Crypto Sponsorship for the AFL - and now NFTs

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Chief

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One thing I've not really learned about is flash loans.

From reading one explainer article, I cannot see how they are anything more than a new way to trade nothing.


Is any of that article wrong?

"Perhaps the most popular use of flash loans is to try and scalp a profit to take advantage of small arbitrage discrepancies in different types of crypto across various exchanges. Again, within the traditional lending model, there likely wouldn’t be time to take advantage of those discrepancies. But flash loans make it possible."

How is this not just shuffling money around the pyramid?

This is entirely separate from the idea that you can make money from crypto. People make money from Amway too.

What is the end goal of crypto? Has anyone, say, borrowed 2,000 bitcoin to buy a container ship? Anything like that?

Staking tokens for these products seems to just be taking part in the shuffling for a tiny fee.

What is being created?
 

LongBombFromOutside50

Club Legend
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How do they know?
All transactions are public. Here is an old report on illicit flows into bitcoin (there is probably a newer one)

The "bitcoin is used for illegal activities" claim has ben debunked time and time again.
I guess fiat, on the other hand, is never used for illegal activities?
 

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LongBombFromOutside50

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Nov 13, 2001
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One thing I've not really learned about is flash loans.

From reading one explainer article, I cannot see how they are anything more than a new way to trade nothing.


Is any of that article wrong?

"Perhaps the most popular use of flash loans is to try and scalp a profit to take advantage of small arbitrage discrepancies in different types of crypto across various exchanges. Again, within the traditional lending model, there likely wouldn’t be time to take advantage of those discrepancies. But flash loans make it possible."

How is this not just shuffling money around the pyramid?

This is entirely separate from the idea that you can make money from crypto. People make money from Amway too.

What is the end goal of crypto? Has anyone, say, borrowed 2,000 bitcoin to buy a container ship? Anything like that?

Staking tokens for these products seems to just be taking part in the shuffling for a tiny fee.

What is being created?

A digital technology which has multiple use cases, some of which I’ve mentioned in this thread.

Something that everyone in this thread who is still alive will most likely be using in some way in 10 -20 years time, whether they like it or not.

Many people who weren’t forward thinkers were also calling the internet a scam in 1998…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Chief

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A digital technology which has multiple use cases, some of which I’ve mentioned in this thread.

Something that everyone in this thread who is still alive will most likely be using in some way in 10 -20 years time, whether they like it or not.

Many people who weren’t forward thinkers were also calling the internet a scam in 1998…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes you've mentioned use cases, and from what I can see those three or four are nothing you can't do in other ways more efficiently.
 

LongBombFromOutside50

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I do want to talk more about this but I'd guess crypto people are a bit sick of defending it.

But this is Dan Olson talking about the toxicity of crypto.



Something that hadn't registered is the fact that if crypto "wins", then our children will be the late adopters. They'll be locked into buying off the holders at increasing prices. The value of their work and output will deflate rapidly.

It's a system for sending as much money to the top of the pyramid as quickly as possible. Across generations, if it succeeds.

Of course the top end of town who control the AFL are spruiking it.

Sounds very similar to... the Australian housing market. Ironically it weren't for crypto I would still be a slave to the financial system and paying off a huge mortgage like just about everyone else I know
 

LongBombFromOutside50

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Yes you've mentioned use cases, and from what I can see those three or four are nothing you can't do in other ways more efficiently.
I've just gone through every post in this thread, and there are many use cases that were raised by me and a few others.

It's clear that no amount of debunking will change your pre-conceived opinion of the space though, and the main thing I gather from this thread indicates that the majority of people have NFI about the space beyond mainstream news articles.
 

Chief

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Anyway - I will have a look again and list them out and have a look at each one.

And no, I don't have a lot of direct experience but every time I read something it seems to get more slippery.
 

Scotland

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This isn't true, by the way.

There is plenty of dodgy stuff going on but the companies you buy shares in create things. They provide goods and services. They have assets. They employ people.

In comparison cryptocurrency is nothing but a hope someone will pay you more than you paid.

I see there are banks or whoever trying to get trading funds set up. Trading of nothing based on nothing.

They (companies) are also heavily regulated. Dogecoin was created as a joke and has a market cap of $17b USD which is about the same as Coles or Newcrest Mining if you factor in the exchange rate. Good luck creating a company out of thin air that produces nothing and getting a $17b market cap.
 

Chief

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Sell $300m in NFTs, generate $180m in fees.


How can this ever work?

Shouldn't people be falling over themselves to get in on the Bitcoin bonds?


He wants about a billion $US to buy Bitcoin and build mining rigs?

