Dawes, Reid and N.Brown.

[TradeDraft]

Let's get this straight, if Dawes could take an overhead mark he would have some promise but he has very weak hands and goes for most of his marks on his chest. When he goes overhead he does not hang on to them.

He took a few Overhead Marks in the 2nd Half or did you miss them?

 

[Ickirus]

I thought both Brown and Reid played really well defensively, Brown was able to beat Hurley, Ryder and Hille when he played on them throughout the game. Reid also had some nicely timed spoils.

Dawes was ok for mine, my biggest concern with Dawes has been his terrible overhead marking, and it was poor today, but after he took the glove off at half time he was able to grab a couple. He still seems to take his eye off the ball and just stick his hands up when going for the overhead mark though.

I don't buy into Dawes taking the pressure off Cloke, considering Jack was getting the number 1 defender when he was playing, and Cloke was getting beaten by mid sized flankers such as Joel Macdonald, Cloke simply has improved his body on body work, and positioning in marking contests and is working harder.

All in all these young guys provide much more than what L.Brown can give, and should keep their places in the team for an extended run, however when Presti comes back Brown or Reid will likely be the unlucky ones.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I thought both Brown and Reid played really well defensively, Brown was able to beat Hurley, Ryder and Hille when he played on them throughout the game. Reid also had some nicely timed spoils.

Dawes was ok for mine, my biggest concern with Dawes has been his terrible overhead marking, and it was poor today, but after he took the glove off at half time he was able to grab a couple. He still seems to take his eye off the ball and just stick his hands up when going for the overhead mark though.

I don't buy into Dawes taking the pressure off Cloke, considering Jack was getting the number 1 defender when he was playing, and Cloke was getting beaten by mid sized flankers such as Joel Macdonald, Cloke simply has improved his body on body work, and positioning in marking contests and is working harder.

All in all these young guys provide much more than what L.Brown can give, and should keep their places in the team for an extended run, however when Presti comes back Brown or Reid will likely be the unlucky ones.

Cloke was also playing much closer to goal. Why was he able to do this? Because Dawes played Cloke's role. And Jack did not have the bulk, strength or height to take on the best defenders.

At least you recognise that Dawes has more to offer than Brown. I guess that is something learned.

 

[Ickirus]

Cloke was also playing much closer to goal. Why was he able to do this? Because Dawes played Cloke's role. And Jack did not have the bulk, strength or height to take on the best defenders.

At least you recognise that Dawes has more to offer than Brown. I guess that is something learned.

Cloke and Dawes both played deep and up the ground, and switched positions during the match, the difference between this match and others for Cloke is that he was able to outmark his opponents and actually kick straight for once.

The fact that Jack kicked 50 goals playing on the best defenders week in week out last season also proves you wrong, neither Dawes and in particular Cloke have been able to achieve this when playing on lesser defenders, and I highly doubt they will achieve it this year either.

Sure Anthony gets beaten by Scarlett and Lake, but they are elite defenders for a reason. How would Dawes, or Cloke for that matter go on these guys? We will soon find out.

Dawes was ok, nothing more, he got better in the second half, but his two goals came from a free kick, and a mark when his opponent fell over. Simply needs to improve his overhead marking, and for a tall forward this is a big weakness. He has set the standard, and he needs to maintain or improve on it, either way I hope to never see L.Brown in the 1's ever again.

 

[hellfire]

Love the Cloke deep and Dawes at CHF setup. Works beautifully.

Reid was excellent prior to his injury, looked very composed down back. Brown was good too.

 

[TradeDraft]

Dawes was ok, nothing more, he got better in the second half, but his two goals came from a free kick, and a mark when his opponent fell over. Simply needs to improve his overhead marking, and for a tall forward this is a big weakness. He has set the standard, and he needs to maintain or improve on it, either way I hope to never see L.Brown in the 1's ever again.

Dawes is a Better Overhead mark then he has been over the last few seasons.

Yes he needs to keep this up. But I think JA,Cloke and Dawes can playing in the Same Forward line as long as L Brown stays out of the AFL Side

 

[Ickirus]

Dawes is a Better Overhead mark then he has been over the last few seasons.

