Dalrymple leaves the Kennel

Discussion in 'Western Bulldogs' started by Bemoreboyddog, Feb 9, 2018.

Put it out there
  1. maddog37

    maddog37 Premium Platinum

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  2. lachy

    lachy Club Legend

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    Whilst harsher than I would put it, yes he is overated due to a flag without a full analysis of the list that won it.

    He was very good not great and there are and will be better
     
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  3. immortalmike

    immortalmike Brownlow Medallist

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    Do the full analysis and you'll find that over the last 5 years nobody has outperformed him at his picks.
    His first year was a shocker, but as soon as he went full time his performance was far above what his resources should have allowed.
     
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  4. Tommycash

    Tommycash Norm Smith Medallist

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    Fingers crossed this proves true.
     
  5. Mutt

    Mutt Norm Smith Medallist

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    Where you'd rather be....
    It's all very subjective assessing performance of recruiting staff but I'm happier with your assessment of Dalrymple than that of Mattdougie - but both of you can make a case. I think Dalrymple will be hard to replace... but without change the organisation will become moribund. I'd rather have seen some coaching staff changes though to be honest. Good luck Simon and thanks very much for the Bont.
     
  6. lachy

    lachy Club Legend

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    His first 5 years as full time

    Successes
    Clay Smith
    Tory Dickson
    Jake Stringer
    Jack Macrae
    Marcus Bontempelli
    Toby McLean
    Caleb Daniel
    Marcus Adams

    Did not make it

    Michael Tallia
    Daniel Pearce
    Nathan Hrovat
    Josh Pruden
    Matt Fuller
    Declan Hamilton
    Lucas Webb
    Mitch Honeychurch
    Keiren Collins

    Close to making it

    Bailey Dale
    Josh Dunkley
    Bailey Williams

    Rookies

    Lin Jong
    Tom Cambell
    Alex Greenwood
    Jack Redpath
    Mark Austin
    Brett Goodes
    Roarke Smith
    Jordon Kelly
    Daniel Pearce
    Brett Goodes
    Brad Lynch
    Luke Goetz
    Jed Adcock

    This is far and away better than anyone else?
    He has been very good but if your statement held true we would have been the dominant side or a dominant side in the last 3 to 4 years. We were not the dominant side even when we were premiers, just the best is finals making the premiership more heroic.

    Statistically 7 players who made it over the first 5 years 1.4 per year
     
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  7. GetDimmaBack

    GetDimmaBack BigFooty Librarian

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    What happened to Dahl & JJ, lachy?
     
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  8. lachy

    lachy Club Legend

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    Dahl and JJ were in his prior role these are his first 5 years as full time recruiting manager.
    Lachy is a father son. These are non father sons amd non trades added
     
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  9. GetDimmaBack

    GetDimmaBack BigFooty Librarian

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    Uh, the "lachy" I was referring to was you, bro...:D
     
  10. SCRAY72

    SCRAY72 Norm Smith Medallist

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    Was Panos a rookie during this time? Also where is Fletch. He was drafted..
     
  11. stefoid

    stefoid Brownlow Medallist

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    Im sure weve gone over his record before - you would have to agree that he has been improving. His last 5 years or so have been very good. His first 3 or 4 years, as you say, pretty average. We got the inexperienced version and Sydney are getting the mature product. :-/
     

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  12. Mattdougie

    Mattdougie Brownlow Medallist

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    Ok well let’s look at the last 5 and accept that the last two can’t be judged fairly

    That leave three years 2015-2013

    2015 - Collins Lynch Goetz Adcock
    2014 - Hamilton Smith Kelly Pearce Goodes
    2013 - Fuller Honeychurch Goodes

    They are the misses

    The hits are

    2015 - Dunkley Adams Williams
    2014 - McLean Webb Dale Daniel
    2013 - Bont

    Take Bont out of the last three and it’s average and take out Adams and what do you see??? Very similar football players all of them. And I’m being generous on the hits I still don’t know about Webb and Williams.

    He is Clayton Mark 2 and people can’t see it.

