Current Best XI Combined Aust/NZ side

[Maybe Tomorrow]

fu** that, Russell is certainly yours to have. Jeff you can have back. He played for South Australia. His brother was Martin Crowe.

Yeah mate, I know who Jeff Crowe is. Bloody hell.

 

[footyfan1978]

Yeah mate, I know who Jeff Crowe is. Bloody hell.

fecking Kewis

 

[magpiemaniac44]

Is Starc still considered a top ten in terms of results recently?
Best Aussie pace bowlers probably Cummins, Pattinson, Jhye Richardson, Hazelwood. Starc and now it off season forget some of others that I should remember. Behrendorff I rate but he always injured. We probably got 4 worthy of top ten and maybe Kiwis with 2. Pattinson is stiff to have selectors keep picking Starc ahead of him in recent times. I think he would be rated higher if he played more Tests.

Boult, Jamieson, Southee, Wagner, Cummins, Hazlewood

 

[footyfan1978]

Boult, Jamieson, Southee, Wagner, Cummins, Hazlewood

I not picking Southee before Pattinson

 

[PhatBoy]

I not picking Southee before Pattinson

He’s played 21 matches over 10 years and his average is only 1.9 lower than Southee’s.

im not taking anyone with 21 tests averaging 26.5 over another player with four times as many tests and four times as many wickets and an average only 1.9 higher

 

[footyfan1978]

He’s played 21 matches over 10 years and his average is only 1.9 lower than Southee’s.

im not taking anyone with 21 tests averaging 26.5 over another player with four times as many tests and four times as many wickets and an average only 1.9 higher

I am. I picking who are the best bowlers. Not whom has had the better run of getting games. Give me Patto every time over Southee and Starc when Patto available. A shame he had wretched run with back injuries in past but he still top bowler and under used in last season at Test level. Starc should not have been picked ahead of him this season just gone.

 

[PhatBoy]

I am. I picking who are the best bowlers. Not whom has had the better run of getting games. Give me Patto every time over Southee and Starc when Patto available. A shame he had wretched run with back injuries in past but he still top bowler and under used in last season at Test level. Starc should not have been picked ahead of him this season just gone.

he’s been unlucky with injury but even the record he does have is heavily cushioned by figures against West Indies, Sri Lanka and earlier incarnations of NZ.

his average is 32 against India, SA and England. His numbers aren’t eye catching enough for me.

yes players like Shane Bond only played 20 tests or so.

but he also has a strike rate that’s top 5 in history. So you can say ‘well he was SOOOO good in a short time that you can probably safely assume that he would have at least been very good over a long career.’

pattinson’s numbers to me don’t stick out like that.

 

[footyfan1978]

he’s been unlucky with injury but even the record he does have is heavily cushioned by figures against West Indies, Sri Lanka and earlier incarnations of NZ.

his average is 32 against India, SA and England. His numbers aren’t eye catching enough for me.

Numbers are never the be all and end all. I care more about what I see. He I picking before most other pace bowlers in world, when he is available. He impresses me when I seen him more than some other guys that had better run with their bodies. I like guys like Southee, He a good bowler. Just like what I see from Pattinson more and intimidates more. Was dumb to leave him on sidelines last summer and keep playing out of form Starc. Cost us a few Teats imo.

 

[PhatBoy]

Numbers are never the be all and end all. I care more about what I see. He I picking before most other pace bowlers in world, when he is available. He impresses me when I seen him more than some other guys that had better run with their bodies. I like guys like Southee, He a good bowler. Just like what I see from Pattinson more and intimidates more. Was dumb to leave him on sidelines last summer and keep playing out of form Starc. Cost us a few Teats imo.

I get your point but I’m not picking Shai Hope over Dean Elgar even though he looks like a world beater. Pattinson too looks like a fantastic talent and in truth he is a talent and he has some great tools. He’s done very little with them yet really. Through no real fault of his own

 

[Pippen94]

Numbers are never the be all and end all. I care more about what I see. He I picking before most other pace bowlers in world, when he is available. He impresses me when I seen him more than some other guys that had better run with their bodies. I like guys like Southee, He a good bowler. Just like what I see from Pattinson more and intimidates more. Was dumb to leave him on sidelines last summer and keep playing out of form Starc. Cost us a few Teats imo.

Pattinson is the new Brad Hodge or Matthew Elliott or Bryce McGain

 

[footyfan1978]

Pattinson is the new Brad Hodge or Matthew Elliott or Bryce McGain

You take that back.

 

[PhatBoy]

For what it’s worth if you gave me all four of the main Australian quicks at the start of their career and said ‘you can pick any of these guys for 100 tests and they’ll be injury free forever’ I would probably pick Pattinson and Starc first as I believe they were equipped with the best tools to be great but pattinson’s body and starc’s brain have let them both down whereas Cummins
Body after his initial injury issues has been superb and Hazlewood is the smartest of the lot

 

[Maybe Tomorrow]

For what it’s worth if you gave me all four of the main Australian quicks at the start of their career and said ‘you can pick any of these guys for 100 tests and they’ll be injury free forever’ I would probably pick Pattinson and Starc first as I believe they were equipped with the best tools to be great but pattinson’s body and starc’s brain have let them both down whereas Cummins
Body after his initial injury issues has been superb and Hazlewood is the smartest of the lot

Starc has never been the same since the sandpaper scandal, which is telling imo.

 

[magpiemaniac44]

I not picking Southee before Pattinson

If the selectors actually selected Patto he would be just as good if not better than those guys, but they continually pick Starc for no reason what so ever. Hopefully Patto gets the #3 quick spot for the whole summer because he deserves it. Has a knack of getting big wickets.

