Speculation Darcy Parish

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Hak94

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Caldwell is another one to fit in.

McGrath can play anywhere. One of his best qualities is his commitment to the team and willingness to play any role.

With a full list to pick from I’d say our mid rotation would be:

C: Cox - Parish - McGrath
R: Draper - Shiel - Merrett/Stringer*
IC: Caldwell

*Stringer to take centre bounces.

All of Ham, Langford, Smith and Snelling to pinch hit on the wing or take the odd centre bounce to mix the things up.
I like that he's willing to play anywhere he is needed but I think when he was recruited that the intention was to play him as a midfielder. McGrath has proven that now. Not a fan of throwing players around positions unless it's a must for a season or two, but part of establishing consistency as a player is having a sole position and making it your own. Disrupting that just does a lot to a player. Parish is a real reflection of that, having been tossed between HF & the midfield for his first few years and now look at him. IMO - leave McGrath in the centre, it's where he dominates. The progression of Parish only helps players like Merrett & McGrath too, really takes the load off them and takes the pressure of them. I think we'll be talking about the same thing when Caldwell comes back + gets another preseason under his belt. He was already showing signs before he was injured, looks really smart with the ball + can find it too.
 

Chaisa

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Not 100% related, but Shiel has to close to the dumbest signing of all time. Give up two first rounders for someone who was very similar to your other mid prospects.
 

Yoda_

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Not 100% related, but Shiel has to close to the dumbest signing of all time. Give up two first rounders for someone who was very similar to your other mid prospects.
Most Essendon supporters will agree with your sentiments


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Ants

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I think the Shiel price was fair, but the acquisition (at that price) didn't suit our list at all. His value to US was less than that price.

Of course, that assumes that Worsfold would have played Parish in the centre instead, which may be a little bit delusional.
 

Hak94

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Not 100% related, but Shiel has to close to the dumbest signing of all time. Give up two first rounders for someone who was very similar to your other mid prospects.
I think in hindsight, the signing now looks a little less significant and not great given the impact he has had. At the time we really needed another quality midfielder. But, I don't think he's been terrible. I think he's held in pretty high regard at the club too, really feels like he has bought into everything and whenever he does interviews/speaks it seems like he is really committed to things. Has he been that 30+ disposal, centre clearance winner every week we'd all hoped for? No, but I don't think you should take anything away from what him playing does for players like Merrett & McGrath etc when he plays as it takes the pressure off them in the centre.

But, two first-rounders definitely wasn't worth it. I'm sure if you ask anyone who supports Ess, who they'd prefer for two first-rounders - Shiel or Dunkley and just about all of them would say, Dunkley.
 

andrewb

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Not 100% related, but Shiel has to close to the dumbest signing of all time. Give up two first rounders for someone who was very similar to your other mid prospects.
It's an interesting one.

We gave up pick 10 in 2018 and what ended up being pick 14 in 2019 for Shiel and GWS's 2019 2nd round

In 2018 GWS selected Jye Caldwell with our Pick

In 2019 GWS on traded our pick and another pick for pick 6, they then packaged up pick 6 and their 2020 first rounder for Adelaide's pick 4 which they used on Lachlan Ash.

In 2020 we traded back GWS's second round pick and our 2021 second rounder for Jye Caldwell. GWS on traded our 2021 pick to Geelong as a part of the Jeremy Cameron package and traded our 2020 pick to Collingwood on draft night.

So at the moment the ledger stands:

Dylan Shiel and Jye Caldwell
for
1/3rd of Lachlan Ash who looks ok
Some part of whatever magic netted them Bruhn, Stone and Angwin (but most of that was Jeremy Cameron)
And Collingwood's 2nd round pick in 2021 which is looking pretty tasty

Time will tell but I think we've done ok
 
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WillHayward

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Shiels best ability is winning centre clearances. Has regularly been in the top 5/10 in the league in that area statistically.

Merrett is the one who needs to spend more time on the outside of the contest and take up a wing role.

Worsfold does look stupid for having Smith ahead of Parish in the midfield rotation when he’s never been a great ball winner.
Fair call. Ur right. Shiel was 10th for CC last season.
 

