List Mgmt. Cutting the list to 35 players

[loki04]

I personally think reducing lists and/or getting rid of the rookie programs is very short sighted. Prefer they look to balance the ledger over time Rather than go too hard to early.

Isn't it only a temporary cull till the game/clubs gets back on its feet, so 2021 and maybe 2022?

 

[jackcass]

Isn't it only a temporary cull till the game/clubs gets back on its feet, so 2021 and maybe 2022?

Could be and realistically we’ll always see change but I can’t see the AFL freeing up the purse strings if they get these cost cutting measures implemented.

 

[Finnishpie]

Moore and De Goey Definite Staying but we don't know IF other teams want the Other Players?

In my dream last night Moore signed with Richmond and we kept DeGoey. Sorry to break it first.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Ben Reid should be cut so quickly it's not even up for thought. It's not like it would make a difference, the 5 yearly appearances anyway.

The guy should see it for what it is and just retire this year.

 

[TradeDraft]

In my dream last night Moore signed with Richmond and we kept DeGoey. Sorry to break it first.

I call that a Nightmare not a Dream

 

[whiskeytown]

If the list cut to 35 goes ahead. Irrespective of the players delisted; The club could still retain players at a VFL level... or if that falls over... then even at a suburban level.

Collingwood could partner suburban clubs in a strong Melbourne suburban league and have players and coaching staff employed and playing ‘the Collingwood way’

In the absence of a draft this could even extend to NAB cup kids like Reef who are forced to play senior footy in 2021

Then when the time comes to draw upon players during the season or at seasons end then there are a cohesive pool of players ready to select from.

Shorter lists might spell the end of older players and code hoppers who may decide to go back to their original sport/country... but it probably works going forward beyond 2021

 

[Quicky]

There'll be some good players get the arse across the league. There could be some opportunity in that if we're bold.

 

[magpies42]

How will the AFL look with smaller list sizes?

The AFL is set to change in many ways because of the coronavirus pandemic, including the increasing likelihood of smaller playing lists in 2021

www.afl.com.au

I recommend reading the rest of the article for interest's sake.

It's not to my liking but it seems all but certain that lists will only have 35 permanent players on it next year. I presume clubs will have rights to sign state league players who will receive match payments if they're called up to senior level but all that is yet to be determined.

Collingwood's 2020 senior list:
Primary list: 38
Category A rookie list: 6 (John Noble, Lynden Dunn, Tim Broomhead, Flynn Appleby, Brody Mihocek, Anton Tohill)
Category B rookie list: 3 (Mark Keane, Tom Wilson, Jack Madgen)
Total: 44 + 3 Cat B rookies

Now I'm just guessing here, but I think Category B rookies will be exempt from the cap of 35 players, or else a series of international players and cross-sport athletes' careers will be over and they'll go back to where they came from. It would be very short sighted for the AFL to have clubs cut them all at once.

I think the primary goal of cutting the lists is to remove the rookie list from the AFL, plus a couple extra. I think the rule will be 35 + a top of 3 category b rookies whose salaries are exempt from the cap.

For that purpose, I think Wilson and Keane still have futures at the club (which is good). Madgen is in his third season as a Cat B rookie however, so if the current rules remain in place, he'll need to be promoted to the senior list in 2021 to stay, as Cat B rookies are allowed three years on the list.

Also this is all under the presumption that there will be no 2019 drafts and therefore no list additions, the next drafts not to occur until at least sometime next year.

Out of contract in 2020:
The first few to be looked at. They'll cost nothing the least to move on at the end of the year:

AFL Out of Contract Players in 2023

List of AFL players coming out of contract at the end of 2023.

www.footywire.com

Anton Tohill (Cat A rookie)
Atu Bosenavulagi
Ben Reid
Brody Mihocek (Cat A rookie)
Darcy Moore
Flynn Appleby (Cat A rookie)
Jack Madgen (Cat B rookie - in third year)
Jordan De Goey
Jordan Roughead
Josh Daicos
Levi Greenwood
Lynden Dunn (Cat A rookie)
Mark Keane (Cat B Rookie - expect to be exempt)
Mason Cox
Matthew Scharenberg
Max Lynch
Rupert Wills
Tim Broomhead (Cat A Rookie)
Travis Varcoe

Not OOC in 2020 but may still be at risk:
Brayden Sier (2021) - questions on professionalism and work rate. May be more deserving players for his spot?
Darcy Cameron (2021) - only just joined, but presumably on low wage. Would be expected to stay but not totally immune.
Josh Thomas (2021) - rated highly by Buckley, but not a massively important player. Could command interest elsewhere.
Dayne Beams (2022) - all but certainly on his way out. The sooner he's done with, the better for everybody.
Tom Langdon (2021) - has all year to prove himself right but if my list management time his knee is still cooked, we may have to cut him loose in favour of players who can play.

