Cryptocurrency mega-thread

[Seeds]

You are right we don't know for "certain". Just like we don't know anything for "certain" really.
All the data we have available so far though suggests that crashes are followed by rises in the market.

This one is a particularly significant one due to the global turmoil and uncertainty due to a whole number of factors.

I however, still believe in the value and potential of the technology, which is why I am confident in DCA buying now (obviously to my level of risk, which is money I can afford to lose, I'm not throwing my life savings all into crypto). It is a diversified investment as part of my greater portfolio which includes other assets.

Can we discuss more about what the potential of the technology is and how we value that?

this isnt a gotcha question. Im generally interested.

 

[Seeds]

imagine if some or all of the banks went under at the same time.....government just going to give us our money back?.......good luck with that

government wants your property.......good luck telling them no or getting fair and reasonable value

one thing we know for certain, governments dont give a s**t about its people, just money and whoever gives them the most

How do all banks go under at the same time in any scenario that doesnt involve the government falling? I can only see war and fall of the government in a scenario where all the banks fall.

 

[Seeds]

Really?

How was it that the Government told my friends family we're taking 30 acres of land off you, it'll destroy your 114 year old business and we will pay you pennies on what the land is actually worth and did we mention your livelihood is now gone?

Is that what you mean by Government protection?

And how about when you bust your gut working only for the Government to steal a bunch of it off you before it even gets to your account. Forgot about that?

There are holes in the law where a very small subset of the population still get screwed. But these arent broadbased as in the crypto example. The government isnt going to one day take everyones houses. There isnt the law to do it and even if there was they will be voted out.

you cant vote out the people controlling your crypto nor is there a law to protect you.

 

[Kanga Commando]

There are holes in the law where a very small subset of the population still get screwed. But these arent broadbased as in the crypto example. The government isnt going to one day take everyones houses. There isnt the law to do it and even if there was they will be voted out.

you cant vote out the people controlling your crypto nor is there a law to protect you.

Admire your ability to stay in this debate.

FWIW I agree with you totally. Scam is an understatement.

 

[Bostonian]

There are holes in the law where a very small subset of the population still get screwed. But these arent broadbased as in the crypto example. The government isnt going to one day take everyones houses. There isnt the law to do it and even if there was they will be voted out.

you cant vote out the people controlling your crypto nor is there a law to protect you.

Who said we want ****wit governments involved in crypto? Maybe we're people who are prepared to take on the added risk v reward.

And actually you can vote on many things on some crypto projects, that's the whole point of the concept of governance in the space. Take the power from the hands of shit lords CEOs and their boards and put it into the hands of the people who hold the native token of that project.

It's funny how you think just because you can vote out a politician that it gives you any such extra freedoms from their thievery.

 

[Bostonian]

Admire your ability to stay in this debate.

FWIW I agree with you totally. Scam is an understatement.

And you don't think the stock markets are full of scams? That politics isn't one big scam?

 

[Bostonian]

How do all banks go under at the same time in any scenario that doesnt involve the government falling? I can only see war and fall of the government in a scenario where all the banks fall.

And how do you see all crypto falling?

Did Polkadot fall when LUNA did?

 

[juss]

Can we discuss more about what the potential of the technology is and how we value that?

this isnt a gotcha question. Im generally interested.

I mean, if you want me to copy and paste a heap of information easily available online. What do you want to discuss about blockchain technology that hasn't been done so 10000x online?

The Future of Blockchain - Market Disruptors' Impact

Right now, someone, somewhere, is creating or testing a blockchain solution to drive innovation and disruption of traditional business models.

www2.deloitte.com

IBM

For more than a century, IBM has been a global technology innovator, leading advances in AI, automation and hybrid cloud solutions that help businesses grow.

www.ibm.com

Why Mastercard is bringing crypto onto its network

By directly supporting select digital assets, we are enabling many more merchants to accept cryptocurrency and giving people more ways to save, store and spend money.

www.mastercard.com

DocuSign and Blockchain

From blockchain-based smart contract prototypes in 2015 to connecting modern Systems of Agreement to blockchain technology today, DocuSign is at the forefront of the blockchain technology wave.

www.docusign.com.au

Web3 on AWS

aws.amazon.com

There's a small collection, a mix of use cases, potential benefits, tech companies opening up to the space.

Personally, I believe the biggest potential lies in smart contracts in future, so my investment focus is on Cryptos that I think leverage that space.

 

[Chief]

imagine if some or all of the banks went under at the same time.....government just going to give us our money back?.......good luck with that

There are mechanisms in place to protect deposits.

It would take an apocalypse to completely wipe everything.

Bitcoin isn't going to save anyone.

 

[Evolved1]

Have you ever held a large piece of gold in your hand?
It drips 'value' like nothing else on earth.
It has inspired avarice for millennia for this reason- everyone who sees it, wants it.

This is also ignoring its incredible usefulness as a metal.

Bitcoin has no appeal whatsoever beyond what it can be exchanged for.

And thats the problem in a nutshell.

