News David Teague - Training wheels OFF

[F_therest]

I can't cop this at all.
"Sticking to his guns" was Bolton being stubborn and inflexible. Pigheaded would be a better phrase. It cost us, and it cost him.

As for Teague playing older players at the expense of younger players, who are you talking about? There aren't any fit young players wasting away in the 2s. He hasn't brought in a Mick Martin type like Pagan did.
He's shifted Ed and Murphy into the guts (as well as Jack and Walsh), an unfit Dow (who quite a few on here want dropped) into the forwardline, as well as Fisher and Samo into a number of positions.

I really can't see how anyone can be critical of what Teague has done over the last 5 weeks.

Agree, i'd argue that Teague isn't 'sacrificing development' at all. Not even a little bit.

Just because the likes of Dow/Fisher/SPS aren't playing in the guts as much does not mean they aren't being developed...they are learning new positions and i think will be relieved the burden and pressure of playing midfield all game has been released...it was too much for such young players.

Dow looked sore and people here were calling for him to be dropped and Fisher was getting man-handled at times at centre square stoppages. They were also tiring late in games leading to our numerous fade-outs in 4th quarters.

Also other young players have benefited from moves by Teague, with LOB, Setterfield & Kennedy looking to have 'developed' more in the last 5 games.

The fact that every player seems to be enjoying their footy more with our new approach/style, not to mention the nourishment of winning after a barren few years, and i'd say 'development' has been on par or even better than when Bolton was at the helm.

The club's entire outlook in the industry has changed and we are gaining respect in the AFL again already...media personalities are talking about our exciting young list and that we are capable of a premiership in the next 4 years, there's plenty of rumours about top players like Papley joining us...this is all thanks to our improvement under Teague.

 

[Stamos]

It may have been but not convinced.
Those losses against North, GWS and Essendon were coach-killers and the decision to cut Bolton were made very easy.

Good question though. Would have they been different for the few points the other way in those early games? Don't know.

We can never know, but I don't think those coach-killer games happen (especially the Essendon one which really was the coach-killer, and the Saints) if we were winning those other games.

 

[dlb99]

Is it a natural progression or a radical change?

Better coaching.
In game adjustments are now happening.
Teague has shown himself to be superior at the art of match day coaching.

 

[Soapy V]

Better coaching.
In game adjustments are now happening.
Teague has shown himself to be superior at the art of match day coaching.

I don't buy that. Depends what their focus is

 

[F_therest]

It may have been but not convinced.
Those losses against North, GWS and Essendon were coach-killers and the decision to cut Bolton were made very easy.

Good question though. Would have they been different for the few points the other way in those early games? Don't know.

Could also argue his decisions were the reason we lost those games...and that the players felt this which is why they grew frustrated and eventually things collapsed from the North game.

Would be mighty frustrating as a player to give your all but feel that the way your coach is instructing the team to play is not the best course of action when you feel another option would be better...we all saw numerous players look confused/hesitant under Bolton, as if their instinct told them they should do one thing, but they've been told to do another.

Would we have won some of those closer games against Hawthorn, Collingwood, GC etc if he had made some changes? Even simply putting Murph & Ed in the middle when those teams got a run on and our young mids started to tire? All a bit of 'what if' now and can't say with 100% certainty, but you make your own luck. Under Bolton we lost every close game we were in...under Teague every game has been pretty close and we've managed to win 3 out of 5.

 

[F_therest]

It's vital for CFC that we start next year with a bang and (at the absolute least) challenge for finals. Surely the inexpensive coach with something to prove, who knows the players, has their trust and is already implementing his philosophies, is a frontrunner for the job. DT gets my vote.

Inexpensive coach may also free up money to attract higher rated assistants.

You'd imagine we'd be able to hit the ground running into 2020 much faster under Teague than a new coach, who has to start from scratch.

 

[HARKER]

We can never know, but I don't think those coach-killer games happen (especially the Essendon one which really was the coach-killer, and the Saints) if we were winning those other games.

Who knows, but after that last quarter against Essendon finished, you just knew that Bolton was in serious trouble.
If ever there was the straw that broke the camels back that was it
- 4 goals in a whole game of football
- 3 points across two quarters of football.

Would love to run an alternate time-line, where we can watch Bolton coaching against Brisbane the following week. What may have happened?

 

[F_therest]

I don't buy that. Depends what their focus is

As a supporter watching, we don't know everything that's going on but it certainly appears that Teague has made more in-game adjustments that have helped the team than Bolton did.

Most of the games under Bolton this year i can't really recall an obvious change in-game that helped turn the game in our favour...even as simple as Curnow tagging their best mid.

