Science/Environment Culling of Wild Animals

Isaac Cumming No 1

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#26
I'm naive and dumb on every issue. This is why I post at BigFooty.
I was merely explaining where I think the posters coming from.

Partly it's generational. I grew up in a remote town, and shooting was a recreation. Mostly rabbits but I have shot Roos with a station owners family who had a licence to. It was understood that pets would be put down when they got old. My father used to drown female kittens from our cat that we couldn't give away.

In the 90's lived in Katherine a demountable about 15ks out of town. Wonderful place on the river and walking across a dam put you in the middle of nowhere immediately and great fishing.

The agile Wallabies used to sleep in the speargrass and would scare the crap out of me jumping a couple of feet away near the demountable. The station owner offerred to shoot some but I declined, because they do belong. it is, or was at least, legal in the NT north of the tropic of Capricorn to shoot them.

I was also kept awake at night by kangaroo rats scratching under the floor. He offered to shoot them to, but it's not legal as they're threatened.
They are in plague proportions in the area though, possibly because rabbits can live in the top end. In that case I preferred to get used to the noise.
 

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Admiral Byng

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#27
I was merely explaining where I think the posters coming from.

Partly it's generational. I grew up in a remote town, and shooting was a recreation. Mostly rabbits but I have shot Roos with a station owners family who had a licence to. It was understood that pets would be put down when they got old. My father used to drown female kittens from our cat that we couldn't give away.

In the 90's lived in Katherine a demountable about 15ks out of town. Wonderful place on the river and walking across a dam put you in the middle of nowhere immediately and great fishing.

The agile Wallabies used to sleep in the speargrass and would scare the crap out of me jumping a couple of feet away near the demountable. The station owner offerred to shoot some but I declined, because they do belong. it is, or was at least, legal in the NT north of the tropic of Capricorn to shoot them.

I was also kept awake at night by kangaroo rats scratching under the floor. He offered to shoot them to, but it's not legal as they're threatened.
They are in plague proportions in the area though, possibly because rabbits can live in the top end. In that case I preferred to get used to the noise.
I get all of that. Like I said, I have no problems with humans culling herbivorous land animals when their numbers get too high. If you confine herbivores in an enclosed area with no predators they are inevitably going to increase their numbers beyond the available food supply, it's just basic maths. They will breed to a point where their numbers outstrip the local food available and then they will starve and die, but not before they have stripped the land bare. Therefore sometimes culling is necessary. I have no problem with Defence culling horses on their test range property, in fact I would suggest they go further and aim for eradication since they don't belong there in the first place. I'm not going to get all misty-eyed because they are pretty horses.

What I don't get is why the near extinction of crocodiles got a mention in response to my posts. They are not land based herbivores, and they don't fit the scenario just described. Most people regard the protection order on crocodiles and their subsequent recovery as being a success story for the protection of endangered species, and not as some missed opportunity. I don't know where that argument is going, and that wasn't the point i was arguing about.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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#28
I get all of that. Like I said, I have no problems with humans culling herbivorous land animals when their numbers get too high. If you confine herbivores in an enclosed area with no predators they are inevitably going to increase their numbers beyond the available food supply, it's just basic maths. They will breed to a point where their numbers outstrip the local food available and then they will starve and die, but not before they have stripped the land bare. Therefore sometimes culling is necessary. I have no problem with Defence culling horses on their test range property, in fact I would suggest they go further and aim for eradication since they don't belong there in the first place. I'm not going to get all misty-eyed because they are pretty horses.

What I don't get is why the near extinction of crocodiles got a mention in response to my posts. They are not land based herbivores, and they don't fit the scenario just described. Most people regard the protection order on crocodiles and their subsequent recovery as being a success story for the protection of endangered species, and not as some missed opportunity. I don't know where that argument is going, and that wasn't the point i was arguing about.
Fair enough

Parr if the issue is protecting herbivores while historically aggressively trying to exterminate their predators no doubt.

Saltwater Crocodiles are actually a predator of livestock and native herbivores so dont sit well with great white sharks I think. Freshwater crocs eat fish so actually do. Saltwater crocs are a threat to people who enter their environment like great white sharks.

I think the threat argument is drawing a long bow, but it's not always a rational debate.

I do think you'll see culling of Crocidiles in some areas though. The encroachment of people into their territory and the increasing population will create pressure points. The current relocation option in areas around towns is much more expensive than shooting them. It's a fiddle that they're moved to farms and only used as breeding stock anyway. Has anyone ever traced if they end up as handbags?
 
