Injury Daniel Menzel - third (partially) ruptured ACL

[FredLeDeux]

While the herald sun is at it with retracting the "exclusive" statement from their article, is there any chance the AFL can change the opening statement on theirs?

How has he had 2 failed knee recos? He had a reco on his right knee in 2011 and from everything reported has had no troubles with that since, while he had a partial tear in the repaired left knee but doesn't sound like it completely tore again. So maybe a 50% or 75% failure in 1 one of the reconstructions, but not sure you can be stating he has had 2 failed knee recos when he hasn't had to have both knees each go through another reconstruction.

Should have been headed "Menzel Has Op On Third Knee"

 

[AM]

LARS worked well for his brother. Cant be any worse then his natural "rubber band" ligaments. Time to start rolling some dice and getting him on the field, regular ACL surgery is obviously failing him.

It's more that it's his third time under the knife in such a short period. Throw in that the last issue occurred at training and it's reasonable to express some concern. Really feel for him. We all hope things take a turn for the better as the kid can play.

 

[Tas]

It's more that it's his third time under the knife in such a short period. Throw in that the last issue occurred at training and it's reasonable to express some concern. Really feel for him. We all hope things take a turn for the better as the kid can play.

The problem is the preferred tendon for a traditional ACL reconstruction is the patella tendon, it is stronger than the ACL by approximately 36% but takes about 18 months to grow back and isn't as strong once it grows back so going back to that well is limited.

A quad graft hamstring reconstruction is more than twice as strong as a regular ACL, if that fails then you would have to question the viability of any kind of natural replacement tendon/ligament. He might have some biomechanical flaw which is going to pop any natural type of ligament or tendon.

Even though LARS is not a great solution as it is only a matter of time until a LARS goes, it might be strong enough to hold up for him given they use an artificial ligament.

I hope LARS works for him, sad to see talented kids stricken down by injuries.

 

[AM]

The problem is the preferred tendon for a traditional ACL reconstruction is the patella tendon, it is stronger than the ACL by approximately 36% but takes about 18 months to grow back and isn't as strong once it grows back so going back to that well is limited.

A quad graft hamstring reconstruction is more than twice as strong as a regular ACL, if that fails then you would have to question the viability of any kind of natural replacement tendon/ligament. He might have some biomechanical flaw which is going to pop any natural type of ligament or tendon.

Even though LARS is not a great solution as it is only a matter of time until a LARS goes, it might be strong enough to hold up for him given they use an artificial ligament.

I hope LARS works for him, sad to see talented kids stricken down by injuries.

Thanks for that explanation. The bolded is the bit that worries me.

 

[Vdubs]

The problem is the preferred tendon for a traditional ACL reconstruction is the patella tendon, it is stronger than the ACL by approximately 36% but takes about 18 months to grow back and isn't as strong once it grows back so going back to that well is limited.

A quad graft hamstring reconstruction is more than twice as strong as a regular ACL, if that fails then you would have to question the viability of any kind of natural replacement tendon/ligament. He might have some biomechanical flaw which is going to pop any natural type of ligament or tendon.

Even though LARS is not a great solution as it is only a matter of time until a LARS goes, it might be strong enough to hold up for him given they use an artificial ligament.

I hope LARS works for him, sad to see talented kids stricken down by injuries.

The LARS has been used to augment or supplement the partially torn Hamstring graft in Menzel's case.LARS is only meant to be used if there is some residual healthy ACL remaining. Orthopods tend to use the hamstring quadruple graft because of less post op disability, and as you say, the patellar tendon graft takes longer to rehab and recover. The hamstrings regenerate more favourably too. Using the patellar tendon can interfere with the kneecap function somewhat as well in some cases. Some of us can recall Michael Long rupturing his patellar tendon , the one that was used for his ACL reconstruction several years ago, v Geelong.

