What the heck? David King vs Chris Fagan

[WillHayward]

Lloyd such a flog and Barret .
Barret said when Rance did his knee Richmond no chance of winning flag , Lloyd said similiar in 2016 we needed a full rebuild , then in 2020 said we couldn’t win the flag

Matthew Lloyd discusses the Jesse Hogan trade

Matthew Lloyd says he's concerned Jesse Hogan keeps getting traded

www.theage.com.au

 

[errant bounce]

Love how people stick the boots into people who are on the record probably making 20 predictions a week about short and long term football decisions when people on here call for a delisting and four years later love that very same player.

Are people just supposed to like, know everything?

 

[joey_jo_jo]

Unsurprisingly both Lloyd's analysis on sunday footy show and Kings yesterday morning on SEN completely focussed on the simplistic notion that Swans players "didn't turn up" and neither gave any credit to the Lions brains-trust or players for putting work into specific swans players to blunt their impact on the game.
King was still harping on about how he isnt a fan of the uncontested marking game that the Lions played to perfection on Saturday. If a team doesnt play sling shot/surge footy like the Pies/Swans then King/Daniel Hoyne refuse to accept them as contenders.

 

[gambinotosserflog]

Matthew Lloyd discusses the Jesse Hogan trade

Matthew Lloyd says he's concerned Jesse Hogan keeps getting traded

www.theage.com.au

so you show 3 examples where his predictions were incorrect. 1. no one gets things right 100% 2. sure you're not just cherrypicking?

 

[WillHayward]

so you show 3 examples where his predictions were incorrect. 1. no one gets things right 100% 2. sure you're not just cherrypicking?

Heaps aren't right but mostly inconsequential.

I'm highlighting personality and tendency evidence and the tendency is he's conservative and mean spirited.

Anyone outside the conservative corporate jock mould he attacks. It's no coincidence.

Classic school bully in the American movies of the 80s and 90s.

Doesn't like Fagan (too old..didn't play AFL)
Doesn't like Hogan (drugs, mental health issues)
Doesn't like anyone different and outside his comfort zone.

 

[gambinotosserflog]

Heaps aren't right but mostly inconsequential.

I'm highlighting personality and tendency evidence and the tendency is he's conservative and mean spirited.

Anyone outside the conservative corporate jock mould he attacks. It's no coincidence.

Classic school bully in the American movies of the 80s and 90s.

Doesn't like Fagan (too old..didn't play AFL)
Doesn't like Hogan (drugs, mental health issues)
Doesn't like anyone different and outside his comfort zone.

Obvious which side of politics you reside on. I've never really seen that in Lloyd. I hated him when he played after what he did to Sewell, but he's one of the most reasonable commentators out there, sitting aside flogs like King, Cornes, Maclure, Caro, Hutchy, etc. Not sure why you're focused on whether he 'likes' someone. It's more whether he has a valid opinion. Hogan took a long time to get his act together. Wasn't exactly a beacon of role model behaviour. Not sure where you get the 'bully' character assessment from.....

 

[WillHayward]

Obvious which side of politics you reside on. I've never really seen that in Lloyd. I hated him when he played after what he did to Sewell, but he's one of the most reasonable commentators out there, sitting aside flogs like King, Cornes, Maclure, Caro, Hutchy, etc. Not sure why you're focused on whether he 'likes' someone. It's more whether he has a valid opinion. Hogan took a long time to get his act together. Wasn't exactly a beacon of role model behaviour. Not sure where you get the 'bully' character assessment from.....

Which side of politics do you think I'm on?

 

[bungalow_bill]

Lloyd such a flog and Barret .
Barret said when Rance did his knee Richmond no chance of winning flag , Lloyd said similiar in 2016 we needed a full rebuild , then in 2020 said we couldn’t win the flag

One of the most talented groups that wasted it = Bombers late '90s/early '00's. The Lions being the architects of their downfall.

 

[PenAndPaper]

You don’t think the quality of the playing list plays a huge part of it?
Can’t see Fagan doing what Scott has done with a bits and pieces list.
More handouts for you next season too to bolster it, just have to keep the end of season Vegas trip under control this time.

