Analysis Dangerfields drop in form

[Sttew]

Funny that you list all the individual accolades he has won. If Danger had turned up more in finals we would have an extra flag.

“If Danger turned up more in finals”....like it’s his sole responsibility? I reckon he has turned up in finals more often than not

 

[geelong_crazy26]

im pretty sure that his av possesions, clearances and scores in PF as an average is higher than his HA season avs...

I know this was asserted before and the suggestion that in PF's he was no good just fell away.

I cant find the posts now but if geelong_crazy26 wants to look it up...

GO Catters

quick search shows he averaged across 9 finals matches 28.5 disposals And one goal per game ... yeah pretty horrible record right there for a midfielder in finals.
Was consistently named amongst our best across those matches as well.

have no idea what the relevance of dangerfields historical finals performances are to a specific discussion about his slight form drop so far this season ( before this week).

Just seems another troll attempt as it has no specific relevance at all to the thread really

 

[geelong_crazy26]

That's about spot on. Except I think that first Richmond final. He had no choice to do everything. Copped sh*t for it cause of his kicking, but he was the only one who made us slightly competitive for a couple of quarters.
Would of had Mots ahead of him for BOG in that Sydney final too, but he was still fantastic.

no idea what his historical finals performances have to do with this thread anyway, but overall his done well across them and is often targeted quite physically in those games.

I don’t think what has been said in this thread about his form drop is actually too dissimilar to paddy’s own mentality and that of other star players. They are perfectionists who hold themselves to extremely high competitive standards that they expect to reach week in week out.

just playing ok doesn’t go down well with them... is the wonderful thing about watching players of that elite standard. They get to where they are by sheer determination and a drive to be the best that is not subdued by mediocrity or average standards.

we saw that last week when he bounced back, and we used to see the same attitude with our champion 3 premiership side.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

We’re precious aren’t we. Throw in the yearly doozie like Selwood finished and Hawkins irrelevant. Gee I hope opposition supporters don’t read these threads.

I dont see much wrong with a thread like this one saying a player is down on form. Sure it will attract the usual “ he did nothing in finals” geelong troll but mods can deal with that as they see fit, as it stinks up the threads

People seem to get down on form muddled up with some horrendous insult... not sure if your a cricket fan, but if Ricky ponting or sachin tendulkar went out for a test series and had a few average scores ... 30’s 40’s a 60/70 or so with the bat... doing ok but not great...

People just acknowledge a champion player who is down on form... they look at the entire career statistics such as their 40 100’s and 10,000 + runs over their career. They don’t let the form slump change any of the respect for that player.

In footy I personally don’t see it any different, dangerfield is a champion of our club and if he has a few down games that doesn’t change anything and not sure why some take it as an insult or offended, but they do.

guess there is just more emotion attached to football as well.

 

[Partridge]

2017 was a mixed bag
Average (vs Richmond but had minimal impact as his disposal was poor/ his opponents were near bog)
Excellent (Sydney Bog)
Poor (Adelaide, towelled up by opposing midfielders)

Was shocking against Melbourne in the EF in 2018. Had 12 Clangers

Was good against Collingwood in 2019 QF
Was poor against West Coast SF
Dissappeared when the heat was on against Richmond in the PF

"The rest of the team played poorly as well" is not an excuse when he is our prime ball winner in the centre square. He has not had the impact on finals that is expected of a player of his talents

Edit: Had an excellent finals series in 2016 from a stats perspective. I should have acknowledged that

That's pretty accurate. Some great finals, some average, some poor. But there have definitely been some major disappointments in there - last year's Prelim for starters.

 

[Partridge]

im pretty sure that his av possesions, clearances and scores in PF as an average is higher than his HA season avs...

I know this was asserted before and the suggestion that in PF's he was no good just fell away.

I cant find the posts now but if geelong_crazy26 wants to look it up...

GO Catters

You haven't answered the question though.

Do you think his finals for Geelong have matched his normal standards?

I don't.

 

[MacStradbroke]

I dont see much wrong with a thread like this one saying a player is down on form. Sure it will attract the usual “ he did nothing in finals” geelong troll but mods can deal with that as they see fit, as it stinks up the threads

People seem to get down on form muddled up with some horrendous insult... not sure if your a cricket fan, but if Ricky ponting or sachin tendulkar went out for a test series and had a few average scores ... 30’s 40’s a 60/70 or so with the bat... doing ok but not great...

People just acknowledge a champion player who is down on form... they look at the entire career statistics such as their 40 100’s and 10,000 + runs over their career. They don’t let the form slump change any of the respect for that player.

