Dalrymple leaves the Kennel

[Thunderoad]

 

[ossie_21]

Sydney’s recruiting has been extremely good over the last 10-15 years, is Dal even an upgrade? They’ve constantly been in finals & even later picks turn out to be guns such as Hannebery & Parker

View attachment 460573

Saints would have every reason to loathe us if we got him as well. Nothing to do with if he’s good or not, but that would be 3 people poached in recent times.

 

[Mattdougie]

Pinching people from StKilda doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence

 

[cecil]

Pinching people from StKilda doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence

Agree about recruiting, but Bev worked okay! I guess Bains would have a decent inside knowledge of his capabilities.

 

[TiAn_]

Its interesting how some give litle credit to oppo club recruiters for their father sons yet others say our f/s are evidence of Dal being a gun.

Wc have done a good job of recruiting kps. McGovern (rookie who Dal and everyone missed), Barass, Darling.

Essendon have built a good spine (carlisle, hurley, hooker plus Daniher)

Richmond have Jack and Rance (clayton picked duds immediately before them)

Melbourne have.done well with the McDonalds, Hogan and Frawley

Plenty of clubs have recruited kps better.than us before and during Dals time with us.

Sure it might be a strategy to recruit ready made kps but the jury is out with us missing Hu and the questions on Boyd and our new great white hope.

- Rance, Riewoldt, Hurley, Hooker and Frawley were drafted in 2008 or earlier, before Dal had the job;

- Daniher (f/s) and Hogan (priority), he never had access to; and

- Darling and McDonald, he would have had to pass on both Libba & Wallis to draft. Would you seriously advocate that?

These lists full of players he could never have actually drafted just make my point for me, tbh. You have to take his performance completely out of context to say it was poor.

 

[TiAn_]

Pinching people from StKilda doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence

They did recruit Lockett, Leowe, Riewoldt and Heatley while Dal sat on his hands though.

 

[BRWB]

- Rance, Riewoldt, Hurley, Hooker and Frawley were drafted in 2008 or earlier, before Dal had the job;

- Daniher (f/s) and Hogan (priority), he never had access to; and

- Darling and McDonald, he would have had to pass on both Libba & Wallis to draft. Would you seriously advocate that?

These lists full of players he could never have actually drafted just make my point for me, tbh. You have to take his performance completely out of context to say it was poor.

If you read back you will see that i was responding to your point that recruiters can't recruit kps and clubs either fs or trade.them in.

This point that Dal hasn't had the opportunity to recruit talls is simply not correct. If you go back and look you will see two or three good kps drafted after Dals latest picks.every year.
09 was a shocker with Carlisle, Gawn, S Reid, Gunston, Stratton and Crameri missed.
10 dal drafted Schofield at 76 while tbe likes of McGovern and Jenkins went in the rookie draft.
11 we had a bust in Talia at 38 after which Blicsavs and Witts were rookie drafted.
12 we busted with Hrovat at 21 after which Membrey was taken and Prudden at 50 after which Rampe was rookie drafted.
13 was hilarious, we drafted Fuller at 42 and three of the next five picks were Barass, Allir and Ben Brown.
14 we had Hamilton at 39 after which M McGovern, O McDonald, Harris Andrews and Preuss were drafted. From 15 on its hard to say due to long development times for kps.

In short, vitually every year good kps have been taken after a busted Dal pick.

 

[TiAn_]

If you read back you will see that i was responding to your point that recruiters can't recruit kps and clubs either fs or trade.them in.

