The Law Daniel Morcombe breakthrough.

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rayven

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The man, who will remain in police custody until his court appearance in Brisbane Magistrate's Court on Monday, has been charged with murder, deprivation of liberty, child stealing, indecent treatment of a child and interfering with a corpse
The guy wont be put in general population when convicted, which unfortunatly leads less of these people to commit suicide when they come to terms with who they are.

The parents will read these charges, something that should not happen.
 

blackcat

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Having said all that, if you remove Australian Story from the discussion, I would argue with the proposition that the level of publicity generated by Daniel Morcombe case was an inversion of 'missing white girl' syndrome.

I think the way Daniel dissapeared played a big part in it in terms of connecting with the public....a young child out catching a bus to buy Christmas presents just vanishes from the streets....its plainly emotive.

The sheer mystery of what happened aspect also likely played a role.
this is actually a clearer take. They did rouse local community. emphasis on community. Not to get all utilitarian, but the thousands of missing people, rarely see traction in your media, yet this case is latched on to with grappling hooks,
 

Bombers_Forever

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Well done to the police investigators for never giving up on the case. Tragic end to the story but hopefully there will some closure and allow the family to give him a proper farewell. So many missing children cases like this result in a cold case and a body is never found.
 

Freo Big Fella

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Not sure what was shown in QLD, but Nine News Perth breached an apparent suppression order over the suspects identity tonight and detailed his criminal record.

Not sure what we can and can't post here due to legalities, but he sounds like a particularly nasty piece of work.
 

RisingPhoenix

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Not sure what was shown in QLD, but Nine News Perth breached an apparent suppression order over the suspects identity tonight and detailed his criminal record.

Not sure what we can and can't post here due to legalities, but he sounds like a particularly nasty piece of work.
Indeed.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/p7-stoned-in-morcombe-inquest-20110401-1crbx.html

"P7 has spent time in jail in Queensland and the Northern Territory for luring children into toilets or bushland so he could molest them, the court has heard".

"He began sexually assaulting small children at a swimming pool while he was at primary school, the inquest has been told".
 

Pie eyed

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So bloody sad for those parents. I know a forensics team is searching bushland in the Glasshouse Mountains area. I hope they find Daniel so that at least his parents won't have that agony of not knowing...

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2011/08/15/morcombes-letter-thanks-all/
Agree. A nightmare for a parent not having no closure.
I find it extremely hard to imagine how you can handle these types of tragedies as a parent. My hats off to them.
 

rayven

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Bones found last week have been identified as that of the missing boy.

Apparantly it was testing By Adelaide forensic experts that confirmed this.

I wonder how Clinton Trezise's family feel about that? If anyone doesn't know he was the first victim of the snowtown killers (they ended up getting an even dozen) and his body was found buried out at Lower Light by a farmer, Adelaide forensic investigators said it didn't belong to Clinton trezise who was a missing person...
Had they correctly identified they would of known who his associates were...could of stopped a heap of deaths.

Ironic.
 

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PP34

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Finally some closure for the family. R.I.P Daniel you never deserved any of this. I hope the bastard who did this rots in jail for the remainder of his life.
 

skilts

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Really important for the parents I think.
It's hard to imagine the ordeal, not knowing.
You've got to feel for the parents. First the disappearance. Then the not knowing, but fearing the worst. Then, eventually, the worst is confirmed.

What most occupies my mind though, is the hideousness suffered by the kid before he died. I just can't encompass the concept that somebody could justify in their own mind that they should do this. Whoever did it is surely not a part of the genus I've inherited. Then again, there's a distinct element of humanity in the opportunistic consigning of another to the status of a mere object. An object whose sole purpose is your self-gratification.

It's enough to turn you right off people.
 

Pie eyed

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You've got to feel for the parents. First the disappearance. Then the not knowing, but fearing the worst. Then, eventually, the worst is confirmed.

What most occupies my mind though, is the hideousness suffered by the kid before he died. I just can't encompass the concept that somebody could justify in their own mind that they should do this. Whoever did it is surely not a part of the genus I've inherited. Then again, there's a distinct element of humanity in the opportunistic consigning of another to the status of a mere object. An object whose sole purpose is your self-gratification.

It's enough to turn you right off people.
Anita Cobby's father Gary Lynch sat through every minute of his daughters murderers trial.Heard every detail of the atrocities visited upon her.

Hard to conceive how you handle this mentally.
 

skilts

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Hard to conceive how you handle this mentally.
His dad presents as an extraordinary person. He may be bulls**tting, but I'd prefer to believe that the alleged, inevitable catastrophe of a destroyed life in such circumstances can be overcome. I'm put in mind of that Adelaide magistrate whose son was murdered in Bali.