Obviously if the bears win next week (and that remains to be seen) then it’s full credit but to not win one in this era would be an abject failure. You know that too which is why you’re so touchy.

This is quite possibly the worst take I have ever seen on here.
Fagan took over an absolute rabble that he has now built into a premiership winning team.
Scott took over one of the best teams of that past decade and has just continued along with that.

 

[paulige]

Bits and pieces? Please. First year in the job:

• Scott, premiership
• Fagan, spoon

I think he’s done exceptionally well turning a basket case into a consistent finals-side.

Edit:

I think he’s done exceptionally well turning a basket case into a premiership side.

 

[mightypowerrrr]

Scott Watters would have won a premiership with Brisbane's list.

King is right about Fagan's lack of tactical nous. Perhaps if he had better strategy, the Lions would have won more premierships

 

[paulige]

Scott Watters would have won a premiership with Brisbane's list.

King is right about Fagan's lack of tactical nous. Perhaps if he had better strategy, the Lions would have won more premierships

This is called shifting the goalposts.

Now that critics can’t bemoan his lack of a premiership, they will bemoan his lack of premierships.

King was wrong. During Fagan’s premiership season, he suggested the Lions should move Fagan on and replace him with Scott, ironically the coach Fagan out-coached in his preliminary final win, on the way to his premiership.

 

[Rabish Binney]

Scott Watters would have won a premiership with Brisbane's list.

King is right about Fagan's lack of tactical nous. Perhaps if he had better strategy, the Lions would have won more premierships

Lack of tactical nous? Did you not watch the GF & how they pulled the Swans apart?

They lost the GF last year by 4 points, which they actually may have won if not for a late dodgy free kick paid to Collingwood.

But there is no doubt about it. Some OP's still think Fagan is a shit coach.

Edit: if I were you I'd be analysing Longmire's tactics, not criticising Fagan's.

 

[The Mares Leg]

Lack of tactical nous? Did you not watch the GF & how they pulled the Swans apart?

They lost the GF last year by 4 points, which they actually may have won if not for a late dodgy free kick paid to Collingwood.

But there is no doubt about it. Some OP's still think Fagan is a shit coach.

Edit: if I were you I'd be analysing Longmire's tactics, not criticising Fagan's.

Whatever happens in game day tactically is not Fagan - I think thats why King doesn’t rate him.

What King forgets is the players love him, he clearly understands them, and he’s certainly a very good teacher.

 

[M Malice]

David King is a numbskull, he cherry picks selected footage from games to suit his preconceived narrative.

Every player and team in the league could be lambasted via the David King "analysis" method.

 

[Rabish Binney]

Whatever happens in game day tactically is not Fagan - I think thats why King doesn’t rate him.

What King forgets is the players love him, he clearly understands them, and he’s certainly a very good teacher.

What?

Your saying that Fagan has no input and no influence on gameday tactics? Fagan doesn't talk or plan tactics prior to each game with his assistants?

So it must be the water boys and girls running out the water to the Lions players who plan the tactics against the opposition on game day?

So let me get this right. You are saying that Fagan, as coach wins a GF but he has nothing to do with the gameday tactics or planning. Yet last year, when they lost to the Pies, it was all about Fagan and his so called lack of tactics and gameplan?

FMD.

 

[The Mares Leg]

What?

Your saying that Fagan has no input and no influence on gameday tactics? Fagan doesn't talk or plan tactics prior to each game with his assistants?

So it must be the water boys and girls running out the water to the Lions players who plan the tactics against the opposition on game day?

So let me get this right. You are saying that Fagan, as coach wins a GF but he has nothing to do with the gameday tactics or planning. Yet last year, when they lost to the Pies, it was all about Fagan and his so called lack of tactics and gameplan?

FMD.

I could have won a car betting you’d get the wrong end of the stick…..so predictably one-dimensional in your outlook.

You’re right - while the games on, and Fagan’s onthe bench talking with players, encouraging them, finding out the medical status…absolutely Nobody is monitoring oppo moves, oppo player stats, oppo injuries and assessing Lions players performance.

He is god-like in his capabilities, no doubt.