This point that Dal hasn't had the opportunity to recruit talls is simply not correct. If you go back and look you will see two or three good kps drafted after Dals latest picks.every year.
09 was a shocker with Carlisle, Gawn, S Reid, Gunston, Stratton and Crameri missed.
10 dal drafted Schofield at 76 while tbe likes of McGovern and Jenkins went in the rookie draft.
11 we had a bust in Talia at 38 after which Blicsavs and Witts were rookie drafted.
12 we busted with Hrovat at 21 after which Membrey was taken and Prudden at 50 after which Rampe was rookie drafted.
13 was hilarious, we drafted Fuller at 42 and three of the next five picks were Barass, Allir and Ben Brown.
14 we had Hamilton at 39 after which M McGovern, O McDonald, Harris Andrews and Preuss were drafted. From 15 on its hard to say due to long development times for kps.

In short, vitually every year good kps have been taken after a busted Dal pick.

1. I didnt day he hasn’t hadn’t the opportunity to recruit KPP, in fact in my own posts I noted the KPP he could have drafted but didn’t, most of them you’ve now referred to. He simply hadn’t had the opportunity to recruit the bulk of the players you and our humorously enraged friend Mattie had listed.

2. Howard in 2009 was a shocker. Fuller in 2013 was a shocker. I’ve said that several times. His ratio of shockers is still far better than most. Look at Kinnear Beatson, for example.

3. You’re now judging Dal against all of the league’s other recruiters collectively in terms of KPP. Even then, I’d take Marcus Adams over half of those players.

Asserting that the entire rest of the league being able to identify 1-2 decent KPP each year that were better than a player he drafted earlier is evidence that he’s objectively bad at drafting KPP is at best misguided.

 

[Mattdougie]

Dal was good he wasn’t great

1 above average injury prone KP in his entire stay.

That one sentence means he cannot be rated as great and anyone tgat continues to argue that point is simply now arguing because they can’t accept who disagrees.

I’m more than happy to agree his trading of mids and smalls has been above average but unless the game has changed you do need KPS to play so being great at 50% of your job isn’t great. Although the mediocrity most on here accept day to daytells me that 50% is a high water mark for most of them so I guess that makes sense.

All hail Dal the best 50% of doing your job recruiter EVER! We are not worthy

 

[TiAn_]

If you read back you will see that i was responding to your point that recruiters can't recruit kps and clubs either fs or trade.them in.

This point that Dal hasn't had the opportunity to recruit talls is simply not correct. If you go back and look you will see two or three good kps drafted after Dals latest picks.every year.
09 was a shocker with Carlisle, Gawn, S Reid, Gunston, Stratton and Crameri missed.
10 dal drafted Schofield at 76 while tbe likes of McGovern and Jenkins went in the rookie draft.
11 we had a bust in Talia at 38 after which Blicsavs and Witts were rookie drafted.
12 we busted with Hrovat at 21 after which Membrey was taken and Prudden at 50 after which Rampe was rookie drafted.
13 was hilarious, we drafted Fuller at 42 and three of the next five picks were Barass, Allir and Ben Brown.
14 we had Hamilton at 39 after which M McGovern, O McDonald, Harris Andrews and Preuss were drafted. From 15 on its hard to say due to long development times for kps.

In short, vitually every year good kps have been taken after a busted Dal pick.

If I wanted to make the inverse argument to yours, I’d list every single KPP that we didn’t draft since 2009 that turned out to be crap and conclude that Dal is a genius for not drafting any of them.

It’s an inherently flawed way of judging his performance vis a vis his contemporaries.

 

[bobby2]

If you read back you will see that i was responding to your point that recruiters can't recruit kps and clubs either fs or trade.them in.

This point that Dal hasn't had the opportunity to recruit talls is simply not correct. If you go back and look you will see two or three good kps drafted after Dals latest picks.every year.
09 was a shocker with Carlisle, Gawn, S Reid, Gunston, Stratton and Crameri missed.
10 dal drafted Schofield at 76 while tbe likes of McGovern and Jenkins went in the rookie draft.
11 we had a bust in Talia at 38 after which Blicsavs and Witts were rookie drafted.
12 we busted with Hrovat at 21 after which Membrey was taken and Prudden at 50 after which Rampe was rookie drafted.
13 was hilarious, we drafted Fuller at 42 and three of the next five picks were Barass, Allir and Ben Brown.
14 we had Hamilton at 39 after which M McGovern, O McDonald, Harris Andrews and Preuss were drafted. From 15 on its hard to say due to long development times for kps.