It's usefulness is as a currency of exchange not as a store of value so it can either remain a valuable thing with no use or a useful thing with no value- Not both.

Gold is historically a terrible investment. You'd be far better off leaving your money in the stockmarket or bitcoin in any longer timeframe. Looking pretty isn't a precursor to being a good investment, wouldn't you agree?

This drop is fairly typical of crypto cycles in the past, so there's no more reason to think it's going to zero than any time in the past. If anything, I'd say there's more reason to be confident in the future of BTC because of institutional adoption and nations adopting bitcoin.

There are other cryptos that function better as currencies.

It's usefulness as a store of value is based on it having a known finite number, whereas new gold is often found. Uganda has just found 31 million tonnes of gold ore which equates to $13 trillion USD.

 

[Evolved1]

It's going to be a bearish winter for a while I reckon, anywhere up to 6-18 months I think.
I'm still buying though, doing a DCA with a small amount each month for the same assets in my portfolio.

It wont be an easy next 18 months, and that goes for shares and property too. The US Fed isn't projecting any rate cuts until 2024.

 

[Kanga Commando]

And you don't think the stock markets are full of scams? That politics isn't one big scam?

Yep - of course. i agree 100%. Sorry I wouldn't want to sound naïve. CEO's, Directors, Federal Reserve members, and politicians. They will all lie, cheat and steal, and sell their souls at the crossroads - and that applies to left and right alike...

I'm sure even that the politicians even had a hand in allowing the crypto space free reign while they plundered from the unsuspecting. That was the way during the pre-GFC era, and same for the dot-com, same for every other bubble.

My point of contention with crypto is that it is 100% based on the greater fool theory, that there is nothing real behind it, and the lack of auditability should be a warning bell to all... Similar to the argument that Seeds makes, when it is all said and done, at least the USD has the US Navy behind it. Crypto has nothing despite the stablecoin lies.

 

[Evolved1]

Yep - of course. i agree 100%. Sorry I wouldn't want to sound naïve. CEO's, Directors, Federal Reserve members, and politicians. They will all lie, cheat and steal, and sell their souls at the crossroads - and that applies to left and right alike...

I'm sure even that the politicians even had a hand in allowing the crypto space free reign while they plundered from the unsuspecting. That was the way during the pre-GFC era, and same for the dot-com, same for every other bubble.

My point of contention with crypto is that it is 100% based on the greater fool theory, that there is nothing real behind it, and the lack of auditability should be a warning bell to all... Similar to the argument that Seeds makes, when it is all said and done, at least the USD has the US Navy behind it. Crypto has nothing despite the stablecoin lies.

These arguments didn't suddenly become true in 2022.

Why should anyone think crypto is going to zero now as opposed to any time in the past ten years?

What do you mean by stablecoin lies?

 

[Bostonian]

Yep - of course. i agree 100%. Sorry I wouldn't want to sound naïve. CEO's, Directors, Federal Reserve members, and politicians. They will all lie, cheat and steal, and sell their souls at the crossroads - and that applies to left and right alike...

I'm sure even that the politicians even had a hand in allowing the crypto space free reign while they plundered from the unsuspecting. That was the way during the pre-GFC era, and same for the dot-com, same for every other bubble.

My point of contention with crypto is that it is 100% based on the greater fool theory, that there is nothing real behind it, and the lack of auditability should be a warning bell to all... Similar to the argument that Seeds makes, when it is all said and done, at least the USD has the US Navy behind it. Crypto has nothing despite the stablecoin lies.

I own crypto but own zero of anything that's tied to stable coins.

Seems there's a lot of nonsense that comes from people who actually have no idea of the wide and varied crypto projects going on make these blanket statements like there's nothing real behind it.

What about all the crypto projects that are involved in gaming and are already working?

What about the live streaming and music related crypto that are already working?

You can't see the benefits of a blockchain related to the music industry where all the governance sits with the artist and removes the shady record companies?

 

[Deliverance]

Do we own ourselves? Is it just a certain part of ownership you want people to get over or the concept in its entirety?

its an interesting discussion. Deserves a thread of its own.

Haven't thought too much about the body TBH.

More things. Take my house. It will be there long after I depart, as will the land it stands on. I own it outright, but ultimately I'm just looking after it for a while until the next person takes it over.

 

[Kanga Commando]

I own crypto but own zero of anything that's tied to stable coins.

Seems there's a lot of nonsense that comes from people who actually have no idea of the wide and varied crypto projects going on make these blanket statements like there's nothing real behind it.

What about all the crypto projects that are involved in gaming and are already working?

What about the live streaming and music related crypto that are already working?

You can't see the benefits of a blockchain related to the music industry where all the governance sits with the artist and removes the shady record companies?

Blockchain has it's place for sure because blockchain != crypto...

I was a little late to the crypto world. But once I heard about "monkeyjizz" coins, I worked it out pretty quick.

 

[Bostonian]

Blockchain has it's place for sure because blockchain != crypto...

I was a little late to the crypto world. But once I heard about "monkeyjizz" coins, I worked it out pretty quick.