In footy I personally don’t see it any different, dangerfield is a champion of our club and if he has a few down games that doesn’t change anything and not sure why some take it as an insult or offended, but they do.

guess there is just more emotion attached to football as well.

Yeah that’s fair all of that. All you were doing is commenting on dangers slight drop of form, not quite calling him irrelevant. Anyway, looks like he’s back to his prolific self. Some of those one handed steals from congestion Thursday night were almost taking the pi55.

 

[PhatBoy]

I think his percentage of standout performances in finals is probably slightly down on his percentage of standout performances in home and away games - but what seems to get ignored during these discussions is that EVERY finals match is played against above average opposition, especially in years when we make the top four. So mathematically it would be surprising if his percentage of standout games actually went up

 

[Cattery]

You haven't answered the question though.

Do you think his finals for Geelong have matched his normal standards?

I don't.

In a word, yes.

Aside from the West Coast game last year, and the second half against Richmond he's probably been our most consistent performer in finals.

 

[My Tilly]

Aside from the West Coast game last year, and the second half against Richmond he's probably been our most consistent performer in finals.

Selwood has easily.

 

[PhatBoy]

Selwood has easily.

since Dangerfield arrived Selwood has had 3 finals of under 20 disposals to Dangerfield’s 1. I know that’s a very basic stat but for two prime ball winners it’s a fairly important one.

 

[Partridge]

In a word, yes.

Aside from the West Coast game last year, and the second half against Richmond he's probably been our most consistent performer in finals.

We disagree then.

Because he wasn’t close to our best performer in the 2017 QF, 2017 PF, or 2018 EF either.

 

[Mr Meow]

We disagree then.

Because he wasn’t close to our best performer in the 2017 QF, 2017 PF, or 2018 EF either.

I don't have a stake in this argument but out of pure curiosity, who were our best performers in those finals? Let's say best five.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I don't have a stake in this argument but out of pure curiosity, who were our best performers in those finals? Let's say best five.

2017 QF was a shit show all round. We were just a non event. Very dissapointing. But I'd go Duncan then probs Scooter or Danger.
I reckon 70% of his kicks were turnovers or not effective but still he tried so hard. But not a great game.
2017 PF Motlop easy our best.
Then probably Selwood. (Ball use questionable.) Then probably Mackie.
Then probs Danger. Once again effort but 50% of kicks were turnovers or ineffective. Not a great game.
2018 EF. Once again a bit of a non event and everyone was a bit crap. Very dissapointing.
Liked Bews and O'Connor. Then I dunno. Ablett?
Did not like Dangers game at all that night despite the possessions. Ball use horrendous and burnt teammates.
Not a great game.
But yeah I reckon top 5 of our team in all of them even though they weren't his best games.

 

[Mr Meow]

2017 QF was a sh*t show all round. We were just a non event. Very dissapointing. But I'd go Duncan then probs Scooter or Danger.
I reckon 70% of his kicks were turnovers or not effective but still he tried so hard.
2017 PF Motlop easy our best.
Then probably Selwood. (Ball use questionable. Then probably Mackie.
Then probs Danger. Once again effort but 50% of kicks were turnovers or ineffective.
2018 EF. Once again a bit of a non event and everyone was a bit crap.
Liked Bews and O'Connor. Then I dunno. Ablett?
Did not like Dangers game at all that night despite the possessions. Ball use horrendous and burnt teammates.
But yeah I reckon top 5 of our team in all of them even though they weren't his best games.

Good post. My memory's shocking but those summations look about right. It was basically Danger dropping his levels about the same amount as the whole team. For instance I hated Ablett's 2018 EF even though he probably would still have been in the better half of our players on effort/intensity alone. Joel unfortunately was hampered by injury in 2017, crap in 2018 and then in 2019 I thought based on his current status (no longer a super hero) was pretty good overall. But the common factor of all midfielders especially in the past few finals series has been a collective dropping of bundles. Then Danger was dominating against Richmond but gets put forward second half and can barely get a touch thereafter - injury or what? In some cases either the burden of carrying the team all year got to him, or he tried too hard and overcompensated to the point where his worst attributes were actually exacerbated. I wouldn't say he's been terrible, just not as good as his H&A the past three years.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Good post. My memory's shocking but those summations look about right. It was basically Danger dropping his levels about the same amount as the whole team. For instance I hated Ablett's 2018 EF even though he probably would still have been in the better half of our players on effort/intensity alone. Joel unfortunately was hampered by injury in 2017, crap in 2018 and then in 2019 I thought based on his current status (no longer a super hero) was pretty good overall. But the common factor of all midfielders especially in the past few finals series has been a collective dropping of bundles. Then Danger was dominating against Richmond but gets put forward second half and can barely get a touch thereafter - injury or what? In some cases either the burden of carrying the team all year got to him, or he tried too hard and overcompensated to the point where his worst attributes were actually exacerbated. I wouldn't say he's been terrible, just not as good as his H&A the past three years.