In November, Bukele had said half of the $1 billion raised for the bitcoin bond would be used to purchase more bitcoin, while the other half would be used for energy and bitcoin mining infrastructure.
Can he do this via the blockchain? He wants cash to buy Bitcoin... why not just do some sort of defi thing and get the coins directly?
 
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WillHayward

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In your opinion, perhaps. But the fact that millions of people are using the technology says otherwise. There are many benefits to blockchain as a tech (which people with knowledge of the space are aware of), but that's more for the cryptocurrency board and not really the purpose of this thread.

Love how you say you have some (secret knowledge) in brackets. Classic.

Do you honestly believe you know more about how global digital transactions work than experts who actually work at places like visa etc??
 

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WillHayward

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The whole ape thing is so ridiculous I actually have no words.

But I guess I'm a dumb boomer who doesn't understand "the future".

(P.s. I'm not a boomer but humour me)
 

WillHayward

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Not that I've seen. It would indeed be interesting to see a break down.
Regardless though, even IF NFTs are the main source of fees, I think you'll find the use cases of NFTs will evolve rapidly over the next 10 years. Digital assets are here to stay and won't just be confined to collectibles and art, it wouldn't surprise me if ownership of sports/concert tickets are verified through NFTs for example.


Not true. This only applies to proof of work blockchains (i.e. only bitcoin). Proof of stake chains are not damaging to the environment.
Plus since all bitcoin mining was banned in China last year, 59% of bitcoin is now mined with clean energy (ref Bitcoin mining council's latest report).


Up until 2013 maybe. Since then, this has been debunked over and over and the use cases of crypto and blockchain as a whole have evolved (as I pointed out earlier). Could only find info from 2019, which states that a mere 0.5% of bitcoin transactions were used for the dark web.

I'd imagine this would be much much lower now.
Transactions???

What transactions?

Your stat is probably correct.

99.5% of "transactions" are folk buying and selling on exchanges..

Folks buying and selling on an exchange is NOT a "transaction".
 

WillHayward

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Poster clearly has no comprehension of a digital asset. The DEFI apps currently running on Ethereum completely dismantle the argument. Let alone the play to earn NFTs etc.

Most posters in this thread showing their age and know nothing about the space.
Ethereum has zero use and anyone who knows "the space" knows this.

It's a scam.
 

LongBombFromOutside50

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Love how you say you have some (secret knowledge) in brackets. Classic.

Do you honestly believe you know more about how global digital transactions work than experts who actually work at places like visa etc??

Lol you might want to reread my initial post, several times over. Because you've clearly misunderstood it.
 

WillHayward

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Crypto is kind of a doomsday cult for the capitalist age.

"We have a deeper understanding of the universe and of the future than ordinary plebs.
Join us and you will get salvation and heaven. Ignore us and be damned".
Lol you might want to reread my initial post, several times over. Because you've clearly misunderstood it.
Yep cos I'm too dumb to understand.
Only the chosen ones can see "the future".

Reminds me of Avon ladies
 

md20

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Crypto is kind of a doomsday cult for the capitalist age.

"We have a deeper understanding of the universe and of the future than ordinary plebs.
Join us and you will get salvation and heaven. Ignore us and be damned".
Yep cos I'm too dumb to understand.
Only the chosen ones can see "the future".

Reminds me of Avon ladies
Are you okay?
 

BIRDBRAIN

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Transactions???

What transactions?

Your stat is probably correct.

99.5% of "transactions" are folk buying and selling on exchanges..

Folks buying and selling on an exchange is NOT a "transaction".

I really don't know what possesses people to get all worked up about something they clearly know nothing about and then post things that are 100% wrong as if they are fact..
 

Chief

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BIRDBRAIN Nassim Taleb kind of knows what he is talking about:


In a paper titled, “Bitcoin, Currencies, and Bubbles", Taleb opined: “In its current version, in spite of the hype, bitcoin failed to satisfy the notion of “currency without government" (it proved to not even be a currency at all), can be neither a short or long term store of value (its expected value is no higher than 0), cannot operate as a reliable inflation hedge, and, worst of all, does not constitute, not even remotely, a tail protection vehicle for catastrophic episodes."

Explaining his view that why bitcoin is worth exactly zero, Taleb said that gold and other precious metals are largely maintenance-free, do not degrade over a historical horizon, and do not require maintenance to refresh their physical properties over time. “Cryptocurrencies require a sustained amount of interest in them," the author of several well-regarded books on finance wrote in the paper, which was published on his blog on Sunday.

Can you see why people trust the Talebs of the world more than a white paper from a crypto exchange or defi startup?

On bitcoin’s failure as a currency, Taleb said, 12 years into its life, in spite of the fanfare, there are currently no prices fixed in bitcoin, floating in fiat in currencies in the economy.