We are a resilient mob, if we are able. If not, I shudder to think about the inevitability of outcomes in cases such as this. His dad is a better person than the murderer, as was his kid. If this proves to be untrue, we really are in the realm of nihilism.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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I just can't encompass the concept that somebody could justify in their own mind that they should do this. Whoever did it is surely not a part of the genus I've inherited. Then again, there's a distinct element of humanity in the opportunistic consigning of another to the status of a mere object. An object whose sole purpose is your self-gratification.
That's it, though. Are monsters born, or are they created? Can you prevent a monster's psyche from taking root through early intervention in a child's traumatic early years?

Brett Cowan - what was his childhood like? Was he molested himself? I'm not so much trying to paint the alleged murderer as victim, but these kinds of questions could prevent all kinds of horror who knows how many years down the road.
 

skilts

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That's it, though. Are monsters born, or are they created? Can you prevent a monster's psyche from taking root through early intervention in a child's traumatic early years?

Brett Cowan - what was his childhood like? Was he molested himself? I'm not so much trying to paint the alleged murderer as victim, but these kinds of questions could prevent all kinds of horror who knows how many years down the road.

Does it really matter? The outcome is the same. Despite your belief in the efficacy of some sort of intervention, some people are just pudenda.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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Anything that averts that outcome in the future - the dead child, the corpse 'interfered with', the grieving parents - should be looked into, in my opinion. A hard thing to do, with so many abuses going unreported every day.

But think of it this way. Take Paul Denyer for instance. He's on the record as saying he hated women in general. Then he wanted a gender reassignment in while in prison to become one. Did psychological trauma early in his choldhood contribute to the murder of at least 3 women in Frankstonn in the 1990's?

You'd better believe it;

http://www.uplink.com.au/lawlibrary/Documents/Docs/Doc58.html

We can infer from Paul Denyer’s childhood that he did feel empowered to take the life of someone else due to the fact that he needed to avenge the sexual abuse metered out to him as a child by his brother. The urge to kill had surfaced at the age of 14 and finally materialized at the age of 21.

Whilst his method of killing was mainly psychopathic he still enjoyed the dominance he had over his female victims and he enjoyed knowing that their fate was in his hands. It was revealed during interviews with Denyer that he was an unpopular person devoid of friends and in a very straight-faced manner admitted to detectives "I’m a killer!"...

...In the study of such a contentious area of homicide it is important for us to try and gain some background into similarities between serial killers behavioural make up. According to Cook & Hindman, (1999) serial killers grow up in dysfunctional families, often have a history of abuse and neglect that is either physical, psychological or sexual. Sears (1991) states that serial killers grow up surrounded by poverty and unemployment, a preoccupation with fantasy and murder and learned associations between violence and pleasure. According to Megargee, (1993) combinations of these factors lead to some persons engaging in serial murder. The important point here is that not all people who display such behaviour will end up as serial killers or any type of killer. It is also imperative to draw parallels with the domestic violence offender, who as it has been well documented may have suffered abuse as a child.

If a child is brought up in an abusive household then they are more likely to respond to stress with violence which can sometimes lead to homicide. Several researches such as Ressler, Burgess, and Douglas (1988), Norris (1988), Fox and Levine (1985 cited in McKenzie) and Wilson and Seaman (1990) offer empirical data that link serial killers behaviourally. However most have only hinted at the possibility that certain factors in the childhood environment act as an incubator and exaggerate childhood behaviours and basic personality tendencies so that when adulthood is reached in the presence of specific disinhibitors, these already exaggerated tendencies run amok.

Another important factor mentioned by Ressler et al is the fact that many serial killers seem to have problems with relationships. That is their relationships to their families were often strained and sometimes non-existent, and many were not taught how to deal with other people. According to Ressler, the early life attachments translate into a map of how the child will perceive situations outside the family. Therefore if the child is not taught to value one self and ones family they will therefore find it difficult to value the life of others. In other forms of homicide, childhood factors and early life attachments especially where power and violence are concerned can be linked to murderous behaviour latter in life...
Now, the thrust of my argument is NOT to argue that sympathy for the killer is warranted. However, at least in cases brought to the attention of child services, early intevention and psychological rehabilitation for these child victims may prevent the mind of a future killer from developing.

I know someone who'd been abused as a child. The damage is still within and always will be, but they're engaging with people instead of having all this impotent rage bottled up inside. They have friends. I haven't discussed this side of things with them, but in most of these cases it's a psychologically damaged person damaging others, and the vicious cycle continues unless it is broken.