 

[footyfan1978]

Starc has never been the same since the sandpaper scandal, which is telling imo.

Starc has always had period where he cannot control his swing and loses his line for months at a time. Both before and after sandpapergate. Should always read the signs when he well out of form and leave him out until he gets back in his groove. When he on song he deadly just as Mitch Johnson was but when off it a total liability as Johnson was too. Selectors for some reason, just do not think logically sometimes.

 

[Pippen94]

For what it’s worth if you gave me all four of the main Australian quicks at the start of their career and said ‘you can pick any of these guys for 100 tests and they’ll be injury free forever’ I would probably pick Pattinson and Starc first as I believe they were equipped with the best tools to be great but pattinson’s body and starc’s brain have let them both down whereas Cummins
Body after his initial injury issues has been superb and Hazlewood is the smartest of the lot

Starc has had a fine career

 

[Pippen94]

If the selectors actually selected Patto he would be just as good if not better than those guys, but they continually pick Starc for no reason what so ever. Hopefully Patto gets the #3 quick spot for the whole summer because he deserves it. Has a knack of getting big wickets.

I don't Pattinson had the range of skills of the other guys. His record outside of Australia indicates he struggles off bouncy wickets

 

[PhatBoy]

Starc has had a fine career

Not doubting that. But as someone who is:

- left handed
- extremely tall
- genuinely express pace
- swings the ball naturally

You’d be hard pressed to say he’s made full use of his natural gifts.

like an Ian Bell. Bell had a fantastic career. Won his team an Ashes series, played some great knocks.
Does his output match his talent?
I don’t believe so. I classify Starc the same way.

also in red ball cricket while I guess you could cite his tour overall to Sri Lanka 4-5 years ago as a definitive performance he doesn’t have a lot of spells or efforts that really live long in the memory.

its probably unfair because it was early in his career but what I think of when I think of Test Starc is matches like Perth against SA where in a series decider De Villiers and Amla played him like a club bowler. As I said, that’s unfair because he has had a good career. But there’s not a lot that lives in the memory IMO

 

[Pippen94]

Not doubting that. But as someone who is:

- left handed
- extremely tall
- genuinely express pace
- swings the ball naturally

You’d be hard pressed to say he’s made full use of his natural gifts.

like an Ian Bell. Bell had a fantastic career. Won his team an Ashes series, played some great knocks.
Does his output match his talent?
I don’t believe so. I classify Starc the same way.

also in red ball cricket while I guess you could cite his tour overall to Sri Lanka 4-5 years ago as a definitive performance he doesn’t have a lot of spells or efforts that really live long in the memory.

its probably unfair because it was early in his career but what I think of when I think of Test Starc is matches like Perth against SA where in a series decider De Villiers and Amla played him like a club bowler. As I said, that’s unfair because he has had a good career. But there’s not a lot that lives in the memory IMO

255 @ 27 says otherwise. Remember Starc has shared ball with Lyon, Cummins & Hazelwood so that limits big hauls - think Garner with windies.
Also, wickets in Australia during Starc's career have been the most unhelpful maybe ever.
Amala destroyed Johnson in Perth like nothing but I also remember what Johnson could do on song. I remember Chris Cairns taking long handle to Warne in NZ. All bowlers get collared at some stage.

 

[PhatBoy]

255 @ 27 says otherwise. Remember Starc has shared ball with Lyon, Cummins & Hazelwood so that limits big hauls - think Garner with windies.
Also, wickets in Australia during Starc's career have been the most unhelpful maybe ever.
Amala destroyed Johnson in Perth like nothing but I also remember what Johnson could do on song. I remember Chris Cairns taking long handle to Warne in NZ. All bowlers get collared at some stage.

Those figures say exactly what I said. He’s had a very good career.

Do you honestly think with the gifts he’s been blessed with that he’s gotten the most out of himself?

Mark waugh had a great career. It’s pretty unanimous that if he had Steve’s drive and mental strength he’d have had a better one. Starc surely is in the same boat.

 

[PhatBoy]

Garner didn’t have the pace or swing or angle of Starc either. He was an accurate bowler who obviously got a lot of bounce but he didn’t have the natural tools of holding or to an extent Marshall (Marshall obviously suffered on the height scale but otherwise was naturally quick and moved the ball). I certainly don’t begrudge Starc big hauls of wickets, as you say he’s got two other good quicks to compete with

 

[BGman]

n

c'mon man how does Hazelwood get to bat 9 !!
Weird stat but Boult averages nearly 16 with the bat which is not the worst for a No 11. You'd never guess from his technique, but very often gets a quick 20 for the kiwis
Higher than both Lyon and Hazelwood. But I'd still bat Lyon highest of the 3

c'mon man settle down. I have put the bowlers in no specific batting order. Lyon bats ahead of JH. I have seen Boult swipe some late order runs too.

 

[BGman]

I thought Kiwis were here two or so years ago and do not remember them winning here so not sure they are the best team down under.

Correct. The Baggy Greens flogged em 3-0 last year. In fact the Black Caps have a lamentable record against us on our soil.. winless since 85/86..

 

[BGman]

I am baffled Starc remains in the top 10 given his waning career and ahead of such bowlers as Bumrah, Boult and Ishant.

255 @ 27 says otherwise.

The man has been inconsistent his entire career. His 61 Tests have played out over a decade. His prime asset.. his deadly late in swinging yorker with the new cherry.. is rarely seen any more while he is nowhere near as lethal now polishing off the tail. Lay bets.. a good percentage of his 255 wickets were tailenders.

 

[corbies]

Starc has never been the same since the sandpaper scandal, which is telling imo.

Reverse swing numbers across the world have dramatically decreased since sandpaper which is telling imo.