Welcome Darcy Fogarty, AFC Pick 12 in the 2017 draft!

How many AFL matches do you think Darcy Fogarty will play in 2018?

  • 16+ games

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It depends on form, injuries blah blah why even bother posting about the season or footy in general

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    78
  • Poll closed .

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Golumless

I'm kind of a big deal on the east side
Jul 12, 2013
28,143
32,838
Wherever the ESH clubrooms are
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Adelaide
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Newcastle, Rockies, Oceanics
Fog is as far from Lynch as he is from Betts. Doesn't have the tank or the mobility. He's closer to JJ & Tex. But when JJ was dropped, Fogs form was worse.
Not at all. Lynch is primarily a third tall with no other positional role on the team so with some adaptation to how we structure up, that was a prime opportunity. Arguably having that third target may have been the difference against West Coast in particular as Tex, and JJ were stifled.

JJ has that secondary positional role which Fog doesn't so they are not in competition.
 

Southerntakeover

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 21, 2006
29,797
19,257
At vB temple...
AFL Club
Adelaide
Common sense is on my side. You have a pre-existing view that the club acted incompetently, and you only want to twist things to suit your view. That sense of narrowminded bias blinds you to some clear facts.

1. Geelong had more money coming out of contract than us in 2015 - by more count, it included Jimmy Bartel, Corey Enright, Steve Johnson, James Kelly, Tom Lonergan, Andrew Mackie, Hamish McIntosh, Jared Rivers and Mathew Stokes.

McIntosh, Rivers, Stevie J and Stokes were all delisted - Bartle and Enright were given one more year, but could EASILY have not been given that, and Zac Smith could have not been signed. Geelong had MASSIVE more salary upside than the Crows. That is the obvious sledge hammer they held.

2. If they chose to make a $1.4m offer to Dangerfield, we couldn't have matched. We didn't have enough large contracts ending.

They didn't want to, we knew that, and we used that to get better value from them in picks. But if we'd said "we want three firsts" (or whatever), they would have shrugged their shoulders and walked away. That's what negotiations are.

3. My feelings on the draft are based on what actually occured. It's based on the facts that Milera had an excellent year, much better than Rioli, and it seems crazy to just assume the world would roll over and have let him fall into our lap picks later.

"Oh, we could have just got him later" is the kind of unprovable wishful thinking that it's impossible to support.
So you're making the exact same unsubstantiated assertions, but this time in bold? The issue a difficulty understanding your assertions- it was that they're made up.

They did not offer Dangerfield 1.4 million.

And even if we were going to accept your assertions about the particular figures- which I'm not, they're made up and you have precisely no idea the money that the remaining players were on (it's highly implausible that Bartel was on large money in his final year for example), it's not at that point simply a matter of dedicating all of that money to Dangerfield- internal relativities were highly likely to be a factor- i.e. other players are likely to object to another player (particularly one without tenure) earning that much more than them.

But the most telling, and in my view fatal, blow against your fiction is the idea that Dangerfield played along with this to the effect of dis-entitling himself to somewhere in the amount of half of the salary that he could have extracted. That he knew he could seek substantially more money which was easily available, but chose not to because *shrug*. $600,000k left on the table, for no reason whatsoever.

And this is somehow more plausible than simply looking at what actually occurred- the money that was agreed, and applying Occams razor- that Dangerfield took the deal because he understood that it was the best deal that could be extracted from Geelong, who had a maximum amount that they could pay without running into other difficulties.

I'm not sure I really need to deal with your draft rantings much more than to say that when you start an argument by saying that your position is 'based upon what actually occured', the ordinary convention would be to follow with a description of events that actually occured, and not an entirely made up hypothetical. What you're suggesting is not what actually occurred. It's what you tell us must inevitably have happened. Except there's no real reason to think it was inevitable at all.
 
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Southerntakeover

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 21, 2006
29,797
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At vB temple...
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Adelaide
Exactly, didn't look like they were ever going to get a game early on as they were back in the pecking order but they eventually found their way into the team. He just needs to be patient and keep working on his deficiencies and he will get his chance.
The thing is though, that he doesnt need to do that. He'll get access to AFL football, whether from us or someone else.

There's a really delusional idea that floats around our club sometimes that highly talented players need us more than we need them- it's never been true.
 