 

[Stamos]

Who knows, but after that last quarter against Essendon finished, you just knew that Bolton was in serious trouble.
If ever there was the straw that broke the camels back that was it
- 4 goals in a whole game of football
- 3 points across two quarters of football.

Would love to run an alternate time-line, where we can watch Bolton coaching against Brisbane the following week. What may have happened?

The turning point was 2 weeks earlier, though

 

[Soapy V]

As a supporter watching, we don't know everything that's going on but it certainly appears that Teague has made more in-game adjustments that have helped the team than Bolton did.

Most of the games under Bolton this year i can't really recall an obvious change in-game that helped turn the game in our favour...even as simple as Curnow tagging their best mid.

Like I said depends what their focus is

 

[El Topo]

Inexpensive coach may also free up money to attract higher rated assistants.

You'd imagine we'd be able to hit the ground running into 2020 much faster under Teague than a new coach, who has to start from scratch.

Freo took a year to get running under Ross. Malthouse had 'learning the game plan' as an excuse for most of 2013 until he straight up changed his line to "we're an average football team'. It's a seriously underrated factor in the coaching discussion.

 

[bigblueboy]

Could also argue his decisions were the reason we lost those games...and that the players felt this which is why they grew frustrated and eventually things collapsed from the North game.

Would be mighty frustrating as a player to give your all but feel that the way your coach is instructing the team to play is not the best course of action when you feel another option would be better...we all saw numerous players look confused/hesitant under Bolton, as if their instinct told them they should do one thing, but they've been told to do another.

Would we have won some of those closer games against Hawthorn, Collingwood, GC etc if he had made some changes? Even simply putting Murph & Ed in the middle when those teams got a run on and our young mids started to tire? All a bit of 'what if' now and can't say with 100% certainty, but you make your own luck. Under Bolton we lost every close game we were in...under Teague every game has been pretty close and we've managed to win 3 out of 5.

Spot on ... even if players, coaching staff, board etc are all on the same page in regard to the long term outcome, losing is frustrating and unacceptable.

Bolton was coaching for long term development in the naive belief that everyone would ignore the frustration no matter the win/loss record.

Teague has no such platform, or at this point, requirement. It's why the club - and supporters - need to be careful about jumping on the Teague for permanent coach bandwagon.

 

[HARKER]

The turning point was 2 weeks earlier, though

That's why I said that it was the Essendon game broke the camels back.
Had have we beaten Essendon, Bolton would have remained and had the games gone as they had thereafter, he'd still be our coach.

Bolton was in the crosshairs from early on in the year, even for all the 'backing' being portrayed.
No one wanted for things to play out as they had (maybe Teague excluded) but when triggers were hit, the execution came quick.

 

[Stamos]

That's why I said that it was the Essendon game broke the camels back.
Had have we beaten Essendon, Bolton would have remained and had the games gone as they had thereafter, he'd still be our coach.

I was overseas, so didn't see the * abomination (and surely nobody can expect me to watch the replay).
But from what I understand, given how the effort of the players has been described to me, we were no chance of winning that game.

 

[Kruezing]

Ok ... just sitting in the cafe at the club at the moment and MLG just called Teaguey into the George Harris room ... all very serious ... is this an interview ? ... I’ll keep you posted on any further developments ...

 

[I bleed Blue]

I was overseas, so didn't see the * abomination (and surely nobody can expect me to watch the replay).
But from what I understand, given how the effort of the players has been described to me, we were no chance of winning that game.

It was depressing stuff to watch.

As Harks said when that final siren went you just knew in your gut that was it for bolts.

 

[F_therest]

It was depressing stuff to watch.

As Harks said when that final siren went you just knew in your gut that was it for bolts.

It was the point where even the most optimistic of us and biggest Bolton supporters throughout the journey knew he had lost the players.

The overriding thought immediately after the game was 'WTF was that??'

 

[Mr_Plow]

It was the point where even the most optimistic of us and biggest Bolton supporters throughout the journey knew he had lost the players.

The overriding thought immediately after the game was 'WTF was that??'

I was at home and legit just stopped watching and went to eat. Nobody on the field gave a s**t, aside from probably Walsh, was dreadful.

 

[myblueroan]

Ok ... just sitting in the cafe at the club at the moment and MLG just called Teaguey into the George Harris room ... all very serious ... is this an interview ? ... I’ll keep you posted on any further developments ...

 

[El Topo]

That's why I said that it was the Essendon game broke the camels back.
Had have we beaten Essendon, Bolton would have remained and had the games gone as they had thereafter, he'd still be our coach.