Hak94

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Based on average:

2020: Top 10
2019: Top 5
2018: played on the wing at GWS
2017: Top 3

They’re also often of a high standard because he has the foot speed to carry the ball clear of congestion.
Didn't watch too many GWS games in 2018 but if it's true that he played from the wing then his stats were pretty good for that role, especially in comparison to his role shift at Ess in '19 & '20 at playing in more CC's. Even though he's clearly a proven CC winner, a wing might be a really smart move for him with Parish now clearly looking like he won't be shifted from his role.
 

Donakebab

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Not 100% related, but Shiel has to close to the dumbest signing of all time. Give up two first rounders for someone who was very similar to your other mid prospects.
Jeez talk about hyperbole, it wasn't even the dumbest of the same draft period, let alone all time. In 2018 North paid well overs for Polec who struggles to get a game despite them crying out for senior players, Freo ponied up big for Hogan who left for peanuts two years later, Saints gave Hanneberry a blank check who can't even get on the park and Collingwood sold the farm for Beams which is still wreaking havoc today.
 

citizen-erased

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McGrath to HFF doesn't make any sense at all, even though I like your out of the box thinking. Think he's a proven midfielder now, think that's where he wants to play too. His numbers are a little down compared to his 2020 season, but I think that's due to Parish coming in more. When McGrath is on too.... he's ON! If you're going to throw him anywhere else, put him where he was in his first year and that's off the HB line even then I wouldn't at all tinker with position as he is a proven midfielder now. I think the move that would be most interesting (with Parish now being back into the midfield) is with Shiel, possibly putting him on the wing. Sure, he's got a knack for hunting the ball inside, but his pace of the mark I think would really suit that outside game + breaking the line. Cox on one wing and Shiel on the other would look pretty incredible.
Purely there to switch with stringer after the centre bounce
 

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Ants

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I think in hindsight, the signing now looks a little less significant and not great given the impact he has had. At the time we really needed another quality midfielder. But, I don't think he's been terrible. I think he's held in pretty high regard at the club too, really feels like he has bought into everything and whenever he does interviews/speaks it seems like he is really committed to things. Has he been that 30+ disposal, centre clearance winner every week we'd all hoped for? No, but I don't think you should take anything away from what him playing does for players like Merrett & McGrath etc when he plays as it takes the pressure off them in the centre.

But, two first-rounders definitely wasn't worth it. I'm sure if you ask anyone who supports Ess, who they'd prefer for two first-rounders - Shiel or Dunkley and just about all of them would say, Dunkley.
A bit different. The Shiel trade first round picks were later than we'd expect the Dunkley picks were, and we got a second rounder back in the Shiel trade (which, given we got Bryan with looks like a fantastic outcome now, fingers crossed he keeps developing). So we were expected to pay a lot more for Dunkley than we were for Shiel.

Silver lining with the Shiel trade is that we nabbed Caldwell who GWS picked with our pick.
Essendon basically got Shiel and Caldwell for one 1st round and 2 seconds.
Dodoro is on record saying he'd have taken Jones with #11 in 2019 if he'd had it. We traded two seconds to get up the draft and take Jones, so if you unwind the picks it would be Shiel + Jones + Caldwell + 2019 second OR Jones + Caldwell + 2019 second + 2020 second + 2021 second. So Shiel actually ended up costing us just two seconds, kind of.
If Hooksy, Hurls and Zaka retire surely that's 2m+ off the books to pay Zerrett, The Parish and Dunks Joshy.
Money isn't a problem. We made the Dunkley offer while expecting to give rises to Zerrett and Parish this year.

In addition to the guys you mentioned (although Hurley has one more year), the big savings were Daniher, McKenna and Saad who we had budgeted to be paying out big in 2021 and beyond. Reportedly Fantasia was front-loaded so the savings on him weren't huge. Still, we expected to be paying big on the other three, and suddenly that money all became excess.
 