In short, vitually every year good kps have been taken after a busted Dal pick.

09- I don't think anyone is disputing that this year was awful.
10- there were four notable players taken in about 80 live picks after the Schofield pick- Jenkins, gov, JJ and Dahl. Every club clearly had several busts in those 80 picks. Landing one of those four would've comfortably put a recruiter in the top 4 in the league for performance late in that draft. Landing two as we did was nothing short of incredible. The chances of picking one of those 4 at pick 74 was around 4 in 80 (95% chance of failure).
11- blicavz was a cat b rookie, who Geelong signed outside the draft. Collingwood had academy rights to witts. Dalrymple couldn't draft either.
12- if we had recruited rampe or membrey, everyone on here would call them third talls and still bemoan our kpp drafting.
13- no arguments here, that was a bad pick, but bont alone makes this draft a huge success. Most recruiters probably would've gone with Aish/kk/scharenberg. I'll take bont and fuller over one of those three and brown/barrass/aliir every day of the week.
14- if we'd picked one of those talls at 39, we would've picked Hamilton at 45, Dale at 46 and missed Caleb. I wouldn't trade Caleb for any of them.
15- conveniently not assessing Adams to suit your argument. I couldn't care less that he wasn't 18 when we drafted him, and I'm sure nobody at the club could either. In fact, it's better because he didn't need as much development time. We brought in a high quality key defender who suits our gameplan cheaply. Dalrymple deserves praise for that.

Throw in Collins, English, Young, NMM and Naughton and I think you'll find that over the coming years, we'll see some success with our recent KPP drafting.

 

[BRWB]

If I wanted to make the inverse argument to yours, I’d list every single KPP that we didn’t draft since 2009 that turned out to be crap and conclude that Dal is a genius for not drafting any of them.

It’s an inherently flawed way of judging his performance vis a vis his contemporaries.

Again that wasnt your initial point was it.

You stated that there weren't kps to draft at Dals picks.

I clearly demonstrate there were.

You then come up with this rather odd response. You and I havent drafted any spuds either, so we are geniuses as well, right?

Sometimes maybe just concede a point and move on m8.

 

[BRWB]

09- I don't think anyone is disputing that this year was awful.
10- there were four notable players taken in about 80 live picks after the Schofield pick- Jenkins, gov, JJ and Dahl. Every club clearly had several busts in those 80 picks. Landing one of those four would've comfortably put a recruiter in the top 4 in the league for performance late in that draft. Landing two as we did was nothing short of incredible. The chances of picking one of those 4 at pick 74 was around 4 in 80 (95% chance of failure).
11- blicavz was a cat b rookie, who Geelong signed outside the draft. Collingwood had academy rights to witts. Dalrymple couldn't draft either.
12- if we had recruited rampe or membrey, everyone on here would call them third talls and still bemoan our kpp drafting.
13- no arguments here, that was a bad pick, but bont alone makes this draft a huge success. Most recruiters probably would've gone with Aish/kk/scharenberg. I'll take bont and fuller over one of those three and brown/barrass/aliir every day of the week.
14- if we'd picked one of those talls at 39, we would've picked Hamilton at 45, Dale at 46 and missed Caleb. I wouldn't trade Caleb for any of them.
15- conveniently not assessing Adams to suit your argument. I couldn't care less that he wasn't 18 when we drafted him, and I'm sure nobody at the club could either. In fact, it's better because he didn't need as much development time. We brought in a high quality key defender who suits our gameplan cheaply. Dalrymple deserves praise for that.

Throw in Collins, English, Young, NMM and Naughton and I think you'll find that over the coming years, we'll see some success with our recent KPP drafting.

