Dateline 2012 - the journey

scottywiper

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Thread starter #1
Buckle in people, it's gonna be a wild ride under the new coach.
But I think the end result will be plenty reward.
Bearing in mind that good draft picks are gonna be rare as hen's teeth in the next few years, I think our squad is shaping up real well...we'll be improving as other teams are coming back to the field.
This is an approximation of how we should look in a couple of years...leaving aside the fact we will be drafting more kids to the club in that time.

Thompson Grima McMahon
Wells Hansen Urquhart
Greenwood Swallow Anthony
Warren Tarrant Black
Ziebell Petrie Harvey

R: Goldstein, Bastinac, Cunnington

IC from: Hale, Firrito, Ross, Adams, Wright, Lower, Rawlings, Pratt, Garlett, McMillan, Norris, Kennedy, Thomas, Speight, White, Delaney

* Black I am hearing good things about. Hopeful Tarrant will deliver.
* I'd honestly consider trading Hamish before Hale or Goldy. Goldy has great potential and is already a better tap ruckman than Hamish. Hale is more capable when resting up forward and I reckon if he was allowed to play in ruck again would do every bit as good as Hamish.
* Not convinced LT or FLash are the answer as small forwards, I'd rather Harvey play there by this stage, along with Adams or Ross who can also run on the ball, or even Garlett
* Assuming Thompson will bounce back! If not, come on up Delaney!

Hang in there kids...:thumbsu:
 

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AGC

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#2
To be honest, the idea of trading Hamish isn't the worst in the world obviously provided that we can get a decent return for him. He is our best ruckman, but I don't think we lose that much from having Goldy and Hale running around, especially as Hale can push forward. 3 ruckman + Petrie when he returns just doesn't work. If we could something like Pick 9/11, combined with the pick we get in this years pool around the same mark, we could address more pertinent areas of weakness(Such as quick skilful midfielders)

Another thing people have to realise about the draft is that whilst the GC will take a fair chunk of players, there will still be an incredibly strong draft pool this year on account of the widening of the age bracket to incorporate more players and we'll certainly get a few good prospects into the mix this year. Moreso, I believe we'll see a situation like this year where the GC may not draft on a "best available" basis, rather look at drafting to build a team around. That may enable some better quality players to slip through, similar to what happened this year.
 

Brad Roo

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#3
I pretty much agree with the Hamish scenario, but I am happy to keep all 3 as long as 1 is happy to play in the 2nds until needed.

LT and Flash need to do more, but I am toying with trying out Flash as a clamp down back pocket player.
 

AGC

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#4
I pretty much agree with the Hamish scenario, but I am happy to keep all 3 as long as 1 is happy to play in the 2nds until needed.

LT and Flash need to do more, but I am toying with trying out Flash as a clamp down back pocket player.
That's too much wasted talent running around in the 2nd's for my liking- especially when we could cash in and get a mid-late first rounder for HMAC/Goldy or a 2nd rounder/solid player for Hale. To be honest, i'd then be happy for us to draft someone like an Orren Stephenson as either a mature-age rookie (to be honest i'd advocate picking Orren regardless of our ruck stocks), or get a project ruckman to develop in the VFL
 
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#5
Yeah there is goin to be some ups and downs.We will get there and these young kids will take us back up the ladder.So we all have to hold on and see where we can go with this team.
 
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#6
Haha, you're not the only side playing the kids. Everyone thinks they are going to be better in 2012. Premierships are won in the present, not the future.

Also, anyone who thinks trading Hamish McIntosh - one of the best ruckmen in the league - is a step in the right direction simply doesn't get the concept of competitive sport.
 

Juryduty

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#7
Not going to get no where until we get our foward line working properly, and even with that 2012 foward line, looking at it I am still nervous.
 

scottywiper

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Thread starter #8
Haha, you're not the only side playing the kids. Everyone thinks they are going to be better in 2012. Premierships are won in the present, not the future.