Chaisa

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Jeez talk about hyperbole, it wasn't even the dumbest of the same draft period, let alone all time. In 2018 North paid well overs for Polec who struggles to get a game despite them crying out for senior players, Freo ponied up big for Hogan who left for peanuts two years later, Saints gave Hanneberry a blank check who can't even get on the park and Collingwood sold the farm for Beams which is still wreaking havoc today.
I'm nothing if not hyperbolic :p

But yeah I think especially the Beams, Hogan and Hanners deals (maybe less so Polec because of the NGA rules he was almost a free hit) are definitely much, much worse, you're right. And there's also Wingard and the deal that might well be the worst of the bunch - McGovern. Still a bad deal though.
 

citizen-erased

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I'm nothing if not hyperbolic :p

But yeah I think especially the Beams, Hogan and Hanners deals (maybe less so Polec because of the NGA rules he was almost a free hit) are definitely much, much worse, you're right. And there's also Wingard and the deal that might well be the worst of the bunch - McGovern. Still a bad deal though.
he was expensive. i think we could have walked away and gone for him a year later as a free agent.
 

Hak94

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If Hooksy, Hurls and Zaka retire surely that's 2m+ off the books to pay Zerrett, The Parish and Dunks Joshy.
Don't think we had any issues with money/cap space last year, hence offering Dunkley a reported $800k+ a year. If anything, we'll have more to splash around this year too with the expected delisting + retiring of a few senior players with the notion that we're rebuilding and going down the youth path. The only name I think certainly sticks around is Hurley, given the investment we're showing with his long term injury and wanting him back. The only way I can see that not happening is if something drastically changes with his injury and it takes a massive backwards step. Hooker is an interesting one, I don't think many expected him to quite deliver as much as he has during the early parts of the year, so I think his situation is a bit "watch this space" to see if he plays as well as he has for the rest of the year. If he can kick 2-3 every week then I fully expect the club to keep him on for another year to help bolster the forwards until players like Jones can come on + hopefully Wright can get some more confidence in his game. I also fully expect Ess to be on the hunt behind the scenes for a big key forward this year. They offered McKay (Carlton) big money + a long-term deal but couldn't pry him out of Carlton. Dodoro is always up to something.

With all of that though, I don't think anyone at Ess or that is a supporter is too worried about not having the money to offer players like Merrett, Parish or even Stringer too (he's coming out of contract) what they're worth. I think it's more so they're hoping they by into this new look + direction the club is heading, it sure looks positive though. Not sure if it's been said but the progression of Parish really must do wonders for retaining Zach, it really takes the load of him both mentally & physically in games in that he must think "ok, I don't need to be the one to carry the load of the midfield anymore and I can play my game". Sure, he's still the number one in that midfield group but I don't know how you can't be excited when you have players like McGrath & Parish around you + you throw into the mix Caldwell (when he gets more experience + develops more), Stringer etc.
 

Ants

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Don't think we had any issues with money/cap space last year, hence offering Dunkley a reported $800k+ a year. If anything, we'll have more to splash around this year too with the expected delisting + retiring of a few senior players with the notion that we're rebuilding and going down the youth path. The only name I think certainly sticks around is Hurley, given the investment we're showing with his long term injury and wanting him back. The only way I can see that not happening is if something drastically changes with his injury and it takes a massive backwards step. Hooker is an interesting one, I don't think many expected him to quite deliver as much as he has during the early parts of the year, so I think his situation is a bit "watch this space" to see if he plays as well as he has for the rest of the year. If he can kick 2-3 every week then I fully expect the club to keep him on for another year to help bolster the forwards until players like Jones can come on + hopefully Wright can get some more confidence in his game. I also fully expect Ess to be on the hunt behind the scenes for a big key forward this year. They offered McKay (Carlton) big money + a long-term deal but couldn't pry him out of Carlton. Dodoro is always up to something.