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Seeds

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#29
Killing sharks for attacking humans who knowingly enter their territory is very different from killing an introduced species that destroys habitats for native wildlife. Kangaroo culls are somewhere in the middle.
Why is the ocean near the shore shark territory? Why cant it be our territory? Humans have a lot more fun in the water than sharks do. Sharks, as with most fish, really are just unconscious robots that dont have feelings. Why should we see value in them other than as a means to our own happiness?
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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#30
Why is the ocean near the shore shark territory? Why cant it be our territory? Humans have a lot more fun in the water than sharks do. Sharks, as with most fish, really are just unconscious robots that dont have feelings. Why should we see value in them other than as a means to our own happiness?

Turns out maybe not.
 

_Swoon

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#31
Why is the ocean near the shore shark territory? Why cant it be our territory? Humans have a lot more fun in the water than sharks do. Sharks, as with most fish, really are just unconscious robots that dont have feelings. Why should we see value in them other than as a means to our own happiness?
If you want it to be your territory then go in there and punch them out of the way yourself, mick fanning style.
 

quotemokc

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#32
Source?

Emus are really strange in their behaviour. If stressed and seeking water some members if a flock will "suicide" running into a barb wire fence until they knock it down ir injure themselves fatally. The rest of the flock then run over.
No wonder we lost a war to them.

Seems like the article OP linked seems to be another case of people not wanting things killed with a GUN. (and from a helicopter)

We can go on all the culls we like, but it is not a solution the feral animal problems we have, and I agree to an extent that something needs to be done, but short of a nationwide poison gas that will only kill X animal with an antidote for domestic animals it won't be solved.

Animals that need to be gone from Australian wildlife: cane toads, rabbits, feral cats, feral dogs, wild horses, wild pigs, wild camels, certain fish species and more.

There are so many species ******* with our ecosystem that there really is no actual solution.
 

Boxhead_31

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#33
There are growing calls for aerial shooting to be taken off the table as a way to cull a herd of wild ponies living in the Singleton military area.

Animal welfare groups, politicians and the community are lobbying the federal government to find a better way to manage the situation.

Hunter MP Joel Fitzgibbon and Defence Minister Christopher Pyne’s offices have been inundated with calls from unhappy voters this week.

It comes after Hunter Valley Brumby Association was tipped off about the aerial cull and told it had been scheduled for December 18 and 19.

The Department of Defence says there is not enough feed and water to sustain the 100 to 150 ponies that are living on the Singleton Training Area and aerial control is "a last resort option to ensure training activities are not impacted" and range users and the public remain safe.

Defence blamed the drought for the poor conditions, saying it unsuccessfully attempted to re-home the herd in 2014 and feral animal control was part of its land management activities.


https://www.maitlandmercury.com.au/...e-growing-calls-to-find-a-better-way/?cs=3731

One of many examples going on today. Another being shark culling.

Is it right? Is it wrong? Is there an alternative?
Better for the ponies to have a quick and painless end than starve or die of thirst.

Where I live its not ponies but Kangaroos and Emus that are suffering due to the ongoing drought.
Have never before seen such large numbers of underweight and scrawny looking animals coming into town looking for feed and water.

Is it good for them to waste away till they die or would it be better to harvest them in a quick and painless manner?
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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#34
No wonder we lost a war to them.

Seems like the article OP linked seems to be another case of people not wanting things killed with a GUN. (and from a helicopter)

We can go on all the culls we like, but it is not a solution the feral animal problems we have, and I agree to an extent that something needs to be done, but short of a nationwide poison gas that will only kill X animal with an antidote for domestic animals it won't be solved.

Animals that need to be gone from Australian wildlife: cane toads, rabbits, feral cats, feral dogs, wild horses, wild pigs, wild camels, certain fish species and more.

There are so many species ******* with our ecosystem that there really is no actual solution.
Which is intuitive really. Ecosystems are complex and you cant turn back the clock.
 

Pie eyed

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#36
Yeah, that's what I heard.
I am a former professional shooter from the 70's and 80's and pretty good cook.
Kangaroo is not meat which may, in a long time occupy a very small niche market.
It is tough, grassy and basically "pet food".
It exists on menus due solely to tokenism and for marketing reasons.
It is basically inedible in the domestic landscape.
 

