Dangerfield + Kerridge + 53 = Milera + Menzel + Gore - Discuss

Discussion in 'Adelaide' started by Rory Walkerfield, Nov 25, 2015.

Put it out there
  1. Wayne's-World

    Wayne's-World Hall of Famer

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    If that were to eventuate ...forget winning finals footy

    All finals are won & lost on contested footy ......but then getting the ball to the runners
     
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  2. adelaidecrows

    adelaidecrows Brownlow Medallist

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    As good as a player Dangerfield was for us we ended up running our midfield on his crash and bash style. This worked against the bad to mediocre teams but the good teams could cover him and force the turnovers. When we used the ball in open play we were simply awesome but in the heat of battle in the middle we just struggled to get on top. With Danger absent now we are forced to become better uses of the ball and if the Crouch Brothers get operating with their contested ball winning abilities we should start smashing it in the centre. Having said all this about the midfield it should be stated that Danger was a gun around the the ground with some awesome strong marking so that aspect may be hard to cover.
     
  3. adelaidecrows

    adelaidecrows Brownlow Medallist

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    We have an abundance of players in his position now with Menzel, Betts, Cameron and Milera. He was probably safe until we got Menzel and the club then realised he was going to struggle to get a game. From all reports we were going to rookie list him but you guys beat us too the punch. The rate that you trade out your players too us though (Menzel, Betts, Jacobs) you can keep this one. He is our gift to you! Think of it as the gift that will just keep giving.
     
  4. Kruzering

    Kruzering Norm Smith Medallist

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    Haha, if Menzel becomes an All Austraian as well I will spew!
     
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  5. arsene wenger1

    arsene wenger1 Club Legend

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    Happy with the players we got in, improved our depth and brought in X factor, match winning type players......I still believe when your trading a top 3 player you should be able to get more but as a whole, I'm pretty excited with the talent we brought in
     
  6. Peter J

    Peter J Brownlow Medallist

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    Not sure Clarko agrees.
     
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  7. Wayne's-World

    Wayne's-World Hall of Famer

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    TOT CONTESTED AVE
    Adelaide Crows................3283...............142.7
    Brisbane Lions.................2839...............129
    Carlton...........................2863...............130.1
    Collingwood....................3185................144.5
    Essendon........................3000................136.4
    Fremantle.......................3372................140.5
    Geelong Cats...................2770................131.9
    Gold Coast Suns..............2993.................136
    GWS Giants....................2810.................127.7
    Hawthorn.......................3498..................134.5
    Melbourne......................2974..................135.2
    North Melbourne.............3393...................135.7
    Port Adelaide..................3055...................138.9
    Richmond.......................3137...................136.4
    St Kilda..........................2913...................132.4
    Sydney Swans................3343....................139.3
    West Coast Eagles...........3512....................140.5
    Western Bulldogs.............3205....................139.3

    I'll stand to be corrected but if you win a lot of games, i'd suggest contested possessions can be down as well as tackles
    Hawthorn #1 in total, but think that includes finals
    Hawthorn #13 in Ave contested possesions
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  8. Sanders

    Sanders Brownlow Medallist

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    Maybe you are right, but argue the case and show that up
     
  9. Stiffy_18

    Stiffy_18 Premium Platinum

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    Peter J is not the only one that has mentioned this, suggesting that Hawthorn is not a good contested footy team and that is not quite true. The reason why Hawthorn's contested footy skills are not so obvious is because of their clean disposal once they win it where as a lot of the contested footy teams follow up contested footy win with another contested footy because of their lack of cleaness around the packs where as Hawks seem to find their outside runners who effectively hit their next target this was my hunch and figures seems to support this.

    I went back and compared Hawthorn's contested ball numbers to their direct opponent for every game they played this season. Bottom line, they win their fair share and they rarely lose the contested ball battle by more than 5 contested possesions. Below is every game Hawks have played and the contested footy stats from that game. In brackets is the outcome of the match and not of the contested ball battle (I was going to look at the disposal efficiency but couldn't be assed tonight)

    HAW VS GEEL (W)
    144 - 114

    ESS VS HAW (L)
    138-141

    HAW VS WB (W)
    147-125

    PA VS HAW (L)
    142-141

    NMFC VA HAW (W)
    127-123

    GWS VS HAW (L)
    132-137

    HAW VS MEL (W)
    128-109

    HAW VS SYD (W)
    147-144

    HAW VS GC (W)
    151-148

    STK VS HAW (W)
    119-135

    ADL VS HAW (W)
    153-143

    HAW VS ESS (W)
    134-132

    COLL VS HAW (W)
    142-122

    HAW VS FRE (W)
    123-124

    SYD VS HAW (W)
    148-132

    CARL VS HAW (W)
    113-142

    HAW VS RICH (L)
    125-146

    WCE VS HAW (W)
    148-154

    GEEL VS HAW (W)
    129-126

    HAW VS PA (L)
    122-146

    HAW VS BL (W)
    136-139

    HAW VS CARL (W)
    119-122

    WCE VS HAW (L)
    148-140

    HAW VS ADL (W)
    124-136

    FRE VS HAW (W)
    143-126

    HAW VS WCE (W)
    136-120
     
  10. Sanders

    Sanders Brownlow Medallist

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    Contested ball teams get sucked into an arm wrestle in the trenches. You have to win your share, but the secret is good disposal, moving the ball quickly to avoid getting sucked into a battle of attrition

    Good and fast disposal also means you need less chances, less opportunities #efficiency
     
  11. lunacy

    lunacy Premiership Player

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    Yes differential is key with these sort of stats not totals or even averages, because it's effected/influenced by game style.
     