Also, anyone who thinks trading Hamish McIntosh - one of the best ruckmen in the league - is a step in the right direction simply doesn't the concept of competitive sport.
"Premierships are won in the present". Nice catchcry of the kind Justin Langer likes but what does it mean for us? Nada.
We can't magically make G Ablett Jr, Jimmy Bartel, Cameron Ling, Paul Chapman and Joel Corey appear in our side can we? There is no way we have a premiership shot this season.
So therefore we have to work on what we have and develop our squad with a long-term plan. Everyone might think they will be better in 2012, but truth is most won't be. We need to make sure we are.
And I am confident the talent is there to be in the mix in 3 or so years. But again we can't magically give Ziebell, Cunnington, Greenwood, Bastinac, Wright, Warren and co. 50 games and stronger bodies.
They need time to develop.
I hate losing as much as anyone, but we have to be realistic. Demanding immediate success won't achieve anything.
Hamish is sometimes one of the best ruckman in the competition, sometimes not. That makes his tradeable IMO. His first half against Port was deplorable, his second half was superb. But we need more from a senior player in my opinion. If we didn't have two other highly capable ruckman on the list would it be wise, obviously not, but the fact is we do.
At some point one is going to be surplus.
 

scottywiper

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Thread starter #9
Not going to get no where until we get our foward line working properly, and even with that 2012 foward line, looking at it I am still nervous.
Definitely the main concern.
But Black has very good raps on him and O'Keefe is apparently coming along nicely. Tarrant is a question mark. We can only hope.
Forward pocket is a worry, we have a few options but non have really stood out, Thomas is the man at the moment but he's not exactly setting the world on fire.
 
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#10
Buckle in people, it's gonna be a wild ride under the new coach.
But I think the end result will be plenty reward.
Bearing in mind that good draft picks are gonna be rare as hen's teeth in the next few years, I think our squad is shaping up real well...we'll be improving as other teams are coming back to the field.
This is an approximation of how we should look in a couple of years...leaving aside the fact we will be drafting more kids to the club in that time.

Thompson Grima McMahon
Wells Hansen Urquhart
Greenwood Swallow Anthony
Warren Tarrant Black
Ziebell Petrie Harvey

R: Goldstein, Bastinac, Cunnington

IC from: Hale, Firrito, Ross, Adams, Wright, Lower, Rawlings, Pratt, Garlett, McMillan, Norris, Kennedy, Thomas, Speight, White, Delaney

* Black I am hearing good things about. Hopeful Tarrant will deliver.
* I'd honestly consider trading Hamish before Hale or Goldy. Goldy has great potential and is already a better tap ruckman than Hamish. Hale is more capable when resting up forward and I reckon if he was allowed to play in ruck again would do every bit as good as Hamish.
* Not convinced LT or FLash are the answer as small forwards, I'd rather Harvey play there by this stage, along with Adams or Ross who can also run on the ball, or even Garlett
* Assuming Thompson will bounce back! If not, come on up Delaney!

Hang in there kids...:thumbsu:
McIntosh??
 

snrub

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#11
In 2012, Majak Daw will be where NicNat currently is. So Hamish will be fighting with Goldy and Hale to be the sideshow back up. We may well be able to trade two of them.
 

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#13
We can't magically make G Ablett Jr, Jimmy Bartel, Cameron Ling, Paul Chapman and Joel Corey appear in our side can we? There is no way we have a premiership shot this season.
So therefore we have to work on what we have and develop our squad with a long-term plan. Everyone might think they will be better in 2012, but truth is most won't be. We need to make sure we are.
I think this is the most important point. I don't feel that this long term youth plan is going to increase our chances of winning a premiership in comparison to any other way of managing a list. In 2012 there are going to be 17 other clubs and there is absolutely no reason to believe that we are going to be better than any of them bar Richmond at this stage.

It's not like we haven't tried this before anyway. I've just taken a random Roos News off the shelf - pre-season 2005 - and have had a look at what Dean Laidley had to say. "We have a fantastic core of young and exciting players the club has branded the Roo Generation and I have faith this is the group which will lead us back into September action. This group will end up playing a lot of footy together." Sounds just like something Brad Scott would say, however just 5 years later only 11 players remain (half of which were senior players even back then). What happened?
 

blackshadow

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#14
I think this is the most important point. I don't feel that this long term youth plan is going to increase our chances of winning a premiership in comparison to any other way of managing a list. In 2012 there are going to be 17 other clubs and there is absolutely no reason to believe that we are going to be better than any of them bar Richmond at this stage.

