Damien Hardwick says "I don’t have to remind anyone in this room what our track record is against the Cats on the biggest stage”

[Falcon3518]

Just because you can’t grasp the concept of relativity doesn’t need to have cast shade on those of us who can.

Being better because you’re born later means absolutely f*** all when you’re comparing two differing generations of sportspeople and no amount of your avoiding the logic of such a discussion will change that.

What are you doing up so late anyway? On a US athletics forum telling Americans why Matt Shirvington is a better athlete than Jessie Owens because he has a quicker personal best over 100 metres?

We are comparing Geelong 07-11 to other premiership teams. You are comparing Geelong 07-11 born 11 years later with new imaginary tactics and systems whilst also assuming your coaches are smart enough to think of them in the first place, not to mention assuming you could draft those father-son picks with the current rules. That’s the difference. It’s literally a new team at that point.


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[Sky]

I 100% agree with this. Careful saying it on here and around PB though they don’t like it.


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If he doesn’t like it it’s probably got something to do with the fact that we’re probably going to have more hall of famers out of the two dynasties in a couple decades time.

Don’t worry though because the bar is low when guys like Mark Bickley are in and the only achievement he has is 2x premiership captain which is won by a team. The guy has no personal accolades. No All Australians or best and fairest sets a bad precedent

 

[Falcon3518]

F***ing give it a rest for the love of God

We.

Don’t.

Care.

About.

Developments.

In.

The.

Game.

If Richmond’s current team played the 2009 Saints the assumption would be made the the tactical progression and training methods and rules would meet somewhere in the middle between the two teams.

Any mustard seed sized amount of common sense dictates this.

Ok


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[PhatBoy]

We are comparing Geelong 07-11 to other premiership teams. You are comparing Geelong 07-11 born 11 years later with new imaginary tactics and systems whilst also assuming your coaches are smart enough to think of them in the first place, not to mention assuming you could draft those father-son picks with the current rules. That’s the difference. It’s literally a new team at that point.


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And you’re assuming - for literally no reason whatsoever - that in this imaginary showdown with a team from 11 years later - that they are meeting now.

Is the time machine being used to stage this showdown ONLY able to go forwards?

Why doesn’t the 2022 side have to go backwards in time?

How can you not understand this?

 

[PhatBoy]

The current north Melbourne team would be able to beat the Essendon 2000 team if they suddenly landed in 2022.

I have no doubt about this.

And I would probably s*** my pants publicly from laughter if someone tried to claim that this makes the current north Melbourne team ‘better’ than that essendon side of 2000.

 

[Sky]

F***ing give it a rest for the love of God

We.

Don’t.

Care.

About.

Developments.

In.

The.

Game.

If Richmond’s current team played the 2009 Saints the assumption would be made the the tactical progression and training methods and rules would meet somewhere in the middle between the two teams.

Any mustard seed sized amount of common sense dictates this.

We consistently thrashed teams and I’m definitely biased by nostalgia to a time when I was 10-14 years so I believe our dynasty was the best of all. Mathematically ours is the worst of all but we did it over a longer period of time and never fell down since. It helps my case that the top four during our era was up there with the best of all time but it doesn’t change the facts.

Comparing two teams of different time periods is quite a boring dick measuring contest. Anyone with common sense is aware the younger newer model would win every time without fail. Only 22 ACL’s could stop that.

 

[Sky]

The current north Melbourne team would be able to beat the Essendon 2000 team if they suddenly landed in 2022.

I have no doubt about this.

And I would probably s*** my pants publicly from laughter if someone tried to claim that this makes the current north Melbourne team ‘better’ than that essendon side of 2000.

Who has said North Melbourne 2022 is better than Essendon 2000? North would win because all those blokes are in their 40s and 50s.

Even removing the whole age factor. 20 years of tactics and modern day professionalism gone by. Those Essendon champs would be lucky to get within 10 goals of 2022 North Melbourne.

 

[PhatBoy]

We consistently thrashed teams and I’m definitely biased by nostalgia to a time when I was 10-14 years so I believe our dynasty was the best of all. Mathematically ours is the worst of all but we did it over a longer period of time and never fell down since. It helps my case that the top four during our era was up there with the best of all time but it doesn’t change the facts.

Comparing two teams of different time periods is quite a boring dick measuring contest. Anyone with common sense is aware the younger newer model would win every time without fail. Only 22 ACL’s could stop that.

Of course they would. Advancements, tactical changes, rule changes, all sorts of things make an average current team equipped to easily beat an elite team of the past.

So putting two teams against one another, concessions must be made so that it’s a level playing field.

 

[Falcon3518]

And you’re assuming - for literally no reason whatsoever - that in this imaginary showdown with a team from 11 years later - that they are meeting now.

Is the time machine being used to stage this showdown ONLY able to go forwards?

Why doesn’t the 2022 side have to go backwards in time?

How can you not understand this?

Yeah they can go back too. Considering the stand and 666 rules weren’t in place that negatively affected our game plan as it’s harder to lock the ball in (not complaining about the rule I think they are good) we’d flog them even worse.


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[PhatBoy]

Who has said North Melbourne 2022 is better than Essendon 2000? North would win because all those blokes are in their 40s and 50s.

Even removing the whole age factor. 20 years of tactics and modern day professionalism gone by. Those Essendon champs would be lucky to get within 10 goals of 2022 North Melbourne.