Safe:
Everybody else I expect, either due to ability, loyalty or recent re-signing.



TASK: Cut 9 players from our senior list and rookie list.

My nine:
11 - Dayne Beams. For the benefit of both club and player. He's the #1 who has to go.
12 - Matthew Scharenberg. Love him dearly, looked to have Clement potential a couple years ago, but it's clear that the coaches prefer others. Think he'll certainly be cut.
15 - Lynden Dunn. Warrior. Deserved to play finals. But the football Gods hate us. Thank you for your service, Lynden.
18 - Travis Varcoe. Thought he was lucky to get a deal last year. Offers too little on field nowadays plus he's injury prone. Thank you for your service Varcs.
20 - Ben Reid. Like Varcoe, very lucky to have gotten a deal. Can't run out more than 3 games in a row anymore. Time to let him go.
29 - Tim Broomhead. Surely this time he's let go of. Super stiff with repeat injuries but we can't keep carrying these players.
31 - Flynn Appleby. Looked very solid early on but becomes a victim of circumstance here. Not sure he has the athletic profile or ability to ever break into our back line permanently.
40 - Atu Bosenavulagi. Unlucky after only one season but he won't be the only stiff one. Would love to keep him but I think others have shown more potential.
45 - Max Lynch. Has been with us for a while and still hasn't come close to playing at AFL level. Reckon there's more deserving players of his spot.

Seems like a short sighted approach. The game will return to normal ahead of other aspects of the economy.

I would prefer to see the AFLW cut.

 

[manicpie]

Seems like a short sighted approach. The game will return to normal ahead of other aspects of the economy.

I would prefer to see the AFLW cut.

I would cut Gold Coast as soon as possible, just a waste of money

 

[left at home]

Seems like a short sighted approach. The game will return to normal ahead of other aspects of the economy.

I would prefer to see the AFLW cut.

That seems short sighted as well

 

[loki04]

Seems like a short sighted approach. The game will return to normal ahead of other aspects of the economy.

I would prefer to see the AFLW cut.

Yeah doesn't seem to be a great move for the game overall, they seem pretty certain of not getting a good broadcast deal on next rights.

 

[Robroy22]

In my dream last night Moore signed with Richmond and we kept DeGoey. Sorry to break it first.

If he goes to Richmond then we'd be getting Rance!

 

[magpies42]

That seems short sighted as well

Perhaps. You’d save more and lose less by cancelling an AFLW season or two. The overhead to run a national women’s competition must be huge. The AFLW players aren’t as financially reliant on it either.

The men’s game covers the costs of AFLW, it would harsh for the men to take a further hit to prop up the women’s comp.

 

[Finnishpie]

Seems like a short sighted approach. The game will return to normal ahead of other aspects of the economy.

I would prefer to see the AFLW cut.

I'd prefer to see the executives and the PR people's wages cut.

Gill M got 1.74 million for 2016. A 20% cut is a joke. Should be 80%.

Then cap player wages at $750,000.

 

[TradeDraft]

If the list cut to 35 goes ahead. Irrespective of the players delisted; The club could still retain players at a VFL level... or if that falls over... then even at a suburban level.

Collingwood could partner suburban clubs in a strong Melbourne suburban league and have players and coaching staff employed and playing ‘the Collingwood way’

In the absence of a draft this could even extend to NAB cup kids like Reef who are forced to play senior footy in 2021

Then when the time comes to draw upon players during the season or at seasons end then there are a cohesive pool of players ready to select from.

Shorter lists might spell the end of older players and code hoppers who may decide to go back to their original sport/country... but it probably works going forward beyond 2021

They should bring back the Reserves

 

[whiskeytown]

They should bring back the Reserves

I agree... but I think the cost cutting now puts a solid line through the afl paying for a national reserves comp

 

[swoop42]

The whole notion of a list "cut" might actually be a misnomer and what will actually occur is that more players will have to be moved to a reserve list and that will be accompanied by a significantly less base wage like we already see with rookie listed players.

In this situation I imagine there will be some mechanism put in place in which those players who find themselves suddenly off the senior list could explore their options elsewhere prior to any possible re-signing.

As I and others have noted previously when you sport is fully body contact and fields a team of 22 each week it would simply be implausible to cut list numbers drastically as a lot of teams could find themselves unable to find 22 fit bodies during stages of season owing to long injury lists.

