Dan24's Test

[chev1977]

Question:

Is a premiership worth more than finishing minor premier ?


Is minor premier more important ?

WILL POST ANSWER IN A FEW DAYS PERHAPS TOMMOROW !!

 

[Dan26]

That's a pretty stupid question, really.

Obviously winning the Grand Final is considered more important. (Duh !)

That's why we should give "top spot" more recognition, so that it is given the same importance as winning the Grand Final. The achievement has to equal the recognition.

Currently, the achievement doesn't equal the recognition.

 

[chev1977]

who wants that I DONT !!!

If Adelaide finnished first in the minor round I could'nt care less !!

ONLY FLAGS ARE IMPORTANT AND HOPEFULLY ALWAYS WILL BE !

I vote against it stuff the minor premier there should'nt be a title for them called "minor premier" because it deserves less recocnition !!!


say something good and I might agree with you one day !

 

[Dan26]

I didn't say abolish the Grand Final you fool. Are you dumb or something ? Keep the Grand Final, but if you win it, you are premiers of the final series. If you win the home and away, you are premiers of the "home and away".


It's not rocket science.

Your precious Adeaide would still be premiers, my friend. Final series premiers.

God, it's hard to get through to some people.

 

[servo]

Dan you fail to appreciate what a good number of us are saying.

We do understand what you are saying, we just don't agree with it and you won't convince us.

 

[Dan26]

Don't speak for anyone other than yourself Servo. It's rude.

I've said many times that people DON'T like change, but they grow to love it. 90% of Victorians didn't want a national comp in 1986. Should we listen to them ? Obviously not.

If you legitimately believe that people would not want to see the years best team rewarded (as opposed to being ignored), whilst still having the Grand Final as well, you're a fool in my opinion.

It's not a major change. the GF is still there, so what's the big f*cking deal ?
I repaet, he Grand final is still there so what;s the big f*cking deal.

I've said it before.

THE PUBLIC WILL ACCEPT WHATEVER IS GIVEN RECOGNITION. IF IT'S GIVEN NO RECOGNITION, THEY WON'T ACCEPT IT.

Typical Adelaide bias. You're just speaking froma bias perspective becasue your team won, from 4th and 5th. Try opening your eyes and looking at things UN-BIASLY......

 

[jod23]

Servo's not being rude Dan he really is speaking for all of us

2000 the year of the Eagle

 

[Dan26]

It's not even big deal jod23.

FACTS IF THE PROPOSAL WAS ADOPTED :

*Grand Final would remain.

*The best team over the course of 22 weeks gets recognised, yet the Grand Final still remains AS WELL !

*All the home and away matches count towards something meaningfull.

*The public can actually get excited about their club winning a home and away match, because it will count towards something.

*Finals will be knockout, making it more exciting, as every match, will leave a team eliminated.

*Season will conclude with the Grand Final as pre normal.

.
.
If you don't think the public would like that, you're an idiot. An absolute idiot. Now, I'm not saying you're an idiot, because I am assuming you will see the light of day and use some common-sense, thereby remaining idiot-free.

Why would the public not want a recognition system, where the Grand Final remains as the last day of the year (as usual), yet also rewards (as it should), the team that wins more matches than anyone else (i.e the best), over 22 weeks. Especially since over the last 5 years or so, there has been great talk, even from the public about giving top spot more recognition.

Considering only 4 or 5 of you go against me on this (eg Curious, Servo, Jod23), I'll take the OTHER 200 posters on this forum who are FOR it.

You're just the vocal minority. I'll take the silent majority.

Now, please, use some friggin common-sense.

 

[scratchatore]

Dan 24 once again you show your total ignorance of other peoples opinions. Go to England with your idiotic "minor premier" philosophy. The F.A. cup and the Premier League competitions are totally separate and worthy only of a boring game that gets excited over nil all draws. If you didn't have the two different competitions nobody would still be following the game after 30 odd years of Liverpool and Man United domination. Accept the fact that those voices that you hear inside your head maybe the result of some sort of mental disorder. Seek medical advice.

 

[Dan26]

Scratchatore

Stop being so childish.

Also, stop putting down soccer. I don't care that much for soccer either. That's not the point. It's the system of recognising excellence that is important. it could be volleyball, or lawn bowls for all I care. The sport is irrelevant.

What has Liverpool or ManU domination got to do with anything ??????????? Both comps have existed for 100 years through dominating periods and "even" periods.

Anyway, it doesn't matter who finishes top. The team is irrelevant. Whoever it is, they should get rewarded for their efforts. Whether they have won it for the previous 10 years is beside the point.

 

[Dan26]

Scratchatore

Anyway, that's what I want. Two SEPERATE competitions. The home and away, then the finals, with all 8 teams treated equally.

Two trophys to win, with Grand Final day remaining as the last day of the year.

Not that much of a change really. Just rewarding excellence, which the current system doesn't do. So why anyone would be against it is beyond me.