I am hopeful that if it was only a partial tear, have used the LARS to strengthen / support what was reconstructed, that he should have some success. There are very few precedents for what DM has been through. Morabito comes close, having the LARS for his 3rd reco on the SAME knee.
Really feel for these young talents who have so much to offer and so little opportunity , so far , to do so. No wonder the adage of playing each game like it could be your last holds true.

 

[The rabbi]

F***.

Reminds me of Marc Woolnough.

What number did Woolnough wear?

 

[AM]

The LARS has been used to augment or supplement the partially torn Hamstring graft in Menzel's case.LARS is only meant to be used if there is some residual healthy ACL remaining. Orthopods tend to use the hamstring quadruple graft because of less post op disability, and as you say, the patellar tendon graft takes longer to rehab and recover. The hamstrings regenerate more favourably too. Using the patellar tendon can interfere with the kneecap function somewhat as well in some cases. Some of us can recall Michael Long rupturing his patellar tendon , the one that was used for his ACL reconstruction several years ago, v Geelong.

I am hopeful that if it was only a partial tear, have used the LARS to strengthen / support what was reconstructed, that he should have some success. There are very few precedents for what DM has been through. Morabito comes close, having the LARS for his 3rd reco on the SAME knee.
Really feel for these young talents who have so much to offer and so little opportunity , so far , to do so. No wonder the adage of playing each game like it could be your last holds true.

"It turned out Menzel had only ruptured two thirds of the ACL which was a positive in terms of the LARS procedure."

From HS

 

[FredLeDeux]

What number did Woolnough wear?

Yeah, F&S. And Sharrock.

 

[FromDawn2Dark]

This is informative

http://www.drpeterlarkins.com/2012/03/lars-ligament-surgery-why-all-the-fuss/

Thanks for the link, very informative.

I can't imagine where he is at mentally, but if he over comes this he can overcome anything. There is some success with the LARS so hopefully the team can surprise this year and Menz can help take us back towards the top.

 

[CharacterFirst]

I hope no one is surprised about this setback. "We" were all prepared early on in this thread.

Anyway, all the best to Dan.

 

[Catswin12]

F for the obvious..

 

[Jon Douglas]

As I wrote in a thread a week or so ago (re JHunt) - everytime I read a paper at breakfast time - it has bad news for the Cats. Made my stomach turn when I read the news of Dan.

We have really had some crappy injuries at Catland in the last decade or so. This maybe up there with Egan's loss to the club and game.

I still feel sick thinking about this situation.

 

[Vdubs]

Yeah, F&S. And Sharrock.

And TENace

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Too many people are focusing on the negatives. Yes, its a terrible set of events that Dan has had to endure over the last 18 months or so, but surely if he can stay positive so can we.

The positives I took from that was that he's been given the all clear and he's back to running now.

And I can understand the club keeping this quiet, at least in the short term. While we can all applaud Dan for his attitude throughout this, I'm sure he's been equally scared and frustrated behind closed doors. Any medical professional will tell you that a patient's mental state can affect the healing process. The club were just making sure that Dan was in the right head space first.

It is understandable, but what you're talking about is withholding the truth about the reco and the LARS. Essentially non disclosure. There's a big difference between that and actively going out there and making up stuff you know is lying, such as when Balme and the assistants come out and say there's no significant damage, and he's still likely for round 1 and so on. What they really should have done is to say there was a setback, and they didn't have a timeframe yet and would provide further details at a later date once available. While the club's actions were noble in protecting Menz, the consequence is likely to be that the supporters have a lack of trust in the club's provision of information, particularly given it's previous poor record about providing accurate info re injuries. That's unfortunate.

Anyway, back to Menz, just hope we aren't seeing another Egan type scenario. He certainly sounds mentally positive about it all which is a very good sign, just a matter of whether this graft can hold better than the others did. We can only hope for the best, and support him.

 

[fpm84]

For what it's worth,I think he'll be ok. I saw him at training on Tuesday, doing kicking drills and goal kicking practice with Cowan. He was moving freely, his knee was not strapped or swollen and he was in good spirits on the track and with supporters.