Bolton was in the crosshairs from early on in the year, even for all the 'backing' being portrayed.
No one wanted for things to play out as they had (maybe Teague excluded) but when triggers were hit, the execution came quick.

If this is the case - I don't know whether to be appalled or impressed by Bolton's refusal to deviate from his plan.

 

[HARKER]

If this is the case - I don't know whether to be appalled or impressed by Bolton's refusal to deviate from his plan.

I bet the same considerations by the respective boards, would have been for Richardson, Worsfold and a couple of others.
May I just elaborate because maybe those words weren't chosen particularly wisely on reflection.
It wasn't that there was a plan to oust him, but rather an understanding that there may be a case to do so and when that case presented, it made for a somewhat easy decision to do so.

All clubs have to plan for 'what-ifs' and I'm just glad our club didn't stuff around too long to do what they did, as unfortunate as it was.
Is there anyone here now, that wished for Bolton to have remained? Maybe, but not many.

 

[Nori]

If this is the case - I don't know whether to be appalled or impressed by Bolton's refusal to deviate from his plan.

It was a serious flaw. He had got himself into a head space where the ends justified the means, so ultimately there was no accountability. Losses were just being put down to development.

Sadly, I think Bolton was a good coach that lost his way.

 

[Wily trout]

Ok ... just sitting in the cafe at the club at the moment and MLG just called Teaguey into the George Harris room ... all very serious ... is this an interview ? ... I’ll keep you posted on any further developments ...

That cafe is a funny little place. I only visit Melbourne once a year from Canberra, and I usually try and get the ground to go to the shop and see the boys train if they are. Twice I have been at the cafewhen some Carlton people were having a coffee having pretty non-public discussions going on. One discussion was with David Parkin and MLG and David McKay a few years back and another with Touey and Ed and a couple of other players discussing their thoughts on some of the Tigers players from the game the night before, they were generally diplomatic but a couple were not 'liked' it would seem. Anyway, good coffee as well.

 

[therubbernub]

I can't cop this at all.
"Sticking to his guns" was Bolton being stubborn and inflexible. Pigheaded would be a better phrase. It cost us, and it cost him.

As for Teague playing older players at the expense of younger players, who are you talking about? There aren't any fit young players wasting away in the 2s. He hasn't brought in a Mick Martin type like Pagan did.
He's shifted Ed and Murphy into the guts (as well as Jack and Walsh), an unfit Dow (who quite a few on here want dropped) into the forwardline, as well as Fisher and Samo into a number of positions.

I really can't see how anyone can be critical of what Teague has done over the last 5 weeks.

Firstly I said it wasnt working. But are we sure that the rhetoric coming out of the club isnt just the covering of peoples arses in hindsight and rewriting history after they have found their scapegoat? After all- those same people moved his contract from the original arrangement to and extension to the end of 2020 not that long ago. Why- if they were not happy with him.
It seems to me that BB was charged with playing the kids at all costs to accelerate their development and part of that equation was moving MM and Ed out of them being the main mids to performing more peripheral roles. You might call that being pigheaded but I find it hard to believe that he was acting entirely without direction. And I think everyone has forgotten how good the feedback was for the first 6 rounds- until the North loss. Sure the North loss was devastating but in hindsight it wasnt as bad as it seemed then because North have really turned into the form team of the AFL since then.

 

[Stamos]

But are we sure that the rhetoric coming out of the club isnt just the covering of peoples arses in hindsight and rewriting history after they have found their scapegoat? After all- those same people moved his contract from the original arrangement to and extension to the end of 2020 not that long ago. Why- if they were not happy with him.

Not at all. It came out in the review at the end of last season that Bolton was over-coaching, the game plan was over-complicated, and that Bolts wasn't delegating to his assistants enough. I'm sure the Club thought he would take these findings on board. They also brought Walls into the box.

But he didn't adapt.

It seems to me that BB was charged with playing the kids at all costs to accelerate their development and part of that equation was moving MM and Ed out of them being the main mids to performing more peripheral roles. You might call that being pigheaded but I find it hard to believe that he was acting entirely without direction. And I think everyone has forgotten how good the feedback was for the first 6 rounds- until the North loss. Sure the North loss was devastating but in hindsight it wasnt as bad as it seemed then because North have really turned into the form team of the AFL since then.

You really think the club gave him the direction to not win games this year? You've got to be kidding. They expected a big improvement (see the Stocker trade).
I really don't think people were very happy with close losses in games we should have won, but especially not when we didn't win the other games, but instead were smashed.

Nobody was giving good feedback at 1-6, but the North game was pathetic.
Again, the turning point wasn't until the aftermath of the Giants game.