Dawes knee?

[Vinnie Vegas]

luke darcy, round 6 2005 against the cats at kadinia park, and then did the same knee again in traning just before christmas 05'. it was his right knee both times.

That doesn't count, because Bulldogs' knees are cursed.

 

[Dundalis]

According to Hine, Dawes would have been ranked even higher than he was before the reco (top 30), if he wasn't playing second fiddle to Hawkins. He said his job in the team was basically to make leads to create space for Hawkins. Said that if Hawkins wasn't in the side and Dawes was playing that role he probably wouldn't have been available at 28 even with the reco.

 

[borgy]

That doesn't count, because Bulldogs' knees are cursed.

i guess so, hopefully from now on we can have a bit of luck

 

[Bay Pie]

The kid picks up lazy $45,000 next year and won't play a game-of AFL anyway.

But I have full confidence in the Hine and our medical staff.

Let's support the kid because if the supporters all get down on him it is going to put alot of unnecessary pressure on him.

 

[daics35]

just watched his highlights on ctv he looks the best of the first 3 picks don't worry about the knee ,they're all a risk(its a lottery).

 

[Macgyver]

Didn't the bloke who did Didaks knee do the job on Dawes? If so we should be confident the job was done right.
I'm not too worried about it. Btw i love the size of him i though Hawkins looked impressive but Dawes is a couple cms shorter and a bit heavier!! And judging by his my spaces pics there isnt much fat on him!! Monster of a kid for 18 and can play a bit. Ready made Chris Tarrant replacement if the knee holds up, worth the risk for mine.

 

[MarkT]

According to Hine, Dawes would have been ranked even higher than he was before the reco (top 30), if he wasn't playing second fiddle to Hawkins. He said his job in the team was basically to make leads to create space for Hawkins. Said that if Hawkins wasn't in the side and Dawes was playing that role he probably wouldn't have been available at 28 even with the reco.

Let’s be honest here. According to Collingwood every player they have drafted was expected to go at least a round earlier. Yet here we are with no ruck and midfield capable of making a preliminary finals let alone win a flag and still being forced to draft a spine even though we have had probably the best drafting position of any club since 1999. That has to say one thing loud and clear. We have failed in every aspect of list management.

I have nothing against Dawes. I have no more idea about him than virtually everyone else here that has read a bit about him. He is merely another in a long line of punts that have cost Collingwood so dearly. Hopefully this one pays off. The odds are certainly in favour of a win. Maybe Hine is a genius. He looks to have pulled some good moves but the way Collingwood fans rave about what he has drafted with early picks just sounds so familiar. As familiar as the results we put out year after year after year. As familiar as the people in charge and responsible for those results.

If you always do what you’ve always done you’ll always get what you’ve always got.

I am sick of Collingwood supporters accepting and excusing failure.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Let’s be honest here. According to Collingwood every player they have drafted was expected to go at least a round earlier.

No, according to Collingwood ONE player would have gone a round earlier if he hadn't have suffered an injury. Derek Hine did not express any surprise that any of the players were available at the picks we got them at.

Last year, I believe it was just Danny Stanley, who many agree was rated as a likely 1st round pick.

I am sick of Collingwood supporters accepting and excusing failure.

I'm sick of Collingwood supporters suggesting that we've failed before the season has even started.

I'm sure there were people just like you suggesting that we needed to make major changes to our list, and that we were headed nowhere going into the 1990 season... I'm not saying we're premiership contenders, but the point is, you have absolutely no idea where we're headed this year. At the start of last year, no one was predicting that Dane Swan would become one of our best players, or that Alan Didak would win our B&F and AA selection.

Instead of criticising the recruiting department when the drafting process isn't even over, and you haven't even seen any of the draftees play a game at VFL level, how about you sit tight, and stop whinging about our recruits until they've been given a chance to actually prove something?

 

[MarkT]

QUOTE=vinnie_vegas69;6308341]No, according to Collingwood ONE player would have gone a round earlier if he hadn't have suffered an injury. Derek Hine did not express any surprise that any of the players were available at the picks we got them at. [/QUOTE] I am talking about historically. It is a common cry of the club when they take a player and it is meaningless PR. The clubs determine the worth of a player and on draft they are worth exactly what is paid for them.