 

[Scratchatore]

The point is this Dan 24:

The FA Cup and the Premier League are two separate competitions that are run concurrently. Neither has any bearing on the other. Winning the Premier League does not make you eligible to play in the FA cup finals and vise versa.
Should winning the home and away "minor premiership" make you eligible to play in the finals. As the "best team" has already won what then is the point of even having a finals series? Because, as you have pointed out so many times before with total disregard for all other opinions, the winner of the Grand Final is not always the "best team", they are often dud games and any team can cop a flogging as you know so well.

 

[Dan26]

I know what you are saying.

My main point is that currently the teams are striving for a double cance in the finals, right ? That is what they are striving for i the home and away season. Now, I want to make them SEPERATE tournaments, right ? We have to "un-link" the finals from the home and away. How do we do this ? How do we "un-link" them ?

We unlink them by treating all teams in the finals EQUALLY. Then, the clubs wont be aiming for a double chance because there won't be one. Instead, they will be aiming for top spot. The finals will be knockout.

See what I mean ?

I see the finals as a SEPERATE tournament just to be played amongst the elite 8 teams of the competition. Sure, you could have all 16, I suppose, over 4 weeks. Would that make you happier ? Then everyone is involved.

But I like 8. Then, those teams that can't win the "home and away" premiership can still strive to be a part of the SEPERATE, elite, 8 team knockout finals series premiership.

Anyway, look at the champions league in Europe. It's a SEPERATE competition to the domestic premiership isn't it ? But you qualify for it, by being one of the two (or three) best team in your domestic competition.

But if you FAIL in Europe, you have still got recognition (and deservadly so), for finishing on top of the table, havnt you ? They are SEPERATE, even though you use one to qualify for the other. I'm aware the FA CUP is not EXACTLY the same as our Grand Final. I never said they were.

Obviously, if you finish on top (whoever it happens to be), you should get recognition. It's fairer for all. Your performance in one match should NOT define your season.

 

[Dan26]

You said this :

"the winner of the Grand Final is not always the "best team", they are often dud games and any team can cop a flogging as you know so well."

That's 100% correct. Exactly the reason, why the top of the ladder team should get more recognition.

You're agreeing now at least.

 

[chev1977]

well Danny boy "The pipes are not calling"

even if Adelaide won the Grand Final this year (and we all know they are'nt the best team all year because Essendon is !)

The point still stands...is that the winner is the best and minor premier dont mean shit ! and the majority of people dont want it changed...


be happy with what I have just said and lets debate another topic for a change..

Do all other non-Dan24 people agree with me ?

 

[Roylion]

I haven't commented on this issue before, because I just don't think it's that important! I do agree to a certain extent that the team finishing in top position should receive more recognition perhaps a greater monetary award. However for me, its winning a Grand Final that is the MOST important and definitely should receive the most recognition. The season/competition doesn't end at the end of 22 home and away games and a new one (final series) begins. The position you occupy at the end of those 22 home and away games determines your chances of winning the "Holy Grail", the premiership. In fact I would argue that the new finals system makes finishing top spot LESS important. It's finishing in the top four that becomes important now. 4th is more likely to beat 1st (perhaps not this year!) than 8th is likely to. I would hate to see a system such as operates with the soccer in England. The winner of the Grand Final is far more important than the team finishing on top four weeks before the end of the season.

 

[Drakey]

This will be the last time I make a comment about the minor premiership.

I think most people can see the logic of Dans argument. I do.

That doesn't mean I want things to change.

The fact that the team that wins the GF (and therefore gets all the recognition) might not be the team that has won the most games is something I luv & I don't want to change it.

I think it's part of the Australian psyche to want the underdog to prevail. Call it tall poppy syndrome or whatever. It's an Australian thing. Americans luv winners. We luv battlers.

Look at our sports. Grand Finals in Footy, Rugby, Soccer, Cricket etc. Our premier horse race is a handicap race. As a people we like to bring the high fliers back to the field.

Dan you say that if the afl gave the minor premiership more importance then the fans will rate it more highly. I am not convinced by this argument. The Ansett cup has a lot of coverage but is it rated by the fans?

I know this much. If Adelaide don't make the GF, I wont be supporting Essendon. (unless they are playing Carlton. Then I don't know what I'll do.) It's not that I particularly dislike the bombers. It wouldn't matter which side it was (other than Adelaide). It's just that at the moment they are too good & I want to see them fall on their faces.

Tall Poppy Syndrome? You bet.

 

[Pessimistic]

OK Dan. You claim that the bombers have 15 premierships

In which years weren't they the best team ?

1993 for one- you came top on percentage

 

[The Ball]

Winning on percentage is just the same as winning the grand final by a point

 

[Dan26]

Pessimistic,

If you finish on top on percentage, it is no different to winning the soccer premiership on goal difference (or as Ball said, winning the Grand Final by a point). If you finish above every other team over 22 weeks, it is a huge effort. It was a very even year though, 1993 I'll admit.