Yes he needs to keep this up. But I think JA,Cloke and Dawes can playing in the Same Forward line as long as L Brown stays out of the AFL Side

I agree Dave, but his overhead marking is still poor for a big forward, and its a weakness he will need to constantly work on, but he has a strong tank, and has a lot to work with.

He should get a good run in 1's to prove himself, as I believe young KPP's learn the most by playing against AFL quality players.

I also believe Jack, Cloke and Dawes can all play in the same forward line, I just don't like how people totally write off Jack after he was able to kick 50 goals last year playing on the best defender every week, and with little support from Cloke.

 

[loki04]

I agree Dave, but his overhead marking is still poor for a big forward, and its a weakness he will need to constantly work on, but he has a strong tank, and has a lot to work with.

He should get a good run in 1's to prove himself, as I believe young KPP's learn the most by playing against AFL quality players.

I also believe Jack, Cloke and Dawes can all play in the same forward line, I just don't like how people totally write off Jack after he was able to kick 50 goals last year playing on the best defender every week, and with little support from Cloke.

Dawes was stuck under some bombs against Essendona nd it allowed the bombers to come over the top of him hard to mark in that situation, also he was held onto and arm chopped for half the day and didn't any frees. Up the other end essendon forwards only had to be touched.

 

[TradeDraft]

I agree Dave, but his overhead marking is still poor for a big forward, and its a weakness he will need to constantly work on, but he has a strong tank, and has a lot to work with.

He should get a good run in 1's to prove himself, as I believe young KPP's learn the most by playing against AFL quality players.

I also believe Jack, Cloke and Dawes can all play in the same forward line, I just don't like how people totally write off Jack after he was able to kick 50 goals last year playing on the best defender every week, and with little support from Cloke.

Agree with that His Overhead Marking still is a Work in Progress. His Tank does really help him. Could almost be like Riewoldt as he can run big boys around..

I think JA best Position would be 3rd Tall

 

[TradeDraft]

Dawes was stuck under some bombs against Essendona nd it allowed the bombers to come over the top of him hard to mark in that situation, also he was held onto and arm chopped for half the day and didn't any frees. Up the other end essendon forwards only had to be touched.

Is there any Surprise There?

 

[Ickirus]

Dawes was stuck under some bombs against Essendona nd it allowed the bombers to come over the top of him hard to mark in that situation, also he was held onto and arm chopped for half the day and didn't any frees. Up the other end essendon forwards only had to be touched.

It is not those situations that are the problem, Dawes was able to get his hands on the ball quite a number of times when attempting an overhead mark, but he simply failed to hold onto them. This was primarily in the first half, and after half time he took the glove off and was able to take a few, however he still did drop a couple as well.

Our tall forwards have been getting robbed by the umpires for a long time, whether it was Rocca, or Tarrant, who in particular got nothing from the umps, or Anthony, and Cloke.

I'm not expecting Dawes to mark everything that comes his way, but his overhead marking is a pretty obvious weakness for him, I hope he does improve, as he could become a pretty good forward if he does so.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

If you were expecting any of these players to star, you were expecting too much and would come away disappointed. The most important thing is that they got experience on the big stage and showed they could develop into regulars.

Bloody oath. This thread is like the ****ing comedy hour, we've got people who are disappointed at the output of players with ~10 games to their credit because they're not matching Jon Brown or Nick Riewoldt.

Let's get this straight, if Dawes could take an overhead mark he would have some promise but he has very weak hands and goes for most of his marks on his chest. When he goes overhead he does not hang on to them.

He had the same problem at VFL level, and he improved and got past it. Now he's taking overhead marks in the VFL but the AFL is another step up and he faces better defenders. Dustin Fletcher and Tayte Pears are very good at sticking with their opponents, applying pressure and chopping the arms... Dawes will take some time to develop strategies to hold his marks under this level of defensive attention. He's doing enough to maintain his spot while he improves, and thank God because he won't improve to the desired level while rotting away in the VFL. It was his 11th AFL game FFS.

Dawes was ok for mine, my biggest concern with Dawes has been his terrible overhead marking, and it was poor today, but after he took the glove off at half time he was able to grab a couple. He still seems to take his eye off the ball and just stick his hands up when going for the overhead mark though.