I'm sick of Collingwood supporters suggesting that we've failed before the season has even started.

Fair enough. I am suggesting we have failed in the past and not done enough about it. I am suggesting we are far to accepting of our failure and that perpetuates it. Look there is a pretty clear pattern here. 1 flag since 1958. Plenty has changed in that time but not our results. Why would our results change though when we as a club are so slow to react? We were once the leader. We have been the followers for all of my life and then some. Eddie has made some significant changes off the field but he has changes nothing whatsoever on the field. If anything he has been more accepting of a failed coach than his predecessors. Money is great. We are a football club.

I'm sure there were people just like you suggesting that we needed to make major changes to our list, and that we were headed nowhere going into the 1990 season...

I am sure there were. In fact I still one Collingwood supporter mate about an ”argument” we had about that very fact at the time. Ok so he and “they” were wrong. Great, you have 1 year out of nearly 50 to point at and one in which we were undoubtedly a surprise winner. The only thing that proves is you point is invalid at best.

Did you know that in 10 years under Mathews we did not win a single final apart from 1990 when we started the finals with a draw against West Coast who were playing away. Let’s not kid ourselves, we jagged one in an ordinary year. Does that matter? I don’t know but I do know it was an awesome feeling to win it and once in almost the average Australian‘s life span is about 10 too few.

I'm not saying we're premiership contenders, but the point is, you have absolutely no idea where we're headed this year. At the start of last year, no one was predicting that Dane Swan would become one of our best players, or that Alan Didak would win our B&F and AA selection.

Fair point. Now Swan, Shaw and Didak took significant steps. Guess what, given that and a good run with injury we finished 7th. That was on the back of a good pre season and a flying start where we were 8 wins from 11. The FACT is we were nowhere near good enough when the season got serious. Now I am saying we don’t seem to have addressed the deficiencies we had and that this is a common theme.

Instead of criticising the recruiting department when the drafting process isn't even over, and you haven't even seen any of the draftees play a game at VFL level, how about you sit tight, and stop whinging about our recruits until they've been given a chance to actually prove something?

I will repeat what I said. I don’t have much issue with the names we took. My issue is list structure and that means more than this draft. The context of this draft that bothers me is preceding trade and list structuring given our assessment of the draft. It isn’t about isolating individual decisions here and there as much as competent list management is ALL aspects. We are CRAP at the most important part modern day premiership deciding football club management.

 

[Daicosian]

Let’s be honest here. According to Collingwood every player they have drafted was expected to go at least a round earlier. Yet here we are with no ruck and midfield capable of making a preliminary finals let alone win a flag and still being forced to draft a spine even though we have had probably the best drafting position of any club since 1999. That has to say one thing loud and clear. We have failed in every aspect of list management.

I have nothing against Dawes. I have no more idea about him than virtually everyone else here that has read a bit about him. He is merely another in a long line of punts that have cost Collingwood so dearly. Hopefully this one pays off. The odds are certainly in favour of a win. Maybe Hine is a genius. He looks to have pulled some good moves but the way Collingwood fans rave about what he has drafted with early picks just sounds so familiar. As familiar as the results we put out year after year after year. As familiar as the people in charge and responsible for those results.

If you always do what you’ve always done you’ll always get what you’ve always got.

I am sick of Collingwood supporters accepting and excusing failure.

Geez whinger, got a bit of Pomme blood in you? Three or four years now, your MM and board that hires him complaints, have got steadily worse and worse. If you are not doing anything about making changes at the club to try and address these issues that you say are ongoing, you are no less accepting of failure than the rest. Do you get up at the AGM and demand to have your say expecting answers? Do you nominate for any positions in the club that may enable you to directly have input in the decisions that are made? Your ranting has become tiresome, with nearly every subject Collingwood related being addressed by you as an ongoing acceptance of failure and refusal to change, with generally MM being the problem. The day he is no longer at the club will still not change you, but merely give you a new name to add to being the problem.

You sound as though you know all, so to add another cliche - "put up or shut up"!

 

[TheBushranger]

Tom Davidson's knee reco's never came unstuck.

It was his natural knees that were weak - He did one and then the other. Never had an injury on either of his reconstructed knees.

