List Mgmt. Dan Hannebery - 5 year deal & Pick 28 to St.Kilda for Pick 39 & 2019 2nd Round Pick

[PoppedCorn]

 

[Moquo]

Positive, negative...it's ALL spin.
Whatever blows your hair back.

 

[The_Steadier]

You should listen to your 3 year old more often.

Quit being biased & look at things objectively. This trade hasn’t worked out & won’t likely improve over the next 2-3 years. Same with drafting Paddy. Own it & move on.

I’m not upset, just stating facts based on the information available. As I said earlier, the contrary is spin.

Oh his off field leadership is great. We have coaches & leadership consultants that fill that role.

He’s been coaching the boys during injuries? Yea nah we have coaches to fill those roles.

It it wasn’t for Hanneberry we wouldn’t have got Hill & the other recruits? Nothing to do with offering Hill 800k x 5 years. Sack Gags, Dans our man.

He’s employed to play football something which he’s struggled with.

I get it mate-
Nuance = spin
Bicycle wheels = spin
Information that makes you reevaluate your stubbornly held opinion = spin
Washing machines = spin
Factors beyond superficial analysis = spin
Shane Warne = spin king

The world is a scary place because of all the grey area- it's much nicer to revert to a black and white world and deny the existence of all the uncertainty and grey area.

There are goodies and baddies, i get it

 

[triggering bro]

I get it mate-
Nuance = spin
Bicycle wheels = spin
Information that make you reevaluate your stubbornly held opinion = spin
Washing machines = spin
Factors beyond superficial analysis = spin
Shane Warne = spin king

10 stubbies = head spin.
Have a nap mate you are cooked.

 

[Diehard Saint]

More SYDNEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Players, may come

What aren’t you telling us?

 

[The_Steadier]

When you say "forfeit the money" whose money, the AFL's? Or do you mean forfeit the cap space?

Is my understanding of the cap implication (outlined a couple of replies back) correct?

(Under the AFL's cap banking system)
We were in a position to be able to pay 105% of the salary cap off the back of only paying 95% of the salary cap for a number of years.
We did this in anticipation of using the extra 5% cap space to help land a shiel, dusty, kelly level big fish but that didnt happen.

Under the banking system, if you don't use the extra 5% if you have it, then you lose it.
(Ie you cant 'bank' it to use in another year)

 

[PostmanBish]

Yes - so does that help with why paying "overs" for Hannebery was not that much of an issue for us at the time. Don't forget that in the 5 games he played last year he averaged 25 possessions a game and provided an incredible leadership as well. Was looking like a winner.

Was it a risk - of course it was - but then again every trade is a risk.

Has it cost us the opportunity to recruit other players? Clearly NO.

If anything, I think getting Hannebery on the field last season likely helped our recruiting - a team with that extra, experienced player looks a whole lot better than a team which is full of talented but inconsistent/unproven youngsters, and about to lose Stuv/Bruce.

It's entirely possible, with the leadership we added, and the growth in those youngsters with a better structure around them, that we've move past needing Hannebery in order to have success ... if he gets right by the time we're contending, fantastic, but it's pretty clear our list has the potential to do it without him being on-field (and let's face it, his off-field contributions are not shabby).

Hopefully this surgery gets him right, and we get a couple of full seasons from him before he hangs up the boots ... but if not, I still feel he has had an influence.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

You must think a lot of posters here are Nostradamus...

Either that or they have eyeballs.

Yeah a bloke who struggled through a season playing hurt has never got himself right & played good footy.

Thanks eyeballs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kernelT]

You should listen to your 3 year old more often.

Quit being biased & look at things objectively. This trade hasn’t worked out & won’t likely improve over the next 2-3 years. Same with drafting Paddy. Own it & move on.

I’m not upset, just stating facts based on the information available. As I said earlier, the contrary is spin.

Oh his off field leadership is great. We have coaches & leadership consultants that fill that role.

He’s been coaching the boys during injuries? Yea nah we have coaches to fill those roles.