If the salary cap is set for a dramatic reduction from season 2021 and beyond and this reduction isn't achieved merely by moving players to a reserve list at a lower rate of pay then it's hard not to wonder how it can be achieved without all player contracts being torn up. A one size fits all approach would be the easiest solution seemingly whereby the percentage that the total salary cap is reduced by (or still needs to be reduced by) is then applied at the same rate to every player on the senior list.

With 18 clubs and 38 players minimum required on the senior list I think most would agree the talent pool has been spread to thin for years and club senior lists are clogged with banged up senior players well past their prime and young hopefuls who sadly just aren't likely to make it whether that be because of talent level, continual injury setback or lack of opportunity in the position they play. Being able to move more players in this category to a reserve list in order to save a club money makes sense to me and is a potential positive outcome for the game if you're looking for one.

 

[left at home]

Perhaps. You’d save more and lose less by cancelling an AFLW season or two. The overhead to run a national women’s competition must be huge. The AFLW players aren’t as financially reliant on it either.

The men’s game covers the costs of AFLW, it would harsh for the men to take a further hit to prop up the women’s comp.

Yet the women’s game is the fastest growing sport, nah about time the men to a hit for the women, way over payed.

 

[Kappa]

Yet the women’s game is the fastest growing sport, nah about time the men to a hit for the women, way over payed.

Why not just pay athletes based on how much money they generate?

 

[magpies42]

Yet the women’s game is the fastest growing sport, nah about time the men to a hit for the women, way over payed.

It is normal for something that didn’t exist to outstrip, growth wise, something that has existed for 150 years. Especially if it is bank rolled and is not concerned with turning a profit. AFL players are paid as the market allows, I would argue that they are on average under paid given what they sacrifice and their average career length and career prospects after football.

 

[Albert Parker]

All the talk of Josh Thomas potentially being cut - he's a regular first 22 team member and reliably gets on the park.
He's not Jordan DeGoey for impact, but he's a pretty reliable crumber and shot for goal.
It's a pretty laughable suggestion to list him as a risk of being cut for mine.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The first 6-7 names are pretty easy with some senior players near the ends of their careers and/or long term injured and/or not best 22 and probably would have left at the end of 2020 anyway.

Beams Varcoe Greenwood Reid Langdon Dunn Broomhead.

It wouldnt be hard to fish around for a few younger fringe players to top up that list.

As harsh as it sounds they would only be bringing forward what would have been done in October anyway

 

[Albert Parker]

It is normal for something that didn’t exist to outstrip, growth wise, something that has existed for 150 years. Especially if it is bank rolled and is not concerned with turning a profit. AFL players are paid as the market allows, I would argue that they are on average under paid given what they sacrifice and their average career length and career prospects after football.

Fair point - when the game has a cashflow problem, a fast growing (in terms of viewers and attendance) but cashflow negative business like AFLW is less likely to be invested in further for the time being. AFLW would be a deeply loss generating business given the lack of charging for admission, lack of merchandise sales and lack of memberships sold. Not sure of the media rights position on revenue though.

 

[magpies42]

Fair point - when the game has a cashflow problem, a fast growing (in terms of viewers and attendance) but cashflow negative business like AFLW is less likely to be invested in further for the time being. AFLW would be a deeply loss generating business given the lack of charging for admission, lack of merchandise sales and lack of memberships sold. Not sure of the media rights position on revenue though.

I hope the plan is to make AFLW viable long term. Otherwise you end up in a situation where the men’s game is bank rolling it for all eternity. The game will come under threat from sports like Soccer and basketball as they appear to be gaining popularity, further threats from concussion and changing of rules may push some people away...economic conditions more broadly will have an impact also. As the former treasury Joe Hockey said we should expect a decrease in living standards over the medium to long term. I would hate to see AFL die because of over ambition.

it’s important to have a televised version of AFLW or VFLW for little girls to have something to aspire to, not sure this needs to be at the national level though. There would be some cost savings by eliminating travel. Wage increase demands are laughable.

 

[left at home]

It is normal for something that didn’t exist to outstrip, growth wise, something that has existed for 150 years. Especially if it is bank rolled and is not concerned with turning a profit. AFL players are paid as the market allows, I would argue that they are on average under paid given what they sacrifice and their average career length and career prospects after football.

Nah, what the sacrifice, it’s there job.do everyone does what ever it takes, and yes rookies are not paid hugely, but still what 18year old gets paid what they do. If they fail, most move on quickly like others have to do,
And if they don’t make it, at least they have money behind them. Most do not.
As for the market it’s only the great tv deals that the afl got, that has the clubs who would have no money to spend ridiculous amounts on free agents.
No game no market, no silliness in pay.
As for the women’s game, have the market is women, bet they will like it when they are thrown away, and l bet they will make sure their sons play a different sport.
At the end of the day, there are four major winter sports with a small population, it is not sustainable the way it was going.