Crowhorse

Team Captain
Sep 22, 2014
552
527
AFL Club
Adelaide
Our handling of Fog has been atrocious this year. He'll leave, and what's more he should if he had any self respect.

It will be very small comfort to me, in years to come when I'm stuck watching him dominate for Hawthorn or the like, to know that I've been dead right about this. :huh:
AFC haven’t really landed with his development. But he hasn’t landed his SANFL performances either. If I were him I would be telling coaching staff to GAGF and just start dominating. That’s what Tex did and look what resulted.
 

Southerntakeover

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 21, 2006
29,797
19,257
At vB temple...
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Tex was luckier- his development in the SANFL was taken out of our hands.

Norwood weren't stupid enough to try to make him a defender mid season, then switch him back.

Fans who are complaining about his not dominating, when we went out of our way to bugger the kid around against any sensibility, have lost their minds.
 

mcattack

All Australian
Apr 14, 2019
611
446
AFL Club
Adelaide
AFC haven’t really landed with his development. But he hasn’t landed his SANFL performances either. If I were him I would be telling coaching staff to go away and just start dominating. That’s what Tex did and look what resulted.
Imo trying to turn him into a backman wasted half a season and would have affected his confidence. Gets a chance this week at ff with less talls around. Hopefully kicks 4 or 5 and marks everything.
 

Bicks

Cancelled
Jun 10, 2009
29,795
44,882
Victorian Central Highlands
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Adelaide
Other Teams
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To put it simply, at this point in time Darcy's SANFL form does not warrant an AFL game, people can spin it any which way they like but the reason he's not playing AFL right now is pretty much form related. His last game was better than the previous few so hopefully he's on the improve and that continues in following games.
 

Crowhorse

Team Captain
Sep 22, 2014
552
527
AFL Club
Adelaide
Tex was luckier- his development in the SANFL was taken out of our hands.

Norwood weren't stupid enough to try to make him a defender mid season, then switch him back.

Fans who are complaining about his not dominating, when we went out of our way to bugger the kid around against any sensibility, have lost their minds.
Well that is what is going to suffer with in house only development. AFC need to acknowledge that building form in a half baked reserves team which at times contain too many amateur fill ins is difficult to do.

Seen more young guys get a go this year but selecting guys who are finished like Dougie is a costly exercise against player development.
 

mcattack

All Australian
Apr 14, 2019
611
446
AFL Club
Adelaide
Well that is what is going to suffer with in house only development. AFC need to acknowledge that building form in a half baked reserves team which at times contain too many amateur fill ins is difficult to do.

Seen more young guys get a go this year but selecting guys who are finished like Dougie is a costly exercise against player development.
I don't mind giving Dougie a couple of games if form warrants it. Former club champ deserves a graceful exit from the club. But yeah clearly isn't the future. Fog does have to step up if he wants to be selected.
 

Red mist

Reynholm Industries
Jun 30, 2014
25,912
32,365
The Winchester
AFL Club
Adelaide
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Tottenham Hotspur, East Side Hawks
To put it simply, at this point in time Darcy's SANFL form does not warrant an AFL game, people can spin it any which way they like but the reason he's not playing AFL right now is pretty much form related. His last game was better than the previous few so hopefully he's on the improve and that continues in following games.
Look at McCartin.
 

Sanders

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 1, 2012
27,382
37,377
AFL Club
Adelaide
Common sense is on my side. You have a pre-existing view that the club acted incompetently, and you only want to twist things to suit your view. That sense of narrowminded bias blinds you to some clear facts.

1. Geelong had more money coming out of contract than us in 2015 - by more count, it included Jimmy Bartel, Corey Enright, Steve Johnson, James Kelly, Tom Lonergan, Andrew Mackie, Hamish McIntosh, Jared Rivers and Mathew Stokes.

McIntosh, Rivers, Stevie J and Stokes were all delisted - Bartle and Enright were given one more year, but could EASILY have not been given that, and Zac Smith could have not been signed. Geelong had MASSIVE more salary upside than the Crows. That is the obvious sledge hammer they held.

2. If they chose to make a $1.4m offer to Dangerfield, we couldn't have matched. We didn't have enough large contracts ending.

They didn't want to, we knew that, and we used that to get better value from them in picks. But if we'd said "we want three firsts" (or whatever), they would have shrugged their shoulders and walked away. That's what negotiations are.