Well that says more about the people you listen to. I don't talk to anyone who is in that space.

Haven't heard anything for a while now about all that low level crap.

 

[Evolved1]

How nice for all these kind folk to come here and enlighten us. Is this white knight syndrome or something?

 

[Kanga Commando]

How nice for all these kind folk to come here and enlighten us. Is this white knight syndrome or something?

I've been here before and was made to feel "most welcome"...

There are a lot of horror stories of losses at the moment...

I really hope no one here loses money.

 

[Seeds]

Haven't thought too much about the body TBH.

More things. Take my house. It will be there long after I depart, as will the land it stands on. I own it outright, but ultimately I'm just looking after it for a while until the next person takes it over.

Yes but our own universe only exists while we are alive. so you can own it for the entirety of your existence.

does a falling tree make a noise if no one hears it?

 

[Evolved1]

I've been here before and was made to feel "most welcome"...

Sarcasm? Why, what did you post that brought on the response?

There are a lot of horror stories of losses at the moment...

I really hope no one here loses money.

That's the nature of the beast. Those who prefer tamer investment and trading vehicles have other options like property or shares. Even then, they're not immune from heavy losses in this economic environment. There's a correlation.

There's also the option to trade both ways. You can make money on the way down too.

 

[Seeds]

Bitcoin is more like digital gold than a currency. One way of determining bitcoins value is to tie it to the cost of production, which can be determined by price of electricity, block reward, mining difficulty and efficiency of miners.

That doesn't mean price can't go below production cost, but it's one way of assigning value.

The market has assigned a non-zero value to bitcoin, so there's buyers who are willing to pay money for them.

The halvening of rewards has generally acted to push price up as bitcoin becomes harder to mine and more scarce. That's the reason why crypto tends to have these bubbles every four years, and is why we're likely to have another bubble.

The naysayers have bee predicting a price of zero throughout the history of bitcoin, and have been wrong every time thus far. I see no reason why this time should be different.

Crypto hasn't been through a recession and period of high inflation before so I'm sure this will be a big test for price. Whether people have an appetite for magic internet beans when they can barely afford to put food on the table is a good question, but I think the current price will look like a bargain in a couple years time. Yes, I'm saying now is the time to hold and buy if you can. Dollar cost averaging now is a smarter play than selling here imo.

You are free to disagree. Time will tell who is right.

The cost of producing something doesnt define value. building bridges to no where costs lots of money but doesnt give the bridges any value.

The price people are willing to pay defines value.

what will make crypto valuable is if governments start adopting it as legal tender and demand to be paid taxes in it.

i dont think this will take hold except in small countries that rely on large foriegn denominated debt. as governments have more power over the cycle when they can control the supply of their own currency. They would be giving up that power if they switch to crypto.

Plus crypto currently isnt liquid and safe enough to be broad money. A new crypto may one day be more liquid but that wont help the value of current crypto currencies. In fact it will doom them.

if crypto ever takes hold it will more likely be central bank controlled crypto. not the current illiquid private crypto markets.

 

[Kanga Commando]

Sarcasm? Why, what did you post that brought on the response?

Informational post only... ( seriously )
And i didn't get beat up - but i should have known better..

 

[Evolved1]

The cost of producing something doesnt define value. building bridges to no where costs lots of money but doesnt give the bridges any value.

True, but it can act as a buffer. If the cost to mine a bitcoin is cheaper than the cost to purchase it, buyers may become miners instead thus reducing buy-side demand.

The price people are willing to pay defines value.

Ok. So you agree the value isn't zero then?

what will make crypto valuable is if governments start adopting it as legal tender and demand to be paid taxes in it.

Good news then. Bitcoin is legal tender in El Salvador.
Texans may be able to pay their taxes in bitcoin soon.

City of Austin Approves ‘Fact-Finding Study’ for Tax Payments in Bitcoin, Crypto

The Texas city will investigate the feasibility of adopting “bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies” with a study due in mid-June.

www.coindesk.com

i dont think this will take hold except in small countries that rely on large foriegn denominated debt. as governments have more power over the cycle when they can control the supply of their own currency. They would be giving up that power if they switch to crypto.

Plus crypto currently isnt liquid and safe enough to be broad money. A new crypto may one day be more liquid but that wont help the value of current crypto currencies. In fact it will doom them.

if crypto ever takes hold it will more likely be central bank controlled crypto. not the current illiquid private crypto markets.

One of the main selling points of crypto is decentralisation. The potential gains in crypto are a factor of it not being 'safe'. If you want safe, put your money in the bank and enjoy 1-2% returns or whatever it is now. If you want more, you have to accept a level of risk.

Risk is continually diminishing, as are returns. Eventually crypto will be safe enough that few people make or lose money. I suppose that's what you want. That's when I'm out.

The order books look fairly liquid to me.

 

[Evolved1]

Informational post only... ( seriously )
And i didn't get beat up - but i should have known better..

I can't really comment without seeing your other posts here.

There are a lot of scams in this space, but you lose me when you say the entirety of the cryptosphere is a scam. It speaks of ignorance.