It's not like we haven't tried this before anyway. I've just taken a random Roos News off the shelf - pre-season 2005 - and have had a look at what Dean Laidley had to say. "We have a fantastic core of young and exciting players the club has branded the Roo Generation and I have faith this is the group which will lead us back into September action. This group will end up playing a lot of footy together." Sounds just like something Brad Scott would say, however just 5 years later only 11 players remain (half of which were senior players even back then). What happened?
:shakes head thingy:
 
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#15
:shakes head thingy:
Thanks for your contribution. You have your opinion and I have mine and that is the purpose of a forum. The great thing about talking footy is that this stuff is all going to play out for all to see. I'm pretty confident that we are not more than a 1/18 chance at winning the premiership from 2012 onwards, while you think we are building something special. Lets see what happens.
 

scottywiper

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Thread starter #16
I think this is the most important point. I don't feel that this long term youth plan is going to increase our chances of winning a premiership in comparison to any other way of managing a list. In 2012 there are going to be 17 other clubs and there is absolutely no reason to believe that we are going to be better than any of them bar Richmond at this stage.

It's not like we haven't tried this before anyway. I've just taken a random Roos News off the shelf - pre-season 2005 - and have had a look at what Dean Laidley had to say. "We have a fantastic core of young and exciting players the club has branded the Roo Generation and I have faith this is the group which will lead us back into September action. This group will end up playing a lot of footy together." Sounds just like something Brad Scott would say, however just 5 years later only 11 players remain (half of which were senior players even back then). What happened?
I would argue that there absolutely is a reason to believe we are going to be better than several, if not many, of the other 17 sides in 2012. The same young guys I named as needing 50-plus games previously.
Can I guarantee it, no. But I see some real hope and potential in the squad we have. It excites me.
Looking back at 2005, that'd be when we had the likes of John Baird, Leigh Brown, Shane Harvey, Corey McKernan, Lance Picioane, Jess Sinclair, Sav Rocca, Mick Stevens and Nathan Thompson on our list, as well as Leigh Colbert. All experienced players from other clubs when they joined us, even if McKernan was one of ours. He was a shadow of his former self when he returned. You could even throw Pratt in.
And guys who never really looked likely to make it like Sansbury, Perkins, Schwarze, Chad Jones, Watson, Urch, Shore. I'll excuse Grima and Trotter as they had talent but copped bad injuries.
Archer, Colbert, Rocca, Simpson and Grant were well and truly in the veteran stage by then.
We had only four players under 20 going into that season.
Our draftees for that season were Moran, Picioane, Pratt, Schwarze, JWS and Thompson. Only two kids in there.
If Laids said it was a Roo Generation, he was pulling our legs....to help extend his coaching career.
 
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Moderator #17
Very good post there s'wiper :thumbsu:

Originally Posted by scottywiper
But I see some real hope and potential in the squad we have. It excites me.
As do I, and this roller coaster ride we're on right now is a part of the journey towards success. For much of yesterday's game we were matching it with a top side who's oozing class and experience, and we were doing so with the brand new coach and gameplan which was being implemented by so many players with so little AFL experience. The signs are good.......very good IMO.
 

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#18
I'm genuinely excited about what I see and what it means for the future. Yesterday a young bunch outplayed a top 4 contender for a half before fatigue set in. You can't expect players 21 and under to have as much stamina as older bodies that have been in the system for a lot longer.

Give this group another 50 games to get their bodies battle hardened and to develop as a team together and we're going to be something special.

Swallow, Bastinac, Ziebell, Anthony, Goldstein, Hansen, Wells, Grima, Thompson, McMahon, Adams, Greenwood and Lower are all doing very well and by the time they've played 50 games together and you add in talent like Cunnington, Black and hopefully Tarrant and Dawe with the likes of Petrie and Boomer you've got a hell of a lot to be excited about.
 

Dan

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#19
Lots of good sides don't win premierships. You look at Collingwood for the past 10 years..they've had a strong side for a long time...but no premiership.....yet that side has alot of good players/stars.......reputation....respect......winning.