Rhyce Shaw and Tarkyn Lockyer haven't experienced further problems from their knee reconstructions either.

I can't think of anyone in the last 5 years that has had a knee reco and then done the same knee again.

Francou and Darcy come to mind.

 

[Us3]

[/B]
Francou and Darcy come to mind.

i think he was talking about collingwood

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Francou and Darcy come to mind.

Francou I had forgotten about too, but even so, it's far less than the amount of people who come back with next to no problems with their knee.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Francou I had forgotten about too, but even so, it's far less than the amount of people who come back with next to no problems with their knee.

Talk it up all you like, its still a huge risk to draft an untried player with a bung knee, especially a key forward who is required to twist and turn. He'd want to be a gun, and by all accounts he is. Lets hope.

 

[PieLebo87]

Talk it up all you like, its still a huge risk to draft an untried player with a bung knee, especially a key forward who is required to twist and turn. He'd want to be a gun, and by all accounts he is. Lets hope.

Correct. There arent any doubts about players coming back without further problems with their knees. But how many players have ever come back equal or better then before their knees? Lockyer came back half the player he ever was and Shaw, it is fair to say, is not as couragous as he used to be, he still has doubts when playing. (Big call on Shaw, and I will cop it, but I think its true)
They said Dawes feared he'd never get a chance to play AFL again when he did it. How do we know he wont come back fine, but always be less hard at the ball because of the fear of another ACL?
Thats what happened with Davidson. He was emotionally ruined, and its ruined his AFL career.

 

[ant22]

Let’s be honest here. According to Collingwood every player they have drafted was expected to go at least a round earlier. Yet here we are with no ruck and midfield capable of making a preliminary finals let alone win a flag and still being forced to draft a spine even though we have had probably the best drafting position of any club since 1999. That has to say one thing loud and clear. We have failed in every aspect of list management.

I have nothing against Dawes. I have no more idea about him than virtually everyone else here that has read a bit about him. He is merely another in a long line of punts that have cost Collingwood so dearly. Hopefully this one pays off. The odds are certainly in favour of a win. Maybe Hine is a genius. He looks to have pulled some good moves but the way Collingwood fans rave about what he has drafted with early picks just sounds so familiar. As familiar as the results we put out year after year after year. As familiar as the people in charge and responsible for those results.

If you always do what you’ve always done you’ll always get what you’ve always got.

I am sick of Collingwood supporters accepting and excusing failure.

Being honest hear Mark, I have no idea if these are good picks or not. It just that I have faith in Hine and have been very happy with his picks to date. As I have stated I was not happy with the picks before Hine came in. I am not sure the could be classed as accepting medicority.

Having said that i am not one to slit my wrists when we loose . I get P!ssed of for a few minutes and move on . Because if I didn't i would be an unhappy B astard. I love my footy and will celebrate as hard as anyone when we do win a flag but I don't believe that just because we a re collingwood it will come any easier for us than it does for anyone else.

I don't for one second think we have been successful on field but I will stick with the club through thick and thin. I am also a massive believer in not getting to caught up in things I have no control over. And lets face it not one of us on this board has and is likely to ever have any influence on the on field performance of the team. I admire your passion mark and respect your views. I also enjoy the debates but I would hate for you to be SICK of us just because we have a different point of view and are half is glass full people so to speak. Its the way i am and the way I suspect a few others are. I won't be changing my opinion and I suspect you won't be changing yours.

Its all part of the fun of being involved in a forum like this. We all have different opinions.

 

[jimmy35]

If Lee Walker had come good, if Tom Davidson had come good….

When I was a kid it was Teasdale, Young, Edwards, etc, etc, etc.

Make no mistake we have taken a big gamble in what is supposed to be the best draft ever. Who knows if we could have lessened the gamble by waiting for a later round. What we do know is that we have a player that was never a given in the first place and he know has to overcome a knee reco before he can take his place among the hopefuls and develop into a player.

Bingo .
I have serious doubts as well . There was talk of a late pick or even rookieing him . It would have made more sense in my opinion to take that risk (him still being there) rather than the one they took .

 

[Jabso]

Woke up this morning thought I was dead but realised I was just still living in Tasmania.