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  12. Stiffy_18

    Stiffy_18 Premium Platinum

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    Precisely! That's why I have always said that with Hawthorn its the combination of winning their fair share of the contested and their efficiency once they win it. They have some of the games elite contested footy players around the ball in Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis et al so once they win it they rare follow the contested ball win with another contested possesion. They find their team mate on the outside of the pack who hits his next target and the possesion game of precise kicking to player that has burn his opponent into space continues. That is the difference between Hawks and all the other contested footy teams. Take us for example, we win the contested footy and follow it up with inefficient disposal so someone else needs to go win the contested footy again. Our contested footy approach is messy and inefficient, hence high placing in the contested footy ladder where as Hawks win the contested footy and rarely follow it up with another contested footy as they move it efficiently the first time.

    We can't really do what Hawks do because we do not have the players that can execute that game style so we need to go about it a bit differently. We have to be a great contested footy sideto give ourselves a chance. We addressed the outside run but we still need to win that contested ball battle week in week out.
     
  13. Peter J

    Peter J Brownlow Medallist

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    Great analysis :thumbsu:

    to the naked eye they often appear to lose this stat but then cover the next kick so well.

    Stats don't lie though
     
  14. Elite Crow

    Elite Crow Premium Platinum

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    And our forward line will be able to capitalise on good quick ball movement
     
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  15. Stiffy_18

    Stiffy_18 Premium Platinum

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    Following on from the contested ball comparison, here is the disposal efficiency breakdown

    HAW VS GEEL (W)
    76-72

    ESS VS HAW (L)
    77-72

    HAW VS WB (W)
    76-71

    PA VS HAW (L)
    70-73

    NMFC VA HAW (W)
    74-77

    GWS VS HAW (L)
    72-72

    HAW VS MEL (W)
    77-73

    HAW VS SYD (W)
    70-74

    HAW VS GC (W)
    76-62

    STK VS HAW (W)
    78-73

    ADL VS HAW (W)
    67-71

    HAW VS ESS (W)
    74-73

    COLL VS HAW (W)
    71-73

    HAW VS FRE (W)
    81-67

    SYD VS HAW (W)
    72-75

    CARL VS HAW (W)
    74-83

    HAW VS RICH (L)
    74-70

    WCE VS HAW (W)
    64-68

    GEEL VS HAW (W)
    75-78

    HAW VS PA (L)
    76-78

    HAW VS BL (W)
    80-68

    HAW VS CARL (W)
    80-79

    WCE VS HAW (L)
    68-67

    HAW VS ADL (W)
    78-69

    FRE VS HAW (W)
    75-79

    HAW VS WCE (W)
    78-71

    Just for giggles our best disposal efficiency game was 77% vs Essendon and worst was 58% against Fremantle. By comparison, Hawks worst was 67% against WCE and best was a staggering 83% vs Carlton and they hit the 80% mark 4 times this year. I am not sure we hit 80% even once at training.
     
  16. Elite Crow

    Elite Crow Premium Platinum

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    Intelligent recruiting, glad to see we are now also making good kicking a priority
     
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  17. Bazil838

    Bazil838 Debutant

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    Hawthorn now, Geelong recently excel at kicking to advantage, not just a great kick but a kick that gives there opponent almost no chance to get to it, very subtle difference, but the best sides can open up a stoppage or turnover to give the opportunity to get that advantage kick in.
     
  18. douglyzia

    douglyzia Club Legend

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    I would say probably a cross between Nat Fyfe, Luke Hodge and Gary Ablett.
     
  19. Wayne's-World

    Wayne's-World Hall of Famer

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    Their dogs ? ......naaahhh ..more like Nat Fyfes Hairstyle, Luke Hodges drinking, and Gary Abletts choice of girlfriends :)
     
  20. azza77

    azza77 Norm Smith Medallist

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    Seedsman said in his interview he/the club was looking to play him predominantly wing with the option to go forward or back if needed. This is exactly what I wanted to hear.

    First full pre-season (hopefully) in 3 years.

    Got high hopes for this recruit.

    Little bit iffy on Hampton. I don't know why but I just get the feeling he's not going to make it. He plays his best footy on a wing/HFF flank, where we already have the likes of Knight, Cameron, Seedsman, Menzel, Smith etc pushing for that role. A lot of competition for that role in the side and I don't think he will succeed at HBF.

    Tell you what though theres a lot of outside talent on our list now that can play that wing/HFF role. Reckon we will see Brodie permanentely off HB (or at least I hope so) and Seedsman on a Wing with them swapping for short stints.
     
  21. FR0GGY

    FR0GGY Press the button

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    whats wrong with these?
     
  22. Kane McGoodwin

    Kane McGoodwin Hall of Famer

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    Depends if you are talking senior or junior...
     
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  23. FR0GGY

    FR0GGY Press the button

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    did he mean senior?
     
  24. Wayne's-World

    Wayne's-World Hall of Famer

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    No we were talking about a cross section of skills between Fyfe, Ablett, and Hodge ......it was complementary of Abletts choices
     
  25. FR0GGY

    FR0GGY Press the button

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    Didn't sound like it