Nothing youve said here shows Dal is able to identify young 18 yr old kp talent which has always been my concern. Until Dal is shown to have done this it makes him an incomplete recruiter imo. An indisputable gun at tbe smalls and mids.unproven with young Kps.

 

[bobby2]

Nothing youve said here shows Dal is able to identify young 18 yr old kp talent which has always been my concern. Until Dal is shown to have done this it makes him an incomplete recruiter imo. An indisputable gun at tbe smalls and mids.unproven with young Kps.

You're right, I haven't proven that he can pick up a good 18 year old key position player. Instead, I've disputed his opportunities to do so and also disputed whether their age matters. Have you got a single good reason why a recruiter needs to pick a good 18 year old rather than a good 21 year old like Adams? A sizeable proportion of the players you said he missed weren't 18 when drafted (Jenkins, rampe, brown, blicavz and Preuss).

In total, that leaves three picks from 2010 to 2014 where he potentially could've gotten a good 18 year old kpf instead of Schofield, Fuller or Hamilton. If you butcher three mid to late picks in five years, you're doing bloody well.

 

[TiAn_]

Again that wasnt your initial point was it.

You stated that there weren't kps to draft at Dals picks.

I clearly demonstrate there were.

You then come up with this rather odd response. You and I havent drafted any spuds either, so we are geniuses as well, right?

Sometimes maybe just concede a point and move on m8.

i never said there weren't any KPP players available to him. Again, I actually listed a number of KPP he didn't draft from each draft when I assessed his performance.

The suggestion was Dal was terrible when compared to his contemporaries at drafting KPP. A "1/10" according to Mattie. You both then listed half a dozen teams you say have been better than Dal at recruiting KPPs, which included mostly players drafted before Dal had the job, or players he couldn't have possibly drafted.

When I pointed out that was not a credible way of assessing him, instead of looking at how individual recruiters performed since 2009, you shifted gear to comparing Dal to every single other recruiter combined. Even then, you still came up with only a short list of players that included lumbering pure-ruck stiffs like Jarrad Witts and sub-190cm players like Membrey and Rampe.

Bont lead our team in contested marks last year while playing KP forward for large chunks of games. He took 4x contested marks as Rampe. If you're going to start bringing pseudo-KPP players like Dane Rampe into the mix we may as well include Bont and shut this whole thing down now.

I'm happy for you to concede the point and move on.

 

[BRWB]

i never said there weren't any KPP players available to him. Again, I actually listed a number of KPP he didn't draft from each draft when I assessed his performance.

The suggestion was Dal was terrible when compared to his contemporaries at drafting KPP. A "1/10" according to Mattie. You both then listed half a dozen teams you say have been better than Dal at recruiting KPPs, which included mostly players drafted before Dal had the job, or players he couldn't have possibly drafted.

When I pointed out that was not a credible way of assessing him, instead of looking at how individual recruiters performed since 2009, you shifted gear to comparing Dal to every single other recruiter combined. Even then, you still came up with only a short list of players that included lumbering pure-ruck stiffs like Jarrad Witts and sub-190cm players like Membrey and Rampe.

Bont lead our team in contested marks last year while playing KP forward for large chunks of games. He took 4x contested marks as Rampe. If you're going to start bringing pseudo-KPP players like Dane Rampe into the mix we may as well include Bont and shut this whole thing down now.

I'm happy for you to concede the point and move on.

Not buying it.

Boiled down

Dal hasnt drafted any good young kps (despite him having the players available to do so even not including Rampe)

His contemporaries have. wc have drafted two in barass and McGovern since 09.

You were clearly mistaken. Having made that fairly obvious point,only to happy to move on. ;-)

 

[Doggstats]

Dal hasnt drafted any good young kps (despite him having the players available to do so even not including Rampe)

None you say? That's crap mate. Everyone knows KPPs take time so you have no idea how Young, English, Naughton, Cordy, NMM, etc will turn out yet. In fact I'd be willing to put money down on English, Young, Naughton and maybe Cordy all becoming good to gun KPPs.

