Curnow and Ginnivan.

[Reg Grundy35]

Has there ever been a better case study than yesterday to demonstrate that umpires run out there with preconceived decisions about who will and won't get frees? Queue all the usual blather about Ginnivan getting what he deserves - Selwood proved that was BS. The umps now seem too scared to give him obvious frees - he literally cannot get any regardless of how blatant. He is now at physical risk and some think that legitimate. How the hell can games be adjudicated like that? Then Curnow gets 6 - basically one for every marking contest he was in - whether there was any contact or not. I'm sure there are other examples of umpires stereotyping individuals - Weightman, Hawkins come to mind. Of all the complaints that we have about umpiring surely this is the biggest? I don't believe they cheat or the AFL tells them what to do - thats conspiracy crap. But somethings wrong.

 

[Rob]

Look, I don't mind umpires using past behaviour as an indicator in their decisions. It's a tough gig, and trying to pick up whether there was a duck or an arm lift is hard when it all happens in a split second. And if players consistently use those techniques to wrongfully draw high contact then it's fair for umpires to simple assume that player has done that whenever they draw high contact. That has the double whammy benefit of providing a disincentive for players to try that s**t. Message to Ginnivan - stop ******* playing for free kicks and eventually he'll lose that reputation.

I totally agree with you about Selwood though, it used to drive me nuts to see the umps fall for his ducking time and time again when every single person watching knew what happened. Why the differing treatment? No idea.

 

[The Hobo]

Has there ever been a better case study than yesterday to demonstrate that umpires run out there with preconceived decisions about who will and won't get frees? Queue all the usual blather about Ginnivan getting what he deserves - Selwood proved that was BS. The umps now seem too scared to give him obvious frees - he literally cannot get any regardless of how blatant. He is now at physical risk and some think that legitimate. How the hell can games be adjudicated like that? Then Curnow gets 6 - basically one for every marking contest he was in - whether there was any contact or not. I'm sure there are other examples of umpires stereotyping individuals - Weightman, Hawkins come to mind. Of all the complaints that we have about umpiring surely this is the biggest? I don't believe they cheat or the AFL tells them what to do - thats conspiracy crap. But somethings wrong.

All Selwood proves is that the umpires, MRO and the industry itself is heavily influenced by the media.

From the get go, the media ran with the narrative that Selwood was a tough as nails player, a leader etc etc. Umpires take that onboard, and he gets all the leeway in the world. His entire career, he was ducking, shrugging tackles upwards and nobody in the media said boo whilst he racked up the free kicks. (He was also a very very good player mind you). He is far from the only one. As a Port fan, Shuey is the one that sticks out to me for obvious reasons, but there are many more. That upper cut action to draw a tackle high is infuriating for me to see.

Ginnivan took it to the next level, but the media called him out on it - and the AFL clarified the interpretation, and umpires treat him differently due to his reputation.

The media's darlings always get well looked after and treated differently to Joe Bloggs.

Having said all that, and not being able to go back in time to change history and give the same treatment to Selwood and others, I like the umpires stance. If you are trying to constantly fool the umpires, they will err on the side of caution and not pay a free if they're unsure. The video of him actually training to draw high contact is damning - and it's not where we want the game to go. You reap what you sow, and this is a classic case of it.




Now on to Curnow - if some of our other big forwards got the protection he got, we would have a lot of >100goal scoring forwards every year. I have no explanation for it. I hate how inconsistently the big forwards are umpired. Again, Charlie constantly has two blokes hanging off him at every contest and the umpires give him nothing.

I believe the rules itself is a big factor for this. The over the shoulder free kick when a defender spoils the ball is one thing I absolutely hate. Defenders can't do much these days to stop a forward from marking, You can't touch their arms, you can't touch their shoulders - it's becoming like netball.

 

[HTPunter]

All Selwood proves is that the umpires, MRO and the industry itself is heavily influenced by the media.

From the get go, the media ran with the narrative that Selwood was a tough as nails player, a leader etc etc. Umpires take that onboard, and he gets all the leeway in the world. His entire career, he was ducking, shrugging tackles upwards and nobody in the media said boo whilst he racked up the free kicks. (He was also a very very good player mind you). He is far from the only one. As a Port fan, Shuey is the one that sticks out to me for obvious reasons, but there are many more. That upper cut action to draw a tackle high is infuriating for me to see.