He talks about non-yielding assets. You may say, I can stake my Eth and get a return. But the return is purely from crypto transactions. I can't find anything that shows anyone buying and selling non-crypto "assets" with crypto and giving a return down the line.

Of course I'm no expert but you would think this would be trumpeted from the rooftops. Wheat futures pegged in crypto? No. Heavy machinery sales contracted in crypto? No.
 

BIRDBRAIN

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You don't buy wheat futures or heavy machinery with gold bullion either. You don't buy them with apple stocks either. This is where newbies fall into the circular logic, they just can't get passed the 'currency' bit in the name. I couldn't care less if I can buy a cup of coffee or a tractor with bitcoin or not. Crypto is never going to replace fiat, the value of crypto goes up BECAUSE it is priced in fiat which is printed by central banks at a meteoric rate. Bitcoin and Ethereum are scarce assets backed by vast and powerful computer networks, they aren't printed out by governments and given out to all and sundry and they cannot be controlled or stopped by governments without using extreme measures.

Just look at the inflation we are now suffering thanks to all this rampant money printing, now we have to suffer a global recession as they will attempt to momentarily stop kicking the can down the road, before they realise the pain is too much and they start the printers back up again. Crypto is literally freedom from government violence yielded in the form of fiat to control everyone and keep them working longer and harder for an ever decreasing slice of the pie.

It's alright for you chief, kicking back on a footy forum while these invasive ads fill up your coffers, the every day folk actually slave long and hard to earn these dollars which are devalued every day and can barely cover their basic living expenses. The poor are being robbed blind while the rich kick back as government printed fiat pump their asset prices to the moon and back. Now we're at the top and the rich can hedge while the poor will pay the price yet again. 50 people lining up to apply to overpay for a rental property that resembles a soviet toilet block is the new normal. And you think crypto is a problem? Crypto is bringing people out of poverty, fiat is putting people into it.
 

LongBombFromOutside50

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BIRDBRAIN Nassim Taleb kind of knows what he is talking about:




Can you see why people trust the Talebs of the world more than a white paper from a crypto exchange or defi startup?



He talks about non-yielding assets. You may say, I can stake my Eth and get a return. But the return is purely from crypto transactions. I can't find anything that shows anyone buying and selling non-crypto "assets" with crypto and giving a return down the line.Of course I'm no expert but you would think this would be trumpeted from the rooftops. Wheat futures pegged in crypto? No. Heavy machinery sales contracted in crypto? No.


In a paper titled, “Bitcoin, Currencies, and Bubbles", Taleb opined: “In its current version, in spite of the hype, bitcoin failed to satisfy the notion of “currency without government" (it proved to not even be a currency at all), can be neither a short or long term store of value (its expected value is no higher than 0), cannot operate as a reliable inflation hedge, and, worst of all, does not constitute, not even remotely, a tail protection vehicle for catastrophic episodes."

Explaining his view that why bitcoin is worth exactly zero, Taleb said that gold and other precious metals are largely maintenance-free, do not degrade over a historical horizon, and do not require maintenance to refresh their physical properties over time. “Cryptocurrencies require a sustained amount of interest in them," the author of several well-regarded books on finance wrote in the paper, which was published on his blog on Sunday.


Are you sure you want to get into a debate between the benefits of bitcoin and gold, Chief? Let's break it down using the foundational properties of money:

SCARCITY:
  • Bitcoin's annual inflation rate currently is 1.8%
  • Gold's annual inflation rate ranges between 1.5% - 2.5%.
  • Bitcoin's supply halves every 4 years however, plus you know exactly how many bitcoins are in existence at one time, unlike gold.
  • Winner: Bitcoin
DURABILITY:
  • Bitcoin is purely digital, so as long as the internet is around, it is more durable than any physical asset.
  • Winner: Bitcoin
ACCEPTABILTY:
  • Bitcoin has been around for 13 years, gold for thousands of years
  • So Bitcoin's acceptability is lower because it is an emerging asset. It's growth in adoption is exponential however
  • Winner: Gold
PORTABILITY:
  • No other payment system in the world can move the amount of value, for as cheap, as digital money. Billions of dollars worth of bitcoin can be moved in minutes for less than a several dollars, without trusting anyone or giving anyone control over it.
  • Winner: Bitcoin
DIVISIBILITY:
  • Bitcoin, being digital, is the most divisible monetary asset in the world, and can divided into 0.00000001. Gold cannot be
  • Winner: Bitcoin
Not to mention other factors - You keep talking about bitcoin apparently being bad for the environment. How about gold, Sir? Do you believe drilling gold mines in the ground and creating poisoned waters, creating solid waste and threatening protected areas and local communities is better for the environment than using energy to mine digitally (~60% odd which is now clean energy)?
 

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