North needs to regain the respect and fear from opposition supporters and teams like it did in the 90's before it can make any progress. So many times....game after game....empty seats...low crowds.......opposition supporters mocking roos style of play...its players....lack of supporters. We need those lot to think...oh sh!t....we've got North this week..tough game. Only then will the players feel almost invincible.....confidence will be high......watch the membership go up......watch AFL fans in general turning up to your games because we are a top side to watch.

in 2010....will the side be better.......of course we will. I'm just wondering if players can find that arogent winning mojo.....believe in winning...believe that they'll beat the crap out of sides. Then, watch it become contagious.....it'll grow on the club......from coaches...staff...and the supporters/members.....more members...more ppl at our games.....= respect and confindence from the AFL world

If we don't get that mojo..the side will only improve slightly and remain the mockery to opposition fans and clubs.....and the players will feel like they are all on there own

Go Roos!
 

ozzyoslo

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#20
That's too much wasted talent running around in the 2nd's for my liking- especially when we could cash in and get a mid-late first rounder for HMAC/Goldy or a 2nd rounder/solid player for Hale. To be honest, i'd then be happy for us to draft someone like an Orren Stephenson as either a mature-age rookie (to be honest i'd advocate picking Orren regardless of our ruck stocks), or get a project ruckman to develop in the VFL
ummmm majak ???
 
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#21
Time to instil our 90s style of robust football, we aim for the ball and the man. Let's increase the opposition's injury toll. Physical removal of opposition player is the most effective way of beating them.

As to drafting, we should move in the opp direction. Draft matured age people.
 

spurs

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#22
Big Mac will stay. Didn't Laids try and trade him a little over a year ago and we got no takers within the top 10 draft range?Mac is a keeper and still young.Hale is the one who should be nervous. Been in the system long enough and hasnt played well apart from that game where as BigMac has had some great years.
I can't see us departing with too many players because they arent good enough, so we will need to trade for excellent mature players which will help the young guns in a few years.
There must be more Barlows,Anthonys and Jettas around Aus.
The nucleus of our young team does look very exciting but we will top up with a few more young guns over the next year or two and throw in some more mature age recruits and we will be top 4. Who we choose as our mature age recruits will be the key.
 

B Tron

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#23
We have the grunt, leadership and determination, now we need to add speed on the flanks. One more productive draft should see us ready to go from 2012 onwards.

A key forward would be nice too although hopefully one of Taz, O' Keefe or Black will come on.
 

Tas

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#24
I think between now and 2012 there will be "at least" five players in our best that are not on that list.

I'd expect us to get 2 good players in 2010 and 2011 and at least one of Daw, Kennedy, Smith, Garlett, etc step up. There are also a few guys on the list in the dubious category.

I doubt Harvey will be around, Urquhart isn't setting the world on fire and guys like Wells and Hansen haven't hit their potential and who knows if one day they might not want to take the JWS soft option.
 

scottywiper

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Thread starter #25
Buckle in people, it's gonna be a wild ride under the new coach.
But I think the end result will be plenty reward.
Bearing in mind that good draft picks are gonna be rare as hen's teeth in the next few years, I think our squad is shaping up real well...we'll be improving as other teams are coming back to the field.
This is an approximation of how we should look in a couple of years...leaving aside the fact we will be drafting more kids to the club in that time.

Thompson Grima McMahon
Wells Hansen Urquhart
Greenwood Swallow Anthony
Warren Tarrant Black
Ziebell Petrie Harvey

R: Goldstein, Bastinac, Cunnington

IC from: Hale, Firrito, Ross, Adams, Wright, Lower, Rawlings, Pratt, Garlett, McMillan, Norris, Kennedy, Thomas, Speight, White, Delaney

* Black I am hearing good things about. Hopeful Tarrant will deliver.
* I'd honestly consider trading Hamish before Hale or Goldy. Goldy has great potential and is already a better tap ruckman than Hamish. Hale is more capable when resting up forward and I reckon if he was allowed to play in ruck again would do every bit as good as Hamish.
* Not convinced LT or FLash are the answer as small forwards, I'd rather Harvey play there by this stage, along with Adams or Ross who can also run on the ball, or even Garlett
* Assuming Thompson will bounce back! If not, come on up Delaney!

Hang in there kids...:thumbsu:
Got a few right...half-forward line a bit astray. And sorry Urqs.Hale traded.
Been an interesting couple of years!
 
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