It it wasn’t for Hanneberry we wouldn’t have got Hill & the other recruits? Nothing to do with offering Hill 800k x 5 years. Sack Gags, Dans our man.

He’s employed to play football something which he’s struggled with.

Much better to address the error and learn from the mistake rather than pretend that it is some kind of masterstroke long term investment in the form of leadership and a recruitment carrot. The bloke is in our top handful of earners and can't play regular football, we don't know if this will impact our ability to land or retain players yet… 600K can get you a decent player or go towards a gun FA.

People are rightly frustrated because they could see this coming from a mile away, it's not an unlucky turn of luck.

 

[The_Steadier]

Much better to address the error and learn from the mistake rather than pretend that it is some kind of masterstroke long term investment in the form of leadership and a recruitment carrot.

People are rightly frustrated because they could see this coming from a mile away, it's not an unlucky turn of luck.

Where's the hurt though?

A stuff up needs to have caused damage, otherwise it's just a punt that didn't come off.

How have we been hurt by the hanners trade?

 

[kernelT]

Where's the hurt though?

A stuff up needs to have caused damage, otherwise it's just a punt that didn't come off.

How have we been hurt by the hanners trade?

If we had so much money spare then I don't know why we didn't throw it a player who can get on the ground.

The hurt is having 6-800 K less each year to chase a gun player or retain a rising star.

 

[goodie23]

I get it mate-
Nuance = spin
Bicycle wheels = spin
Information that makes you reevaluate your stubbornly held opinion = spin
Washing machines = spin
Factors beyond superficial analysis = spin
Shane Warne = spin king

The world is a scary place because of all the grey area- it's much nicer to revert to a black and white world and deny the existence of all the uncertainty and grey area.

There are goodies and baddies, i get it

 

[gringo2011]

Where's the hurt though?

A stuff up needs to have caused damage, otherwise it's just a punt that didn't come off.

How have we been hurt by the hanners trade?

It limits going after other big name players. Someone suggested we don't have much space left in the cap. He might stop us getting a FA or Josh Kelly type. Yes it's play money because we get money from the AFL but you only get so much of it to use at one time. The irony is it was at a desperate time when we wanted to show we were players, now we have some appeal we are unable to find money. I guess the moral of the story is don't get desperate and jump at the first shiny thing you see.

 

[gringo2011]

If we had so much money spare then I don't know why we didn't throw it a player who can get on the ground.

The hurt is having 6-800 K less each year to chase a gun player or retain a rising star.

Damn, I thought I was clever coming up with my not so original post.

 

[goodie23]

It limits going after other big name players. Someone suggested we don't have much space left in the cap. He might stop us getting a FA or Josh Kelly type. Yes it's play money because we get money from the AFL but you only get so much of it to use at one time. The irony is it was at a desperate time when we wanted to show we were players, now we have some appeal we are unable to find money. I guess the moral of the story is don't get desperate and jump at the first shiny thing you see.

Apparently that's not accurate.

North Melbourne, St Kilda and Brisbane lead the clubs with the most salary cap room for this year’s exchange period as rivals Collingwood, Melbourne, Port Adelaide, GWS Giants and Essendon all juggle much tighter caps.

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And it hardly put a halt to our trading last year. Pretty safe to say we had money to burn on salary cap.

 

[gringo2011]

Apparently that's not accurate.

North Melbourne, St Kilda and Brisbane lead the clubs with the most salary cap room for this year’s exchange period as rivals Collingwood, Melbourne, Port Adelaide, GWS Giants and Essendon all juggle much tighter caps.

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www.heraldsun.com.au

And it hardly put a halt to our trading last year. Pretty safe to say we had money to burn on salary cap.

Which is why it's maxed out now. If you took Hanners $800,000 per year out you could use it on Josh Kelly or another younger less injured player.

 

[goodie23]

Which is why it's maxed out now. If you took Hanners $800,000 per year out you could use it on Josh Kelly or another younger less injured player.

It's not maxed out. We're up there with North in having the most space...

 

[The_Steadier]

If we had so much money spare then I don't know why we didn't throw it a player who can get on the ground.