I'll be happy if we get 8-10 senior games from him this year (of course, more would be amazing) and expect he will have his sights on 2014 to finally have a full preseason and play 22+ games.

 

[meto]

Can't wait till we get him back......we need that strong medium goalkicker sooo bad!

 

[sarah.13]

No-one is supporting Balme, they are supporting Dans wish to keep it private so he could mentally deal with the setback. Balme was just doing what his player wanted.

This sums it up perfectly for me.
Menzels wishes far outweight our thirst for information on the injury updates of our players.
The guy has gone through a horrendous 18 months and deserves his wishes for time and space to deal with his injuries to be respected. This is what Balme and the club has done.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

What number did Woolnough wear?

I never even thought of that. Ouch, number is cursed with injury or mediocrity. Retire it immediately and put Menz into #99 or something untainted!*


*only semi-joking

 

[David the Cat]

This sums it up perfectly for me.
Menzels wishes far outweight our thirst for information on the injury updates of our players.
The guy has gone through a horrendous 18 months and deserves his wishes for time and space to deal with his injuries to be respected. This is what Balme and the club has done.

This post deserves more than just a "like". Menzel's right to privacy is paramount.

 

[you pick one]

Some one in his family die?he had a set back in his rehab from an injury for Christ sake,poor Dan respect his wishes give me a break how mentally soft is he.
people deal with shit every day, a pampered lot todays footballers.

 

[AM]

Some one in his family die?he had a set back in his rehab from an injury for Christ sake,poor Dan respect his wishes give me a break how mentally soft is he.
people deal with shit every day, a pampered lot todays footballers.

We each deal with what life throws up differently. Don't be so judgemental.

 

[Vdubs]

Some one in his family die?he had a set back in his rehab from an injury for Christ sake,poor Dan respect his wishes give me a break how mentally soft is he.
people deal with shit every day, a pampered lot todays footballers.

Bizarre.
You do realise it was in the media weeks ago that the LARS had been done.
It's only this week we have the full story, but his reaction is 100% justifiable. It was only January after all. And what he's been through is rare; we are fortunate he appears to be still so buoyant and going for it.

 

[sarah.13]

Some one in his family die?he had a set back in his rehab from an injury for Christ sake,poor Dan respect his wishes give me a break how mentally soft is he.
people deal with shit every day, a pampered lot todays footballers.

You can't be serious surely, The boy is 21 has had 3 knee ops in 18 months, potentially ending his career, his dream and the biggest thing in his life. Yes people deal with shit every day'but this is life changing shit.
Why should it be splashed all over the media for total strangers to comment until he is ready to let his feelings out.
He must have been under tremendous strain and yet he is doing it all over again.
I would suggest that he has more mental strength than the poeple taking pot shots at him for keeping his medical state quiet until he is ready. The club cares about him far more than keeping Big Footy posters informed, as they should !

 

[AM]

You can't be serious surely, The boy is 21 has had 3 knee ops in 18 months, potentially ending his career, his dream and the biggest thing in his life. Yes people deal with shit every day'but this is life changing shit.
Why should it be splashed all over the media for total strangers to comment until he is ready to let his feelings out.
He must have been under tremendous strain and yet he is doing it all over again.
I would suggest that he has more mental strength than the poeple taking pot shots at him for keeping his medical state quiet until he is ready. The club cares about him far more than keeping Big Footy posters informed, as they should !

Nicely put.

Two significant ops in 18 months followed by long periods of rehab each time and now a 3rd less serious one. He’s coped with it all remarkably well for a kid and done so largely in the absence of family support due to distance. Coping with not only the physical strain but the psychological strain and having done it so well is a credit to him and to the club for their management.

 

[you pick one]

Bizarre.
You do realise it was in the media weeks ago that the LARS had been done.
It's only this week we have the full story, but his reaction is 100% justifiable. It was only January after all. And what he's been through is rare; we are fortunate he appears to be still so buoyant and going for it.

I didn't see any mention of Lars weeks ago do you have a link.