I agree, he was just okay. However he showed good signs, and gave a lot more than L Brown has this season. I'm looking forward to a natural curve of improvement with gametime.

I don't buy into Dawes taking the pressure off Cloke, considering Jack was getting the number 1 defender when he was playing, and Cloke was getting beaten by mid sized flankers such as Joel Macdonald, Cloke simply has improved his body on body work, and positioning in marking contests and is working harder.

I don't buy it either, but he does allow Cloke to play closer to goal, which JA does not. He also gets out of Cloke's space, which JA does not.

Love the Cloke deep and Dawes at CHF setup. Works beautifully.

Agree, although they obviously switched around at times.

 

[mattys123]

I still think Dawes' stats were quite good, in fact I think they were bloody good.

To have 15 possessions, take 6 marks, have 3 shots at goal (kicking 2) and to lay 3 tackles, would have been above most peoples expectations for this weeks game.

I really think he took a huge step forward in his career yesterday, and I have no qualms in saying that was the best senior game I have seen Dawes play.

Loved his body work too, especially on Hurley in the 3rd, just was simply too strong for him.

Will be great to see him again against the Blues, who have a slightly better backline in Jamison and most likely Waite.

 

[Kirby]

I was very pleased with Dawes game and I've been a bit of a critic in the past. Yes, he still dropped a few early but I was very impressed by his body positioning which has improved immensely. He also attempted to take marks at full stretch which is a great sign. If he can start making them all stick he'll make a real player.

I also thought that structurally he really improved us because he was able to switch roles with Cloke. It really opened up our forward line and I liked it. Dawes and Cloke seemed to work very well together and they both presented. Dawes also helped straighten us up a bit and most of our shots on goal ended up being from directly in front, rather than the pockets.

I was impressed with Reid before he copped that injury in the third quarter that slowed him down. I've said ever since he was put in the back line last year that he will make a really good player. Quite excited by him. He is actually a very good field kick too.

Nate Brown did a Presti. Thrashed Hurley in first half. Didn't lose a contest all day. Liked his efforts.

 

[TradeDraft]

I still think Dawes' stats were quite good, in fact I think they were bloody good.

To have 15 possessions, take 6 marks, have 3 shots at goal (kicking 2) and to lay 3 tackles, would have been above most peoples expectations for this weeks game.

I really think he took a huge step forward in his career yesterday, and I have no qualms in saying that was the best senior game I have seen Dawes play.

Loved his body work too, especially on Hurley in the 3rd, just was simply too strong for him.

Will be great to see him again against the Blues, who have a slightly better backline in Jamison and most likely Waite.

Will be Intresting How he Backs Up because yesterday's game could be the making of Dawes as he probably feels he Belongs in the AFL and more Confidence the Better for the Big Man

 

[Philpie]

I thought Dawes was very good yesterday, Ithink a lot of you people out there are hard markers, I can think of two overhead marks that he almost took yesterday, under intense pressure,I'm confident they will startsticking to his mitts soon, watching the boy at Casey last week , he took a couple of cracking contested overhead marks, just have a little patience .

 

[The Royal Sampler]

He had the same problem at VFL level, and he improved and got past it. Now he's taking overhead marks in the VFL but the AFL is another step up and he faces better defenders. Dustin Fletcher and Tayte Pears are very good at sticking with their opponents, applying pressure and chopping the arms... Dawes will take some time to develop strategies to hold his marks under this level of defensive attention. He's doing enough to maintain his spot while he improves, and thank God because he won't improve to the desired level while rotting away in the VFL. It was his 11th AFL game FFS.

Just with reference to what I said about Dawes and AFL-quality defenders, here's a quote from Dawes on the cfc website in an article by Jonathon Bernard.



In his first match of the 2010 season, the young Magpie was forced to contend against two-time All-Australian Dustin Fletcher with the 21-year-old finishing with two majors and 15 possessions.



“He is a brilliant player. I noticed that a couple of times when I was going to mark the ball his go go gadget arms came in and spoiled it.

“I’ll have to learn from that experience playing on a taller defender who has a longer reach than me.”