The hurt is having 6-800 K less each year to chase a gun player or retain a rising star.

Who haven't we got or failed to retain because of the 6-800k we've paid hanners the last 2 years?

Sure it's a different kettle of fish if that changes in 2021 or 2022 and we do actually miss a trade target or lose someone solely because we ran out of cap space.

It appears incredibly unlikely that will occur though; having gotten rid of acres who was reportedly on 500k a year, plus mccartin, robbo and jack steven money all coming off the books this year.

Lethers has said our cap has gone from have heaps of space to just regular (afl average) amounts of space- he went out of his way to note that we still have ample room to move things around to accommodate new trade ins.

So maybe at very least withhold your judgement on declaring the hanners trade a dud until the day comes where it actually does cause us damage?

 

[The_Steadier]

Which is why it's maxed out now. If you took Hanners $800,000 per year out you could use it on Josh Kelly or another younger less injured player.

Lethers said we now have afl average amount of cap space. That was AFTER a spending spree of bringing in half a dozen starting 22 players.

 

[kernelT]

It's not maxed out. We're up there with North in having the most space...

Do you think a… Gaff/Crouch/Kelly type would be more likely to come if we offer up 900k per season or 1.5 million per season?

 

[kernelT]

Who haven't we got or failed to retain because of the 6-800k we've paid hanners the last 2 years?

Sure it's a different kettle of fish if that changes in 2021 or 2022 and we do actually miss a trade target or lose someone solely because we ran out of cap space.

It appears incredibly unlikely that will occur though; having gotten rid of acres who was reportedly on 500k a year, plus mccartin, robbo and jack steven money all coming off the books this year.

Lethers has said our cap has gone from have heaps of space to just regular (afl average) amounts of space- he went out of his way to note that we still have ample room to move things around to accommodate new trade ins.

So maybe at very least withhold your judgement on declaring the hanners trade a dud until the day comes where it actually does cause us damage?

Remember when people used to LOL at the idea of trading for Lachie Neale… he'd be pretty handy about now, can't recall us chasing him when we were landing big fish dan.

The hanners trade is a dud because he's not playing football, I am happy to declare that now just as I was happy to voice the same opinion before he even came. If he plays a full season and helps us win finals then I'll be happy to take it all back.

Maybe we can stick Tony Robbins on the books and in the cap to rev the boys up and help land a few more big trade targets.

 

[The_Steadier]

Do you think a… Gaff/Crouch/Kelly type would be more likely to come if we offer up 900k per season or 1.5 million per season?

It was widely reported that both us and carlton offered shiel circa 2 million more over the course of the contract than the bombers, look who he chose.

Money isn't the single deciding factor.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Money isn't the single deciding factor.

You’re right.
And I bet we’ll look a lot more attractive to anyone we are chasing if we end the season the way we are heading now than we would have a couple of years ago.

 

[gringo2011]

Lethers said we now have afl average amount of cap space. That was AFTER a spending spree of bringing in half a dozen starting 22 players.

And the next contracts for Hunter,Wilkie, Marshall, Coff, Paton etc should eat in to the average amounts we have left.

 

[The_Steadier]

And the next contracts for Hunter,Wilkie, Marshall, Coff, Paton etc should eat in to the average amounts we have left.

Nope because those increases to improving young players are balanced out by decreases in older players new contracts and retirements.

Those young guys contracts go up, meanwhile guys like carlisle, geary, ryder nath brown, savage, ross etc get smaller as time goes on.

Sure guys like geary and ryder aren't on massive coin- say 350-500k?
but when they retire their spot on the list isn't filled with another 350-400k player... it's filled by an 18 year old on minimum wage.

For instance, say geary retires next year- 500k or whatever drops off and is replaced by a draftee on 100k.
Boom, there's 200k a year pay rises each for clark and wilkie.

And so on.


Btw marshall re-signed last year along with gresh and billings.

So after signing 6 new starting 22 players and re-signing those 3 guns and carrying robbo, steven and mccartin money, lethers said we are now at afl average cap space level.