    Apart from Adams when was the last time we drafted a decent KP??
    I think you will find it’s DALE MORRIS IN 2004 (Rough is a ruck not a kp)

    Find me another recruiter that has been unable to draft any less than 1 KP in 13 years!!!!!!!

    So no he isn’t a loss at all most blokes reading the numerous phantom drafts could do nearly as well as he has.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  13. lachy

    lachy Club Legend

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    Panos was a rookie in Dals prioi role. Fletch was neither drafted nor a rookie he was a special case
     
  14. TiAn_

    TiAn_ Premiership Player

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    2010 - The only picks he had before 74 were used on Wallis & Libba. Still somehow found JJ & Dahl in the rookie draft. Only useful KPP that was available that he didn’t pick was Jeremy McGovern, who was an unknown that lasted 40 picks in the rookie draft.

    2011 - The best KPPs from our first pick in this draft at 17 onwards were Michael Talia, Todd Elton, Joel Hamling, Jarrad Witts (pure ruckman), Sam Frost, Jack Redpath, Tom Campbell and Fletcher Roberts. Notice anything? Drafts Tory Dickson at 57 and Clay Smith at 17. Roberts taken with last pick in rookie draft. All ended up key contributors to our flag.

    2012 - Drafted Stringer & Macrae. Again, critical to flag. Took Hunter as f/s. Didn’t have another live pick until 50. Only KPP of any use drafted after that point was Matt Taberner in the rookie draft.

    2013 - Drafted Bont. No praise necessary. Perhaps he should have drafted KPP gun Scharenberg instead. Maybe we’d have 2 flags? Next live pick was 42, where he ****** up by drafting Fuller over Barrass & Brown. Should note that every other team also overlooked those players twice.

    2014 - First live pick at 26 and drafted Toby McLean. Also, Webb and Hamilton (spud). Then pulled Daniel & Dale out at 45 and 46. Had secured Cordy with pick 60 heading in. Mitch McGovern taken just before Daniel & Dale. Could have had Oscar McDonald and Dougal Howard instead of either Daniel or Dale. No thanks. Could have had Brayden Preuss in the rookie draft, but we’d just traded for Tom Boyd.

    2015 - Pick 11 is traded down for 25 and 26. Drafts Josh Dunkley (big contributor in our 2016 finals) & Kieran Collins (who’s 20). Then drafts easily the best KPP in the draft at 35 (outside of Weitering, who went #1) in Marcus Adams. Draft is otherwise devoid of useful KPPs.

    2016 - Drafts Lewis Young at 49, a KPP and the youngest player in the league. Unexpectedly debuts and initially performs far better than anyone could have expected. He is literally tracking as the best KPP from that draft atm. Also picked up Tim English with our first.

    2017 - Drafts the best KPP available at our first pick in Aaron Naughton.

    But sure, he’s another Scott Clayton lol. Maybe he shouldn’t have let Joe Daniher slip to Essendon :rolleyes:
     
  15. stefoid

    stefoid Brownlow Medallist

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    he doesnt get the credit for f/s, nor should he get the blame for recycled players - thats the list manager and the coach, not the guy who watches draftees.
    so lets remove Adcock, Kelly and Goodes.

    2013 you cant not give him two gold stars for the cahones to go with bont, particularly with the top dozen being a train wreck for some other clubs. passing ben brown for fuller not one of his finer moments...

    2014 and 2015 were slam dunks, no doubt about it. smashed them.

    I think 2017 has the hallmarks of being another good draft for him, and I have no clue about 2016. Young, NMM and Naughton, in particular, look to me to be an evolution of the traits he looks for in a tall... I wouldnt be suprised if he goes on to pick decent talls for Sydney.

    The question is how much of his talent identification is due to himself and how much to our spotters - we know we have a gippsland connection with Wynd, for instance, that will stay with the club.
     
  16. SCRAY72

    SCRAY72 Norm Smith Medallist

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    Fletch was pre season draft if I remember correctly, I could be wrong.
    What I do remember is in the 2009-2011 drafts apart from Dahlhaus and JJ rookie gems it was slim pickings.
     