Actually, Pess, this year will be our 16th time heading the ladder. One behind both Carlton and Collingwood.

Roylion,

I've said many times, I'm not talking about how it IS. I'm talking about how it SHOULD be. Obviously at the moment, the Grand Final is more important than anything else (duh!). That's not the point.

The point is, it's HARDER to peak over 22 weeks and finish above 15 teams over 22 weeks, than it is to win 3 matches in September. Much harder.

Currently, the AFL gives all the recognition to the Grand Final winner so we all want to win it. In the old VFA, all the recognition was given to top spot. When the VFL was formed, the public accepted the "new" Grand Final, even though it was tradition-less. The public will accept whatever is given recognition. They will.

The other thing Roylion, is that if you look at Soccer, every win Manchester United has means something. After every match they can say : "That was important. Now we are one win closer to securing top spot and winning the premiership"

In the AFL, the home and away Matches (which comprise 95% of the season) are virtually meaningless. You can win all of them, but sadly it doesnt mean anyting. Why should we reward mediocrity. We should reward excellence. Let's reward BOTH the GF winner and the home and away champion.

The Grand Final still exists anyway, so what's the big deal ? The bottom line is that your performance in ONE match shouldn't define your season. It's not fair. If Essendon finish 8th and win the Grand Final, they are NOT the years best team. They don't deserve to be called that. All they did was play well for 4 weeks. The Brisbane Lions could have gone 22-0, and then they lose the Grand Final to the Dons who went 11-11.

Why should Essendon get more recognition than Brisnabe ? Eessndon were average. Yes, we should reward Essendon, but only to the extent of being "final series' Champions. Nothing more. Why should one match against a one-off opponent define how good a team you are. That's crap.

Drakey.

You can still have your "underdog" thing. The Grand Final will still be there. So, if Essendon were "rewarded" for being home and away champions, and they were to also make the Grand Final as well, you can still cheer on their opponent. That's the great thing. the best team can still lose the Grand Final (that will keep you happy), but they would have been DESERVADLY rewarded for finishing above all otheres over 22 weeks.

I see only positives that can come of this.

 

[Hirdhasbigears]

God, Dan you just have to make everyone's life a misery, don't you?
Finishing on top of the ladder has nowhere near the significance of winning THE GRAND FINAL. Essendon finished there last year but did they win the grand final? NO. All that being minor premiers (underline minor) does is help teams on their way to the gf and give them a second chance if they lose in the first week. But this year teams finishing in second, third and fourth spot also get that privelege. So as long as you are in the top four, it doesn't matter where, you've got an equal chance.

You are such a typical Essendon supporter. Get a life!

 

[Hirdhasbigears]

God, Dan you just have to make everyone's life a misery, don't you?
Finishing on top of the ladder has nowhere near the significance of winning THE GRAND FINAL. Essendon finished there last year but did they win the grand final? NO. All that being minor premiers (underline minor) does is help teams on their way to the gf and give them a second chance if they lose in the first week. But this year teams finishing in second, third and fourth spot also get that privelege. So as long as you are in the top four, it doesn't matter where, you've got an equal chance.

You are such a typical Essendon supporter. Get a life!

 

[Dan26]

Bigears,

You're obviously new to this forum and my ramblings, so I'll go easy on you.

First of all, who barrack for is irrelevent. I'd be saying the same thing if Essendon were last.

Secondly, you are talkin about how it IS. I'm talking about how it SHOULD be. There is a difference. Obviously, the GF is the main prize at the moment. Gee, you're a genius aren't you.

I'm talking about how it SHOULD be. It is harder to finish on top of 15 other teams over 22 weeks than it is to win a 4 week tournament. That's how they decided the premiership in soccer (top spot), yet they still have a Grand Final stlye event (the FA CUP) as well.

So, don't go telling me how it IS. Because it's a waste of your time. We all know how it IS. Everyone. How it SHOULD be is that we reward BOTH the "home and away" premiership and the "finals series" premiership. Read some of my other posts on here first, becasue any answer to your questiuons will no doubt be in there.

 

[Daniel]

For christ's sake people, stop making Dan24 repeat himself because he will just keep on doing it. Even if you don't agree with him, please stop making comments along the lines of "you idiot, top spot means nothing and the Grand Final is most important".

Everybody knows this is an indisuptable fact and no-one needs to be told. Repeatedly stating the current situation gets us nowhere.

I'm in agreeance with Drakey. I understand the logic of the argument but I don't want things to change. However, I won't complain too much when and if they do. It's not like a rule change that fundamentally effects the way the game is played. Priorities are all that would be different and even then not too greatly.

 

[servo]

I will not comment on this topic ever again and suggest that we all should do the same so as to deny Dan24 an audience here.