Ginnivan took it to the next level, but the media called him out on it - and the AFL clarified the interpretation, and umpires treat him differently due to his reputation.

The media's darlings always get well looked after and treated differently to Joe Bloggs.

Having said all that, and not being able to go back in time to change history and give the same treatment to Selwood and others, I like the umpires stance. If you are trying to constantly fool the umpires, they will err on the side of caution and not pay a free if they're unsure. The video of him actually training to draw high contact is damning - and it's not where we want the game to go. You reap what you sow, and this is a classic case of it.




Now on to Curnow - if some of our other big forwards got the protection he got, we would have a lot of >100goal scoring forwards every year. I have no explanation for it. I hate how inconsistently the big forwards are umpired. Again, Charlie constantly has two blokes hanging off him at every contest and the umpires give him nothing.

I believe the rules itself is a big factor for this. The over the shoulder free kick when a defender spoils the ball is one thing I absolutely hate. Defenders can't do much these days to stop a forward from marking, You can't touch their arms, you can't touch their shoulders - it's becoming like netball.

Lol all this conspiracy s**t when ultimately Selwood played majority of his career in an era where drawing high tackles was still high, while Ginnivan has only played in a time where this has been adjudicated differently.

 

[HTPunter]

Has there ever been a better case study than yesterday to demonstrate that umpires run out there with preconceived decisions about who will and won't get frees? Queue all the usual blather about Ginnivan getting what he deserves - Selwood proved that was BS. The umps now seem too scared to give him obvious frees - he literally cannot get any regardless of how blatant. He is now at physical risk and some think that legitimate. How the hell can games be adjudicated like that? Then Curnow gets 6 - basically one for every marking contest he was in - whether there was any contact or not. I'm sure there are other examples of umpires stereotyping individuals - Weightman, Hawkins come to mind. Of all the complaints that we have about umpiring surely this is the biggest? I don't believe they cheat or the AFL tells them what to do - thats conspiracy crap. But somethings wrong.

They’re doing it for Ginnivans own good. They don’t want his brain mushed in 30 years so don’t reward him for it and he’ll put himself less at risk. Great stuff.

 

[HTPunter]

Lindsay Thomas was probably the first to get “umpired differently” and fair enough too, even though he was still within the rules of the time it’s not what you want to encourage.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

They’re doing it for Ginnivans own good. They don’t want his brain mushed in 30 years so don’t reward him for it and he’ll put himself less at risk. Great stuff.

BS. they wouldn't give two s about him.

 

[naysayer]

BS. they wouldn't give two s about him.

The guy milked it for all it was worth, and now they don't give him free kicks anymore?

My heart bleeds for him.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

The guy milked it for all it was worth, and now they don't give him free kicks anymore?

My heart bleeds for him.

fair enough. felt the same way about Puopolo? thought not.

 

[RAPPA]

You reap what you sow. And spare me the rubbish comparisons with Curnow and Selwood. Selwood at least, for one, had runs on the board in the sense of actively fighting the win the ball. Second, he didn’t make it his MO to milk free kicks from the outset. Ginnivan, like Weightman, have made their respective beds.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

You reap what you sow. And spare me the rubbish comparisons with Curnow and Selwood. Selwood at least, for one, had runs on the board in the sense of actively fighting the win the ball. Second, he didn’t make it his MO to milk free kicks from the outset. Ginnivan, like Weightman, have made their respective beds.

Right mate. Looks like the Blues have found one of their own from what we saw the other night. I guess that was different too?

 

[RAPPA]

Right mate. Looks like the Blues have found one of their own from what we saw the other night. I guess that was different too?

Fisher squibbed. I don’t deny it. It’s a $hit football action and didn’t deserve a free kick. But Ginnivan and Weightman are the front runners and are paying the price for their acting as opposed to concentrating on playing football.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Not sure what the issue is here.

Ginnivan earned a reputation from the very beginning of putting a ton of mayo on every piece of contact he received, so now umpires are giving the opponent the benefit of the doubt.