Seriously, this is exactly what I'm saying. You don't get to improve your game against players of Dustin Fletcher's quality by playing against hacks in the VFL. He'll learn from this experience and he'll improve. Go Dawesome.

 

[TradeDraft]

I thought Dawes was very good yesterday, Ithink a lot of you people out there are hard markers, I can think of two overhead marks that he almost took yesterday, under intense pressure,I'm confident they will startsticking to his mitts soon, watching the boy at Casey last week , he took a couple of cracking contested overhead marks, just have a little patience .

Espically in the Last Quarter when he helped us get over the line

 

[TradeDraft]

Just with reference to what I said about Dawes and AFL-quality defenders, here's a quote from Dawes on the cfc website in an article by Jonathon Bernard.


Seriously, this is exactly what I'm saying. You don't get to improve your game against players of Dustin Fletcher's quality by playing against hacks in the VFL. He'll learn from this experience and he'll improve. Go Dawesome.

Spot, Dawes is past play against Never-Will-Be's FB's in the VFL he needs to play AFL and Learn from it

 

[MagpieJoel]

Some of you need to go watch a replay of the game.

Dawes was very good. Just needs to take a few more strong marks. Yes, he still needs to improve, but he showed some goos signs yesterday.

Reid did all you could ask for IMO. His spoling was a highlight, and I like is agility.

Brown, seemed the quietest of the lot to me, but he did his job.

Some of you judge the blokes waaaay to harshly. They are young KPPs, give them some time.

 

[TradeDraft]

Some of you need to go watch a replay of the game.

Dawes was very good. Just needs to take a few more strong marks. Yes, he still needs to improve, but he showed some goos signs yesterday.

Reid did all you could ask for IMO. His spoling was a highlight, and I like is agility.

Brown, seemed the quietest of the lot to me, but he did his job.

Some of you judge the blokes waaaay to harshly. They are young KPPs, give them some time.

Agree some people here expect them to Dominate. They are Kids and they did there part

 

[buzzbuzz]

I'm a little surprised; I thought this thread must have been made by an Essendon poster, apologizing for underestimating our young KPPs so badly.

 

[richo2308]

all played there roll well Reid and Brown didnt get much of the ball but shut down there opponents which is what they needed to do. Dawes had his 15 touches 2 goals got better as the game went on will only get better if we continue to play him. So i would be expecting all to play next week.

 

[TradeDraft]

all played there roll well Reid and Brown didnt get much of the ball but shut down there opponents which is what they needed to do. Dawes had his 15 touches 2 goals got better as the game went on will only get better if we continue to play him. So i would be expecting all to play next week.

Pretty much what was said on One Wee at a Time also Maxwell said you have to remember he came to the Club with a Stuffed Knee

 

[lgarth80]

Dawes was good, not great. I remember his first game vividly where he rag-dolled Max Hudghton in a marking contest and I thought we had a good one here.

He struggles with overhead marks, but works hard, and has physical presence. Desperately needs confidence and the challenge of regular AFL to get him to take those big marks. The good thing he seemed to offer more than anything was a contest. A bit like 'big Tony' Rocca, with our ground level skill if a big fella only squares up the contest, we will win at the fall and win the day. The reason St Kilda and Geelong own us at the moment is down to Gilbert, Fisher, Milburn and Scarlett. Keep them honest, and Dawes could be the man.

Reid was average. Particularly one on one with Gumbleton. Good for his experience though and looked really cool under pressure so that was a real positive. Still think he will struggle in big marking contests against the best forwards (e.g. Franklin/Riewoldt) until he has another 50+ games under the belt. Will only improve with AFL experience and failures. We cannot rely on him to be our missing link to beat teams like Hawthorn with Buddy or St Kilda with Roo - not this year at least. Would love to see him get another 12 or 13 games this year.

Brown did his job nothing more. The perfect Presti replacement. Has size and presence, but not much creativity. You don't need it if you shut down players who have been hyped as much as Hurley. The Bomber did nothing of note apart from a cheap goal from a soft handball over the top.

I'd play each of these in horses-for-courses games. They do look strong for our future especially compared with Leigh Brown. Our depth is looking very strong and I am looking forward to seeing us finally running deep into September with a full and healthy list and lots of players underneath putting pressure on.