Broken kids, recovering from abuse. They're like broken soldiers, returning from a war. Post-traumatic wounds will only fester and infect unless they're looked after. Someone's got to help fix these problems, and it's in society's best interest to do so.

Can you see what I'm saying?
 

skilts

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Anything that averts that outcome in the future - the dead child, the corpse 'interfered with', the grieving parents - should be looked into, in my opinion. A hard thing to do, with so many abuses going unreported every day.

But think of it this way. Take Paul Denyer for instance. He's on the record as saying he hated women in general. Then he wanted a gender reassignment in while in prison to become one. Did psychological trauma early in his choldhood contribute to the murder of at least 3 women in Frankstonn in the 1990's?

You'd better believe it;



Now, the thrust of my argument is NOT to argue that sympathy for the killer is warranted. However, at least in cases brought to the attention of child services, early intevention and psychological rehabilitation for these child victims may prevent the mind of a future killer from developing.

I know someone who'd been abused as a child. The damage is still within and always will be, but they're engaging with people instead of having all this impotent rage bottled up inside. They have friends. I haven't discussed this side of things with them, but in most of these cases it's a psychologically damaged person damaging others, and the vicious cycle continues unless it is broken.

Broken kids, recovering from abuse. They're like broken soldiers, returning from a war. Post-traumatic wounds will only fester and infect unless they're looked after. Someone's got to help fix these problems, and it's in society's best interest to do so.

Can you see what I'm saying?
I understand what you're saying, however, I'm unconvinced of the efficacy of the solution you suggest. It might make people feel better to be able to think that there is an answer to every problem, but the fact is there are some people, possibly ones like this alleged perpetrator, who would laugh in the face of some psychologist or psychiatrist. If this bloke is responsible for this murder, the reason he has got away with it for so long is the very fact that he mustn't have presented as a person likely to commit such a crime.

Assuming what you say is correct, about this alleged murderer, and he was the victim of some sort of abuse himself, how do you account for others who have endured similar mistreatment, who end up being productive and responsible citizens?

Just because we identify a problem doesn't necessarily mean we are able to make it go away. The rarity of such crimes means it will nearly always cause surprise, closely followed by horror. Life would be impossible to continue if every waking moment were to be directed towards addressing this, or similar unlikely occurences. This is not to say that the effects on this particular boy's family are in any way lessened.

Apart from anything else, there is a distinct possibility that this bloke was not the recipient of the treatment you suggest during his own childhood. We simply don't know at this stage. To me, an equally plausible scenario would be that the alleged offender picked the boy up, possibly with a view to having sex with him, and it all went horribly wrong, but I don't really know. A point may have been reached in the episode where a not-very-bright man realised that the boy would have been able to identify him, so he made sure that couldn't happen. Who knows?

I think it distinctly possible we may never receive any sort of explanation for what happened, especially if the charged man maintains his innocence and refuses to give evidence.

Your reference to Denyer embodies assumptions about the accused in this case also being a serial killer. I've not heard or read any evidence to support any such similarity between the two cases.
 

Geelong_Sicko

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Yeah, fair enough Skilts. I probably was inferring a bit too much with the Denyer/Cowan link.

Some people probably are born that way. Something just isn't 'normal' in their right/wrong decisionmaking and it would prove impossible to find and weed all of these people out of society.

This case just kind of 'got' to me and I've been overthinking about it all.
 

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Assuming what you say is correct, about this alleged murderer, and he was the victim of some sort of abuse himself, how do you account for others who have endured similar mistreatment, who end up being productive and responsible citizens?
Look at it the other way.

What are the stats on abusers? How many were abused themselves?

If abused is not abuser, does not mean abuser was not abused.
 

skilts

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Look at it the other way.

What are the stats on abusers? How many were abused themselves?

If abused is not abuser, does not mean abuser was not abused.
If you think you're arguing against what I said with this, you're barking up the wrong tree. I wasn't denying that these people were abused, I was merely saying that there is no inevitability about how one reacts to such treatment.

I would think it equally likely that somebody who had themselves been abused would be reviled by the idea of perpetuating a similar cycle of mistreatment of others. There is no standard response to stimuli.
 

MacMum

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Some people are just born evil...pure and simple..just bad to the bone as they say..

...to use the excuse they were mistreated as a child defies my logic....if they didn't like being treated that way themselves, why treat another child/person that way?..

Most of the excuses are just cop outs for being straight out evil..

..please note: I did say some people
 

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