With all of that though, I don't think anyone at Ess or that is a supporter is too worried about not having the money to offer players like Merrett, Parish or even Stringer too (he's coming out of contract) what they're worth. I think it's more so they're hoping they by into this new look + direction the club is heading, it sure looks positive though. Not sure if it's been said but the progression of Parish really must do wonders for retaining Zach, it really takes the load of him both mentally & physically in games in that he must think "ok, I don't need to be the one to carry the load of the midfield anymore and I can play my game". Sure, he's still the number one in that midfield group but I don't know how you can't be excited when you have players like McGrath & Parish around you + you throw into the mix Caldwell (when he gets more experience + develops more), Stringer etc.
I doubt we'll chase a big forward. We've got Wright, Jones, Eyre and Baldwin as options/developing options, and the possibility we may want to play a forward/ruck combo of Draper/Bryan down the line. Spending more draft/trade resources on a tall forward would be a waste until we know how those kids are turning out. If they fail, that is when you try to fill the gap (assuming it is your only one).

What EFC supporters are hoping is we sign Merrett, and then get a FA with all the spare cash from Daniher/McKenna/Saad/Raz/Hooker/Hurley leaving/retiring (and yes, I know some of that will go to Parish, Merrett, Stringer, but there'll be plenty spare).
 

Hak94

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I doubt we'll chase a big forward. We've got Wright, Jones, Eyre and Baldwin as options/developing options, and the possibility we may want to play a forward/ruck combo of Draper/Bryan down the line. Spending more draft/trade resources on a tall forward would be a waste until we know how those kids are turning out. If they fail, that is when you try to fill the gap (assuming it is your only one).

What EFC supporters are hoping is we sign Merrett, and then get a FA with all the spare cash from Daniher/McKenna/Saad/Raz/Hooker/Hurley leaving/retiring (and yes, I know some of that will go to Parish, Merrett, Stringer, but there'll be plenty spare).
On the notion they went HARD and were prepared to pay BIG money for McKay behind closed doors, I think it's pretty much a given they're going after a big key forward. Especially with Daniher leaving, he was expected to be our next big key forward for the next 10-15 years. Also, it's clear that Hooker isn't the longterm answer. He's just there to plug the hole/fill the need until we can find something else. I don't think Jones is the number one big man down there, I think his style of play is more suited for the CHF role, but I may be wrong in time. Also, unless something drastically changes in the way Wright plays then I really don't see him being the number one big man down there. He doesn't play aggressive enough i.e doesn't command or demand the ball enough. Someone needs to tell him to play angrier and like it's his forward line. That may come when Hooker finishes but as it stands, I don't think he's the complete answer. Definite need to go after a big key forward i.e try to lure Ben King back to Victoria.
 

citizen-erased

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I doubt we'll chase a big forward. We've got Wright, Jones, Eyre and Baldwin as options/developing options, and the possibility we may want to play a forward/ruck combo of Draper/Bryan down the line. Spending more draft/trade resources on a tall forward would be a waste until we know how those kids are turning out. If they fail, that is when you try to fill the gap (assuming it is your only one).

What EFC supporters are hoping is we sign Merrett, and then get a FA with all the spare cash from Daniher/McKenna/Saad/Raz/Hooker/Hurley leaving/retiring (and yes, I know some of that will go to Parish, Merrett, Stringer, but there'll be plenty spare).
A good number of contracts are up this year that we would be looking to not renew unless absolutely necessary.

Merrett & Parish on 5 year good deals, Stringer on 3 year decent deal.
Snelling, Hind, Bryan, Guelfi, Redman, Laverde, Jones & Waterman on 2-3 standard deals.
1 year options would be on the table for Baldwin, Cahill, Zerk, Ambrose, Hird, Flip & Hooker
Imagine we'll cut 7 and draft hard again. recycling a Gleeson/Cutler/Clarke will be disappointing.

7 plus current cap space, plus reduced Hooker salary (current deal i think is his post ban one. i imagine it's tasty), minus new deals.

Jones, Eyre & Baldwin are good young depth. But none of them proven.
Wright is a good role player, but i don't see him leading a premiership forward line.
If McKay keeps this up, $1m a year for 4 at a cost of our F1 is a no brainer.

Challenge will be McKay agreeing and getting Carlton to take the future first.
 

Hak94

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A good number of contracts are up this year that we would be looking to not renew unless absolutely necessary.