Not in any nasty "Duh huh let's watch him pummeled and smashed to teach him a lesson" kind of way.....just in a "Well we got sucked big time by this bloke before, let's err on the side of letting it go".

 

[ZionMig22]

Fisher from Carlton has the ability to gain free kicks with his ducking and diving ability

Had at least 3 on Friday night

 

[freddy mercury]

Ginni started his career with a legacy that will last until he retires and that is he's a flop. Start as you intend to go on

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Not sure what the issue is here.

Ginnivan earned a reputation from the very beginning of putting a ton of mayo on every piece of contact he received, so now umpires are giving the opponent the benefit of the doubt.

Not in any nasty "Duh huh let's watch him pummeled and smashed to teach him a lesson" kind of way.....just in a "Well we got sucked big time by this bloke before, let's err on the side of letting it go".

Didn't worry them that they got sucked in by your ex-skipper every single week for a decade.but there you go

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Fisher from Carlton has the ability to gain free kicks with his ducking and diving ability

Had at least 3 on Friday night

Don't be silly its only Ginnivan and Weightman. Apparently they invented it.

 

[ZionMig22]

Don't be silly its only Ginnivan and Weightman. Apparently they invented it.

I get your point mate LOL

Plenty of others who consistently get those calls

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Dylan Moore

13

Dylan Moore

Age

24

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.1

2star

HB

6.7

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

cops it just as much as ginnivan, but he doesn't sook about it

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Lachie Hunter a prime example of a player who is/was a serial ducker but with the change in interpretation has adapted. He still frequently ducks into tackles and his opponents being wary of suspensions and free kicks go half arsed at it which allows him to wriggle out and break free. He used to go down like he'd been shot any time there was an iota of contact. Sometimes they get paid and he happily goes back to his mark for a free.

Fisher for us, when in poor form drops the knees... But much like Ginnivan, I look on with complete embarrassment. It's weak as piss and against the spirit of the game imo, and frankly don't like watching it.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Dylan Moore cops it just as much as ginnivan, but he doesn't sook about it

give us one example of Ginnivan complaining about not getting frees? He doesn't

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Lachie Hunter a prime example of a player who is/was a serial ducker but with the change in interpretation has adapted. He still frequently ducks into tackles and his opponents being wary of suspensions and free kicks go half arsed at it which allows him to wriggle out and break free. He used to go down like he'd been shot any time there was an iota of contact. Sometimes they get paid and he happily goes back to his mark for a free.

Fisher for us, when in poor form drops the knees... But much like Ginnivan, I look on with complete embarrassment. It's weak as piss and against the spirit of the game imo, and frankly don't like watching it.

so how come there aren't 500 threads about him?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

so how come there aren't 500 threads about him?

Because Hunter wasn't out there teaching his teammates how to duck for frees at a public training nor was he accentuating it to the point where it looked more like some sort of Kung Fu technique than a shrug of the shoulders to get a high tackle.

I'm not sure I'd be able to find it without some deeper digging but I remember last year there was a play where Ginnivan got the ball in the forward 50, looked to see if there was an avenue to goal or an open teammate and instead of trying to dish it off to someone he turned away from goals and ran straight at an opposition player and then dropped into the tackle and did his silly looking arm sling into it for a free.

Was absolutely embarrassing.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Because Hunter wasn't out there teaching his teammates how to duck for frees at a public training nor was he accentuating it to the point where it looked more like some sort of Kung Fu technique than a shrug of the shoulders to get a high tackle.

I'm not sure I'd be able to find it without some deeper digging but I remember last year there was a play where Ginnivan got the ball in the forward 50, looked to see if there was an avenue to goal or an open teammate and instead of trying to dish it off to someone he turned away from goals and ran straight at an opposition player and then dropped into the tackle and did his silly looking arm sling into it for a free.

Was absolutely embarrassing.

be great if you could find it. otherwise sounds a bit like the usual Ginnivan bullshit that people dream up.

 

[Whiskers]

Is there a club with more whinging fans than Collingwood? I’m not sure, they are just precious little victims.
Whataboutism is as strong as ever.
Also accept DeGoey did a bad act and get on with it.