 

[Anzacday]

Lack of tactical nous? Did you not watch the GF & how they pulled the Swans apart?

They lost the GF last year by 4 points, which they actually may have won if not for a late dodgy free kick paid to Collingwood.

But there is no doubt about it. Some OP's still think Fagan is a shit coach.

Edit: Although truth be known they were lucky Collingwood kicked poorly for goal, (which Fagan acknowledged).

Just tidied that up a little for you

 

[KissKiss]

If a team doesnt play sling shot/surge footy like the Pies/Swans then King/Daniel Hoyne refuse to accept them as contenders.

Actually Hoyne was one who backed the lions the whole season. He kept stating on all the statistical measures the Lions were in the hunt and was stating pre the GF that we should win. His only caveat on that was he was sure how we would back up all the finals against Sydney having the extra rest.

Thats another reason its so clear King has it out for Fagan. The official Champion Data person kept backing the Lions, while the unofficial mouthpiece kept bagging Fagan about how it wouldnt happen

 

[joey_jo_jo]

Actually Hoyne was one who backed the lions the whole season. He kept stating on all the statistical measures the Lions were in the hunt and was stating pre the GF that we should win. His only caveat on that was he was sure how we would back up all the finals against Sydney having the extra rest.

Thats another reason its so clear King has it out for Fagan. The official Champion Data person kept backing the Lions, while the unofficial mouthpiece kept bagging Fagan about how it wouldnt happen

Ah ok I mustve missed that, generally Hoyne also favours the teams that transition quickly from backline rather than the uncontested possession game teams....but actually I do recall Hoyne regularly saying that Lions were in the window so yeah happy to concede that.

 

[beatnik]

Love how people stick the boots into people who are on the record probably making 20 predictions a week about short and long term football decisions when people on here call for a delisting and four years later love that very same player.

Are people just supposed to like, know everything?

They don’t get bagged for their predictive rate, they get bagged for their logic which is usually agenda-driven:

1. They do/don’t like the player for personal reasons
2. They do/don’t like the club for personal reasons
3. They’re looking after a third-party relationship (eg player manager, club source, media outlet owner or executive)
4. They want to say something outlandish to get outrage clicks

Their opinions are constructed or calculated to further one of those interests…the so-called ‘straight shooters’ like Kane, Lloyd, King, Eddie, BT etc are the worst

Many of the others are just flogs (I’m looking at you Andy Maher! )

 

[beatnik]

I could have won a car betting you’d get the wrong end of the stick…..so predictably one-dimensional in your outlook.

You’re right - while the games on, and Fagan’s onthe bench talking with players, encouraging them, finding out the medical status…absolutely Nobody is monitoring oppo moves, oppo player stats, oppo injuries and assessing Lions players performance.

He is god-like in his capabilities, no doubt.

This is an Xbox-level understanding o team tactics…pure Dunning Kruger

 

[The 747]

King is a clown, good to see him get exposed yet again.

If they ever published this CD data that is 98% of his material, posters on this site would quickly show him up for the fraud he is.

 

[The Mares Leg]

This is an Xbox-level understanding o team tactics…pure Dunning Kruger

As you’ve completely misinterpreted what Dunning-Kruger set out to prove - you are more than obliged to point out exactly what I wrote that was questionable.

Rabish Binney failed to understand I was not criticising Fagan, merely pointing out his coaching system has been set up to suit his strengths.

In your childish terms - this required an X-Box level analogy of his coaching system.

You don’t appear to have grasped that.

You’ve selectivised my summary of his game day system and tried to big-note yourself by referencing a behavioural effect used to describe an individual's perceptive weakness.

FAIL.

D-K - their studies established that an individuals ‘perceived abilities’ sometimes do not match with the reality.

Their studies have ZERO to do with personal overestimation of intelligence or knowledge.

Their studies were predicated on ABILITY to perform certain tasks.

So, little man, in trying to reference a popularist behavioural effect to my observation on coaching from the bench - you’ve proved yourself an adept in purveying complete nonsense.

Next time try to understand what a person is pointing at - not criticise their fingernails.

 

[bungalow_bill]

To summarise I'm extremely salty.