And you list Membrey(188cm) and Rampe(189cm) as KPPs? If that's so then Bont(193cm) and Stringer(192cm) are both All-Australian KPPs drafted by Dal too then.

And people blaming Marcus Adams injury's on Dal is just garbage.

Why are people also ignoring the fact that Dal himself even mentioned in an interview a couple years ago that 1 part of our recruiting strategy was to trade in KPPs (Toyd, Hamling, Schache, Trengove, etc) rather then drafting them because of how long they take to develop and the extremely low strike rate of any KPPs taken outside the top 5 picks in the draft.

 

[TiAn_]

Not buying it.

Boiled down

Dal hasnt drafted any good young kps (despite him having the players available to do so even not including Rampe)

His contemporaries have. wc have drafted two in barass and McGovern since 09.

You were clearly mistaken. Having made that fairly obvious point,only to happy to move on. ;-)

Haha the old "I'm stuffed here, I better just say I'm right a few times" manoeuvre. A BF staple!

Haha all in good fun, m8y

 

[Mattdougie]

I’m stunned the we aren’t dominating the AFLX with Dalrymples brilliant draft picks of the last two years

I guess they are just having a bad day because they must be stars coz Dal picked them

 

[BRWB]

None you say? That's crap mate. Everyone knows KPPs take time so you have no idea how Young, English, Naughton, Cordy, NMM, etc will turn out yet. In fact I'd be willing to put money down on English, Young, Naughton and maybe Cordy all becoming good to gun KPPs.

And you list Membrey(188cm) and Rampe(189cm) as KPPs? If that's so then Bont(193cm) and Stringer(192cm) are both All-Australian KPPs drafted by Dal too then.

And people blaming Marcus Adams injury's on Dal is just garbage.

Why are people also ignoring the fact that Dal himself even mentioned in an interview a couple years ago that 1 part of our recruiting strategy was to trade in KPPs (Toyd, Hamling, Schache, Trengove, etc) rather then drafting them because of how long they take to develop and the extremely low strike rate of any KPPs taken outside the top 5 picks in the draft.

I can accept not drafting kps may be a deliberate strategy. Whether it.works who knows. Could argue Boyd gf means all good.

Still doesnt change the contention that Dal hasnt.drafted a decent young kp. Citing unproven, mature age and/or injured recruits means jack s**t.

Haha the old "I'm stuffed here, I better just say I'm right a few times" manoeuvre. A BF staple!

Haha all in good fun, m8y

M8 all good keep tweaking

Enjoying the Dogs open contempt for x

 

[Mattdougie]

I can accept not drafting kps may be a deliberate strategy. Whether it.works who knows. Could argue Boyd gf means all good.

Still doesnt change the contention that Dal hasnt.drafted a decent young kp. Citing unproven, mature age and/or injured recruits means jack s**t.



M8 all good keep tweaking

Enjoying the Dogs open contempt for x

Arguing with lemmings will never work out

 

[immortalmike]

TiAn_ proving that sometimes 2 halves don't equal a whole.

 

[Braybrook Son]

Lose the best recruiter we’ve ever had, but Giansiracusa keeps a job. Sad days

 

[cleveland]

Did i read that Dal didnt want to take Naughton at pick 9?

 

[TiAn_]

Arguing with lemmings will never work out

Haha we can agree on that, it certainly never works out for you.

Have you got a single good reason why a recruiter needs to pick a good 18 year old rather than a good 21 year old like Adams? A sizeable proportion of the players you said he missed weren't 18 when drafted (Jenkins, rampe, brown, blicavz and Preuss).

Because limiting Dal’s selections to only 17 year old KPP that were born on 29 February and have a third nipple and contrasting that against all other recruiters’ combined ability to draft any player between 182-213cm proves that Dal has never seen a tall person before.