Anyone would say it. If the Essendon GF team of 2000 was parachuted to right now, they’d get flogged by North. That’s the progression of sport.

 

[Falcon3518]

The current north Melbourne team would be able to beat the Essendon 2000 team if they suddenly landed in 2022.

I have no doubt about this.

And I would probably s*** my pants publicly from laughter if someone tried to claim that this makes the current north Melbourne team ‘better’ than that essendon side of 2000.

This comment is precisely why I said when a premiership team implements it. I thought you’d read it but obviously not.


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[PhatBoy]

Yeah they can go back too. Considering the stand and 666 rules weren’t in place that negatively affected our game plan as it’s harder to lock the ball in (not complaining about the rule I think they are good) we’d flog them even worse.


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You’d be going to a time period where no one - your own coach included - hasn’t conceived some of your tactical developments. That means YOUR TEAM doesn’t have access to them either.

 

[Sky]

Anyone would say it. If the Essendon GF team of 2000 was parachuted to right now, they’d get flogged by North. That’s the progression of sport.

I get what you’re saying. I just don’t believe in comparing.

The way you’re putting it is like saying Collingwood 1927-1930 fourpeat side would beat Essendon 2000 because they only had one great season.

 

[Falcon3518]

You’d be going to a time period where no one - your own coach included - hasn’t conceived some of your tactical developments. That means YOUR TEAM doesn’t have access to them either.

That’s if I was using your logic not mine. I’m taking each teams as they are. Geelong 07-11 and Richmond 17-20.


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[Sky]

Even though you both argue a lot, I wanna say thanks for keeping footy discussion alive in the off season.

This website dies off after the draft normally and it sucks

 

[PhatBoy]

I get what you’re saying. I just don’t believe in comparing.

The way you’re putting it is like saying Collingwood 1927-1930 fourpeat side would beat Essendon 2000 because they only had one great season.

No actually it’s not.

I’ve made it very clear on this topic in the past that While that Pies team ACHIEVED something greater than other sides, that wouldn’t translate to
them automatically being better than all other flag teams.

If Essendon 2000 met Collingwood 1930 in heaven and had a match, and Essendon bounded out to a 30 point lead because they were a stronger team man for man, they wouldn’t suddenly start losing because they all remembered ‘oh hang on, we won less flags than these blokes we’d better start playing worse.’

 

[Falcon3518]

Of course they would. Advancements, tactical changes, rule changes, all sorts of things make an average current team equipped to easily beat an elite team of the past.

So putting two teams against one another, concessions must be made so that it’s a level playing field.

Your ‘concessions’ are changing the whole makeup of the team. Mine is literally just the rules of the game at the time.


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[PhatBoy]

That’s if I was using your logic not mine. I’m taking each teams as they are. Geelong 07-11 and Richmond 17-20.


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Why would you take them as they are.

That instantly means the more recent team is going to be better.


‘Who’s the best team of all time’
‘What year is it?’
‘2022.’

thread ends

 

[Sky]

Why would you take them as they are.

That instantly means the more recent team is going to be better.


‘Who’s the best team of all time’
‘What year is it?’
‘2022.’

thread ends

I don’t think one season makes a difference but 5, maybe 10.

 

[PhatBoy]

Your ‘concessions’ are changing the whole makeup of the team. Mine is literally just the rules of the game at the time.


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90 per cent of the s**t current athletes put into their body didn’t exist 50 years ago.

So how the f*** can you do a fair comparison of the ONLY thing you allow for is rule changes?

Half the Hawthorn players that won a shedload of flags worked 40 hours a week, how the f*** is comparing their preparation and physical conditioning fair next to Trent Cotchin who for a decade and a half has been paid a tonne to not lift a finger if it’s not football related?

 

[PhatBoy]

I don’t think one season makes a difference but 5, maybe 10.

Exaggeration for effect.

 

[Falcon3518]

Why would you take them as they are.

That instantly means the more recent team is going to be better.


‘Who’s the best team of all time’
‘What year is it?’
‘2022.’

thread ends

Depends on how long the gap is between each team and where they finished on the ladder. As well as taking into account time periods in the game which significantly changed the quality of the comp. VFL turning into AFL, players becoming full time professionals and Clarkson’s cluster.


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[Sky]

Exaggeration for effect.

I’m unsure because as normal I understand where both of you blokes are coming from.

Essendon 2000 were a better team than all 18 sides in 2022’s competition but I just can’t believe anyone with a 22 year disadvantage is capable of winning. This is not even just about Australian rules but every team sport.

I thought Adelaide had the best bud in Australia but I reckon you’re onto some top notch yourself

 

[PhatBoy]

Depends on how long the gap is between each team and where they finished on the ladder. As well as taking into account time periods in the game which significantly changed the quality of the comp. VFL turning into AFL, players becoming full time professionals and Clarkson’s cluster.


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W/L record
Relative quality of the opposition
What did they have to overcome to get to or near the top
Man for man quality of the side itself
Beatability in general: was anyone getting close to them
Weaknesses
Strengths


I think most people would look at all of these criteria irrespective of time period in order to formulate a broad picture of how good a side was

 

[Sky]

Anyone would say it. If the Essendon GF team of 2000 was parachuted to right now, they’d get flogged by North. That’s the progression of sport.

I’m too blazed to be typinh s**t online because I read all your comments thinking you said Essendon 2000 would beat North 2022

My bad dude