Merrett & Parish on 5 year good deals, Stringer on 3 year decent deal.
Snelling, Hind, Bryan, Guelfi, Redman, Laverde, Jones & Waterman on 2-3 standard deals.
1 year options would be on the table for Baldwin, Cahill, Zerk, Ambrose, Hird, Flip & Hooker
Imagine we'll cut 7 and draft hard again. recycling a Gleeson/Cutler/Clarke will be disappointing.

7 plus current cap space, plus reduced Hooker salary (current deal i think is his post ban one. i imagine it's tasty), minus new deals.

Jones, Eyre & Baldwin are good young depth. But none of them proven.
Wright is a good role player, but i don't see him leading a premiership forward line.
If McKay keeps this up, $1m a year for 4 at a cost of our F1 is a no brainer.

Challenge will be McKay agreeing and getting Carlton to take the future first.
As much as I'd love McKay, there is not a chance in hell can't are letting him walk out the door. He's their big man for the next 10-15 years. If he somehow walked out or they traded him, there'd be some serious questions asked all around about them as a club. Especially considering how they're playing at the moment and where they think they're at in comparison to where they realistically are at list/personal wise. Also, knowing how hard Carlton are to deal with (especially on the back of Saad last year) no way would Carlton deal McKay to Ess let alone anyone for a singular first-rounder (whether that be a high first or back end first). They rate him highly and they'll likely overvalue him too, so I'm sure they'll be asking for two firsts minimum. Sounds stupid, two firsts for a player like McKay given he's only just now really starting to show his potential but that's the logic Carlton will role with. If Essendon weren't in a rebuild phase, two firsts for a KPF like McKay may seem logical given his potential + age but it just wouldn't make sense when we're looking to go down the youth path on our own terms.
 

Tom14

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Jeez talk about hyperbole, it wasn't even the dumbest of the same draft period, let alone all time. In 2018 North paid well overs for Polec who struggles to get a game despite them crying out for senior players, Freo ponied up big for Hogan who left for peanuts two years later, Saints gave Hanneberry a blank check who can't even get on the park and Collingwood sold the farm for Beams which is still wreaking havoc today.
Polec wasn't a great move but to be fair North were going to lose their first round pick to match a bid on Tarryn Thomas, so it made sense to move it and acquire assets. Hogan and Beams were way worse moves.
 

citizen-erased

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As much as I'd love McKay, there is not a chance in hell can't are letting him walk out the door. He's their big man for the next 10-15 years. If he somehow walked out or they traded him, there'd be some serious questions asked all around about them as a club. Especially considering how they're playing at the moment and where they think they're at in comparison to where they realistically are at list/personal wise. Also, knowing how hard Carlton are to deal with (especially on the back of Saad last year) no way would Carlton deal McKay to Ess let alone anyone for a singular first-rounder (whether that be a high first or back end first). They rate him highly and they'll likely overvalue him too, so I'm sure they'll be asking for two firsts minimum. Sounds stupid, two firsts for a player like McKay given he's only just now really starting to show his potential but that's the logic Carlton will role with. If Essendon weren't in a rebuild phase, two firsts for a KPF like McKay may seem logical given his potential + age but it just wouldn't make sense when we're looking to go down the youth path on our own terms.
Agree. But Dodoro is Dodoro, we need a KPF and all's fair in love and war. Nudging Carlton's offer up by putting the $1m on the table only benefits us.
With him out of contract, you put the F1 on the table and hold your ground.
 

Hak94

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Agree. But Dodoro is Dodoro, we need a KPF and all's fair in love and war. Nudging Carlton's offer up by putting the $1m on the table only benefits us.
With him out of contract, you put the F1 on the table and hold your ground.
I do think KPF, especially gun ones are harder to find and also take longer to establish themselves than midfielders etc so I do also see merit in paying what may be perceived a little bit as "overs" to some. Plus, McKay's year has been pretty good thus far so there is a proven ability to perform. He'd look pretty nice up forward having the likes of Merrett, McGrath, Parish, Shiel, Caldwell and Stringer kicking it to him too. Unless something drastic happens with Carlton in terms of their direction and they continue to not perform/get wins on the board I can't see anyone prying him out of there as I think he likes the club, he just wants to know their heading in the right direction. It's an interesting space to watch though!
 

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