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Geelong_Sicko

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#39
I am a former professional shooter from the 70's and 80's and pretty good cook.
Kangaroo is not meat which may, in a long time occupy a very small niche market.
It is tough, grassy and basically "pet food".
It exists on menus due solely to tokenism and for marketing reasons.
It is basically inedible in the domestic landscape.
Damn, I've had stuff marketed as 'kangaroo' meat (I never saw it slaughtered and sliced so I can't vouch for it) and it's been tasty enough. I don't know if there's a taste difference between red and grey kangaroo or even if commercialy farmed roo meat is actually wallaby or not. I know the age factor is key (see the difference between mutton and lamb) but beyond that?

All I know is the bit I've had of it tasted alright.
 

Pie eyed

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#42
That and based on my understanding of how unsuitable our land is for most agriculture.
Could you impart a little of this understanding you aspire to edjumecate us mere mortals aboot?
I have 40 years experience killin thangs what done should'nt ortna be here an killin shit what's got ta be too many of.
 

CheapCharlie

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#43
Most feral animals should be killed by any means possible.. including aerial.
The cost of these introduced species is too damaging for the local aninal populatuon and flora.
Cats
Foxes
Rabbits
Horses
Donkeys
Goats
Pigs
Camels
Buffalo

None have any place... make a pet food industry out of them.

Cats are the worst. Feral cats have no redeeming features.. and even domesticated cats have no place in Australia
 

Pie eyed

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#44
Damn, I've had stuff marketed as 'kangaroo' meat (I never saw it slaughtered and sliced so I can't vouch for it) and it's been tasty enough. I don't know if there's a taste difference between red and grey kangaroo or even if commercialy farmed roo meat is actually wallaby or not. I know the age factor is key (see the difference between mutton and lamb) but beyond that?

All I know is the bit I've had of it tasted alright.
I can tell you I am a good cook, and an ex-professional shooter,(who gave up my guns a long time ago, well documented in many threads) who has spent a truly goodly amount of time trying to eat what I kill/killed.
I fish an extraordinary amount but rarely keep what I catch.

If Kangaroo was edible I would eat it.
It is sold for human consumption solely to make people feel better about killing them.
It is dry. without fat, but not in a way which makes it healthy, just shit and hard to cook.
If you like the taste of your mowers grass catcher then go for you life.

Kangaroo is the perfect example of people eating shit due to guilt and then pretending they enjoyed it.

I am an anonymous internet poster...why would I lie to you?
WTF do I have to gain from giving you a false impression?


Look at my posting on any subject....
 

Geelong_Sicko

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#46
I can tell you I am a good cook, and an ex-professional shooter,(who gave up my guns a long time ago, well documented in many threads) who has spent a truly goodly amount of time trying to eat what I kill/killed.
I fish an extraordinary amount but rarely keep what I catch.

If Kangaroo was edible I would eat it.
It is sold for human consumption solely to make people feel better about killing them.
It is dry. without fat, but not in a way which makes it healthy, just shit and hard to cook.
If you like the taste of your mowers grass catcher then go for you life.

Kangaroo is the perfect example of people eating shit due to guilt and then pretending they enjoyed it.

I am an anonymous internet poster...why would I lie to you?
WTF do I have to gain from giving you a false impression?


Look at my posting on any subject....
I don't disbelieve you. Just saying I had a good bit. Fat Yak reckons the younger ones taste pretty good.
 

Run n Spread

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#47
Shark culling is absurd.

I don't know enough about the ponies.
Well some of us like a swim in shallow water @ waste deep on a 40 degree 99.99% humidity day. And the sharks are coming in due to global warming.

So yeah don't really feel like been the first case off the bat for a test case.
 

nicky

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#48
Well some of us like a swim in shallow water @ waste deep on a 40 degree 99.99% humidity day. And the sharks are coming in due to global warming.

So yeah don't really feel like been the first case off the bat for a test case.
I like swimming in beautiful beaches too but this shark territory.
 

nicky

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#49
Most feral animals should be killed by any means possible.. including aerial.
The cost of these introduced species is too damaging for the local aninal populatuon and flora.
Cats
Foxes
Rabbits
Horses
Donkeys
Goats
Pigs
Camels
Buffalo

None have any place... make a pet food industry out of them.

Cats are the worst. Feral cats have no redeeming features.. and even domesticated cats have no place in Australia
Inside cats are great.
 
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