  17. bobby2

    bobby2 Club Legend

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    Steve Smith is an awful test batsman if you ignore his centuries, but why dismiss a man's greatest successes when evaluating him?
     
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  18. Mofra

    Mofra Moderator

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    2009 he was part-time, 2010 he was full time.

    In 2010 we got free kicks with Wallis and Libba, Dahl and JJ were his rookie selections. They count.
     
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  19. lachy

    lachy Club Legend

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    Full time with a slightly different role.

    My stated opinion is he is very good at what he has done and does, just not he is clearly the best there is or as immortal mike put it far and away better than anyone else

    I agreed with MD he was overated I disagree with MD he is no good, analysis bares this out
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  20. Randomthoughts

    Randomthoughts Team Captain

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    It’s subjective to our own beliefs and understandings however I think this description demonstrates how good he was with picks available .
    I don’t know who made the decision to trade pick 11 for Dunks and Dad ? We would of secured gun KPP if 11 was retained .
     
  21. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Premiership Player

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    Trampled by the majority.
    All the analysis of recruiting ignores the very basic fact that
    it is what the player brings in terms of personal drive and
    determination once he walks through the front door that
    counts. Then you have the things that are beyond your
    control like injury and how you deal with a new environment
    and a new location.

    It is hard to ignore that our club has become a weird
    version of the Vince McMahon kiss arse club since
    we won the flag which was hardly a shining beacon
    for the WWE going back a few years.
     
  22. scooter600x

    scooter600x Norm Smith Medallist

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    Lewis Jetta

    We rated Howard 14th on our list. The other 13 were all taken in the top 14. The only player taken before our pick we didn't want was Kane Lucas.

    Dalrymple got a tip off from WA about a kid called Fyfe from someone who would know but didn't listen.
     
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  23. Dogs Rule

    Dogs Rule Norm Smith Medallist

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    Six weeks.

    Six weeks until we can actually talk wins and losses again.
     
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  24. dogwatch

    dogwatch Premium Platinum

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    Good debate on the merits of Dalrymple. Especially the research-based stuff. It would be interesting to look at how well/poorly a few of his peers have done over the same period if anyone has time to do the research (say Sydney, Collingwood, Richmond, Adelaide). Every club and every recruiter has a lot of "misses" so it comes down to the ratio of "hits" to picks, what pick numbers they had at their disposal and how good those "hits" actually were (e.g. you could say Dunkley and Bont are both hits but Bont is clearly in a class of his own).

    What has not been discussed much is the fact that there are a few quite wealthy clubs out there (some on their own merits and some because they are bankrolled or supported in other ways by the AFL). Those clubs are continually looking at the not-so-wealthy clubs who have performed well and trying to cherry-pick their best assets.

    So Dalrymple was always a likely target, even if he didn't leave for more money. He would have been sounded out many times over recent years. As soon as he became unsettled it was not going to be hard to prise him loose, especially if the new club could offer a lot of footy department infrastructure to support the role.

    We should be thinking about our other prized assets, especially Bev who has already said that 4-5 years was a likely "Use By" date for him as a coach. He is now in his 4th year at the club so are we ready to see him go? I'm certainly not but we need to think about the possibility.

    I fervently hope we keep him for an extended period (though I'm sure a post-Bev narrative could somehow be constructed to say he was a "dud" coach who "got lucky"). If he does walk away after say 2020 then I very much doubt he'll head back to the Tax Office. I reckon he would end up as head coach at some other club. If that happened there would be a lot of wringing of hands and tearing of hair ("we are a shambles") but we need to understand it's the way footy works these days. At the same time we'll be doing our best to cherry-pick other clubs too (e.g. Bains).

    I still reckon keeping Dalrymple for 10 years is much better than par for well-performed footy department staff.
     
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  25. Yesterday Dog

    Yesterday Dog Rookie

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    We can do that now, actually. 2 from 2. And you know what helps a ratio of wins to losses?Having a gun recruiter and stable staff members.