3. My feelings on the draft are based on what actually occured. It's based on the facts that Milera had an excellent year, much better than Rioli, and it seems crazy to just assume the world would roll over and have let him fall into our lap picks later.

"Oh, we could have just got him later" is the kind of unprovable wishful thinking that it's impossible to support.
why didn't dangerfield want that $1.4m offer if it were just hanging out there? he took a lower offer to help build a contender.

Geelong needed Zac Smith, scott selwood, and Henderson to be the premiership contender that Danger wanted to join.

Corey Enright was 3rd in the best and fairest and All Australian in 2016, it would have been a brave decision to just not sign him at the end of 2015. brave and bad. zac smith was a top 10 B&F player in his first 2 seasons at Geelong.

I don't see how they could just up their offer to danger and not sign these players, it doesn't make sense. they needed reinforcements to convince him they could win for him.

we also don't know what offers had already been made to these players for all we know the deals could have long been done and they didn't have any flexibility at all. that seems more likely.
 

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Big Gazoongas

Premiership Player
May 18, 2008
4,263
5,607
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To put it simply, at this point in time Darcy's SANFL form does not warrant an AFL game, people can spin it any which way they like but the reason he's not playing AFL right now is pretty much form related. His last game was better than the previous few so hopefully he's on the improve and that continues in following games.
If this was true and the rule applied equally Gallucci wouldn't have been picked this year. His form leading to him being picked for his first game this year, from all accounts was average at best.
Happy to be corrected if that is incorrect.
 

Carmo

Premiership Player
Apr 15, 2011
4,267
3,421
SA
AFL Club
Adelaide
Its a pity the muffin time thread is closed, I would like to ask whether fogarty (or any players) positioning in the SANFL is controlled by the player or by the club or if its a mix of both, what controls it? feenix67
 

skam85

lick the stamp and send it
Aug 21, 2008
3,108
4,920
Melbourne
AFL Club
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I highly doubt anyone has said that. More that was a tall you could sacrifice to get Fogarty in the line up.

The whole being flexible with your structure thing.
Playing two Tex and one Jenkins type in a forward line with no elite link man would be idiotic and disastrous.
 

Slippery Pete

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 19, 2010
15,546
19,495
AFL Club
Adelaide
With all due respect to Fog's potential, he hasn't played a single SANFL game this year (forward or back) that has warranted him AFL selection.

He needs to lift his game. He should be ripping SANFL games apart.
Of all the arguments one can mount on why he’s not in the side, this one is the worst.

I can begrudgingly accept the team balance one, and the fact he’s not really a like-for-like replacement of either Jenkins or Lynch. The fact we’ve been in pretty good form for two months is another one.

But the “he can’t be selected until he dominates the SANFL” is such a rancid, lazy, robotic, unenterprising and worst of all, historically incorrect argument that just won’t ever die on this board.

SANFL performances are a really crap measure of a player’s AFL potential/career success, and most of all they’re a really crap measure of his ability to play well in the big leagues the week after.

We pulled this sh*t with Jack Gunston all those years ago (including the playing in defence part) and he went off and played in four grand finals in the next four years, for three flags.

We sure showed him!
 
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Golumless

I'm kind of a big deal on the east side
Jul 12, 2013
28,143
32,838
Wherever the ESH clubrooms are
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Newcastle, Rockies, Oceanics
Playing two Tex and one Jenkins type in a forward line with no elite link man would be idiotic and disastrous.
Not at all. Tex should be pushing up the ground to be an option as a CHF, all you'd have to do is set him to be working further away from goal. After all, his link play is very underrated and it's a part of the CHF job to do that.

This fascination with a third tall being a link man is an Adelaide thing, not an AFL thing.
 

MRB37

Brownlow Medallist
May 17, 2009
25,322
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Our handling of Fog has been atrocious this year. He'll leave, and what's more he should if he had any self respect.

It will be very small comfort to me, in years to come when I'm stuck watching him dominate for Hawthorn or the like, to know that I've been dead right about this. :huh:
You mean the Hawthorn that keeps throwing Sicily in the forward line despite him sucking every time they do?

Crap on a crust, talk about some hyperbole. People acting like it's the first time a player ever struggles in their second year.
 

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