Yeah I would say exactly the same. At least the effort is there.
People won't enjoy this but the only players overall I think have been at their H&A level or better I reckon are Guthrie and Bews.
All others on their overall finals performance have dropped from their H&A performance.

 

[Mr Meow]

Yeah I would say exactly the same. At least the effort is there.
People won't enjoy this but the only players overall I think have been at their H&A level or better I reckon are Guthrie and Bews.
All others on their overall finals performance have dropped from their H&A performance.

Haha it's so true. Don't even get me started on Mitch Duncan, who I actually really like as a player but he just ain't had a good time in finals. The thing is the team actually had 8 pretty good consecutive finals quarters last season. But they were bookended by another inexcusably terrible start against Collingwood and then dying in the arse against Richmond after failing to get the 8 goal match winning half time lead they should have.

There just haven't been "four quarters" finals players on our list - either they are looking meek or the ones busting their arse have been error riddled/sloppy with ball in hand.

I'm getting slightly off topic here but I guess that main point is just that Danger has a whole bunch of team mates dropping their levels as much or more in finals.

 

[Partridge]

Haha it's so true. Don't even get me started on Mitch Duncan, who I actually really like as a player but he just ain't had a good time in finals. The thing is the team actually had 8 pretty good consecutive finals quarters last season. But they were bookended by another inexcusably terrible start against Collingwood and then dying in the arse against Richmond after failing to get the 8 goal match winning half time lead they should have.

There just haven't been "four quarters" finals players on our list - either they are looking meek or the ones busting their arse have been error riddled/sloppy with ball in hand.

I'm getting slightly off topic here but I guess that main point is just that Danger has a whole bunch of team mates dropping their levels as much or more in finals.

No doubt. But there is truth in both statements. Dangerfield's finals performances have been inconsistent with us, but no way is he worst culprit, or close to being the only one.

 

[Warhorse]

In a word, yes.

Aside from the West Coast game last year, and the second half against Richmond he's probably been our most consistent performer in finals.

I suggest turning the TV on next time you are watching the footy

 

[Warhorse]

Is time to leave him in the forwardline / HFF?

Danger Getting 2/3 goals a game would be invaluable.

He was slaughtered in the midfield last night and his disposal had little effect

 

[Sttew]

Is time to leave him in the forwardline / HFF?

Danger Getting 2/3 goals a game would be invaluable.

He was slaughtered in the midfield last night and his disposal had little effect

Slaughtered in the midfield? What are you on?

 

[Partridge]

Is time to leave him in the forwardline / HFF?

Danger Getting 2/3 goals a game would be invaluable.

He was slaughtered in the midfield last night and his disposal had little effect

Problem is he’s not going to get 2-3 goals a game. Particularly this year.

He has to play midfield. He wasn’t slaughtered, but although he tried hard he wasn’t very effective and his opponents were very damaging.

 

[Cursed Cat]

The gap between Dangerfield's best and worst games comes down purely to execution of skills; his effort is always very good and he usually gets his hands on the ball enough to have an impact - whether that impact is a positive or a negative one is predicated on the quality of his disposal.

I can accept that he is often under a great deal of physical pressure from the opposition, it is just the nature of the type of possessions he accumulates - but some of those efforts are all but pointless, it is all very well going in hard and low, but sometimes it is better to play it a bit smarter. To play like he does requires total commitment and that willingness to hit packs hard understandably impacts his decision-making at times

Dangerfield is supremely gifted in an athletic sense, but his footy IQ doesn't match his physical advantages.

He's no different to a lot of players far less gifted than he in that once he is missing targets and making bad decisions he becomes a liability; i.e. he still gets a lot of the ball but does not put it to Geelong's advantage.

I understand that when he is up and going he is clearly our best midfielder, but there are days when I wish he was played deeper in our forward line so that the range of decisions he is asked to make in-game is reduced to 'shot at goal' or 'get the ball to a teammate's advantage'.

I'd have tried him as a CHF before now, but then again we arguably don't have the midfield resources to cover his absence - who'd get it to him?

It's a conundrum; he's a match-winner at his best but a bad Dangerfield day can be disastrous for the team ..

 

[Down at K Park]

Hard to play him forward when his goal kicking is so erratic.

 

[Chinacats]

Hard to play him forward when his goal kicking is so erratic.

Agree he can’t kick for goal. Certainly no dusty skill wise.