And Launceston too. I hate Launceston.
BTW do you pronounce it Lorrrrrn-ses-ton or Lon-ses-ton.

 

[xplo]

Francou I had forgotten about too, but even so, it's far less than the amount of people who come back with next to no problems with their knee.

Pretty sure Richard Hadley did the same knee twice too.

 

[MarkT]

Do you get up at the AGM and demand to have your say expecting answers?

Yes.

Do you nominate for any positions in the club that may enable you to directly have input in the decisions that are made?

I have not nominated for the board if that is what you are asking. FWIW someone I have spoken to that did was heavied out of it.

Your ranting has become tiresome, with nearly every subject Collingwood related being addressed by you as an ongoing acceptance of failure and refusal to change, with generally MM being the problem.

Every subject? That’s just BS. I am not happy with MM or list management. The results are the arbiter.

The day he is no longer at the club will still not change you, but merely give you a new name to add to being the problem.

What do you base that on?

You sound as though you know all, so to add another cliche - "put up or shut up"!

What would you suggest?

 

[MarkT]

I don't for one second think we have been successful on field but I will stick with the club through thick and thin.

As I have done all my life which includes witnessing (live) 8 grand finals for 1 win and a draw and 2 spoons.

… I would hate for you to be SICK of us just because we have a different point of view and are half is glass full people so to speak.

Just a figure of speech.

And lets face it not one of us on this board has and is likely to ever have any influence on the on field performance of the team.

Certainly not if we always accept what we are dished up and never complain about it.

I won't be changing my opinion and I suspect you won't be changing yours.

I will when/if we win premierships. I no longer will if we lose grand finals and do SFA about it.

 

[GRANGE_GSM]

Tom Davidson's knee reco's never came unstuck.

It was his natural knees that were weak - He did one and then the other. Never had an injury on either of his reconstructed knees.

Rhyce Shaw and Tarkyn Lockyer haven't experienced further problems from their knee reconstructions either.

I can't think of anyone in the last 5 years that has had a knee reco and then done the same knee again.

luke darcy??

 

[ant22]

As I have done all my life which includes witnessing (live) 8 grand finals for 1 win and a draw and 2 spoons. Just a figure of speech. Certainly not if we always accept what we are dished up and never complain about it. I will when/if we win premierships. I no longer will if we lose grand finals and do SFA about it.

Mark If you are suggesting we as supporters are part of the reason the club has only won 1 flag in the last 50 years than you are giving all of us and yourself way too much credit.

All I can say is I am sure glas you don't support the Saints, Cats, Dogs and Dees

 

[inside_player]

at the end of the day...the pies rate him highly, his injury has obviously has made him less of a priority for most clubs....

i think the pies have made an educated punt on his recovery. to use pick 28?????? im not sure. this may indicate other clubs were keen to get ahold of him also.

from what i have read he was labeled a top 10 pick before his knee injury. this was a KPP draft a good chance to top up on some players in the spine.

i doubt most of you people complaining have seen his arthroscope, MRIs or other examinations. the pies have done numerous tests on his knee and with medical advice have selected him accordingly.

conc: dont whinge about him now...whinge about him in 3 years when he has been given the chance to prove himself. good KPPs are rare if this comes off it is going to hold the pies in good stead try to see the positives out of this.

 

[GRANGE_GSM]

at the end of the day...the pies rate him highly, his injury has obviously has made him less of a priority for most clubs....

i think the pies have made an educated punt on his recovery. to use pick 28?????? im not sure. this may indicate other clubs were keen to get ahold of him also.

from what i have read he was labeled a top 10 pick before his knee injury. this was a KPP draft a good chance to top up on some players in the spine.

i doubt most of you people complaining have seen his arthroscope, MRIs or other examinations. the pies have done numerous tests on his knee and with medical advice have selected him accordingly.

conc: dont whinge about him now...whinge about him in 3 years when he has been given the chance to prove himself. good KPPs are rare if this comes off it is going to hold the pies in good stead try to see the positives out of this.

apparently the eagles were the only team to contact him...and that was before the knee and after the knee injury apparently you guys were the only ones to show interest...IIRC one of his mates got on here and said something along those lines...