Dawes vs. Anthony

[HFF]

I actually prefer a three-prong tall attack and think Dawes-Cloke-Jack will work very well and stretch opposition match-ups down back.

The real wildcard would be if Rus was fully fit and available for senior selection as a forward.

Headaches.

 

[StillWaiting5689]

Well it be the same for all our Forwards, Will be intresting to what happens after the North game when we play:

• Freo
• Geelong
• Brisbane
• Bulldogs

That when we will find out about Dawes I guess and Where we sit in our Flag Tilt

Is a tough month after the North game, we could lose any one of those matches so if Dawes stands up then he will get huge kudos, plus like you say the team will know how it is going as well.

 

[Mickaman]

Well it be the same for all our Forwards, Will be intresting to what happens after the North game when we play:

• Freo
• Geelong
• Brisbane
• Bulldogs

That when we will find out about Dawes I guess and Where we sit in our Flag Tilt

Spot on in both cases. Might be the thumpings we have handed out or Dawes or even goal kicking accuracy. But Cloke has looked like getting back to his 2007 form in the last couple of weeks. I think we will know roughly where we are at after the Sydney match.

 

[Old Spice]

Get on board the 3 tall fwd line!

 

[Number 10]

If we can spur Anthony on to take on the role of Utility - i.e. going back when needed and coming forward for some goals, it will be similar to the L Brown, Anthony, Cloke set up. But a MUCH better L Brown being used as utility, and a much better Anthony (marking/contesting wise) in Dawes.

 

[HFF]

If we can spur Anthony on to take on the role of Utility - i.e. going back when needed and coming forward for some goals, it will be similar to the L Brown, Anthony, Cloke set up. But a MUCH better L Brown being used as utility, and a much better Anthony (marking/contesting wise) in Dawes.

Spur him on for what?

He is the best sharpshooter in the team and perhaps in the comp too.

He should not be used as a "swingman" or utility.

He is a key forward and should remain around the attacking arc where he does his best work- kicking goals!

 

[Swan4Brownlow]

HF: Medhurst Cloke Didak
FF: Dick Dawes Anthony

I think it's pretty simple really. There is no rule which states that we have to play our 2nd ruckman as a forward. So what if Fraser only spends 50% of the time on the ground? Let him do his share of the rucking for around 30%, he can run around as a tall wingman/link player for another 20% and then get the hell off the ground and leave the FORWARDS to do the forward work. Same goes with Jolly. If he kicks goals floating down in general play then great. But ffs can we please stop with this Fraser/Jolly experiment in the forward line? Neither Fraser NOR Jolly have taken a single contested grab in the forward line in 6 rounds of football. Leave the forward line work to the bloody forwards and we will be a much better team.

For those arguing we should play 1 ruck and have Dawes pinch hit, it would be utterly stupid to play only one ruck because while we would have upgraded on Fraser from last year, the whole idea of getting Jolly over was to have two capable ruckmen able of influencing the game, so why go back to having th same issue?

As for those saying that Anthony should be in the backline, just remember Anthony kicked 50 goals in a season of full forward on the games best defenders. Dawes has kicked 5 goals in two weeks against 2 teams who are renowned for leaking goals. Some of the tripe I've read on here is ridiculous. If Dawes shows he can continue to have such a big impact against a WB, STK or GEEL then great, but until then he's proven nothing that we didn't already know. Yes he is big and yes he can kick goals against hopeless backlines, but beating Carltank and the Bombers wont get us anywhere this year.

The amount of jubilation I have seen on this board over the past few days is worrying. We've beaten the Hawks, Essendon and Carlton, 3 sides who will have sweet f*ck all influence on the finals this year, and I've seen about 10 toast threads. Yes our boys have been playing well, but some of us are getting so far ahead of ourselves that posters from other boards reading this must be rubbing their hands together in anticipation should we fall over again against the top sides. Let's just wait untill we've navigated the patch of games including Freo, Geelong, the Lions, Dogs, Melbourne and Swannies until we start to think we are a real show this year. As of yet we've proven nothing. WAKE UP GUYS!

 

[TradeDraft]

Spot on in both cases. Might be the thumpings we have handed out or Dawes or even goal kicking accuracy. But Cloke has looked like getting back to his 2007 form in the last couple of weeks. I think we will know roughly where we are at after the Sydney match.

Agree after Swans game we should have a Fair Idea where we stand in the Comp

 

[Old Spice]

Medders kicked 50 as well in 2008. Jack is only new, but that doesn't mean he will keep ratcheting up the goal tally, any more than Clokes 2007 meant he would keep improving. The extra scrutiny Jack would receive off his 50 goal season can mean his progress stalls.

There's also a hidden assumption that playing in defence is some retrograde step. Some of St Kilda's best players are in the backline: Gilbert, Fisher, Gram, not to mention spells from Dal Santo and Goddard. It's where you set up forward thrusts from and good kick(er)s are at a premium.

It's worth trying jack back, or in a 3 tall forward structure, or as part of two. Whatever works best as a combination, but to write it off as stupid before it's even happened makes no sense to me.

 

[Ickirus]

Re: dawes vs anthony

I'm a JA fan but no he isn't.

That is a point I totally disagree with, and while he is best suited to lead and mark, IMO one of Jacks biggest strengths and undervalued attributes, is his ability to launch himself and crash a pack of 2 or more defenders and still bring the ball down, which he does regularly.

Yes, he might get outmarked by guys like Lake and Scarlett, but they are called elite defenders for a reason, and he has played some stellar games on guys like Rutten, Carlile, Pears, and Tarrant.

I have not seen Dawes crash any packs in the AFL, and rarely in the VFL either. Dawes simply being heavier than Anthony doesn't mean he crashes packs, if he starts crashing packs like Anthony does I'll eat my words. I really like Dawes, and he is starting to show he can make it and deserves his chance, however I think Anthony is harshly judged on this board, and imagine if Dawes kicked 50 goals last year, I think he would get far more respect than Anthony receives.

Ideally Cloke, Anthony and Dawes could all play together, as we have been using a 3 tall forward structure all year, and at the start of the season had 4 talls, in Fraser, Cloke, Anthony and L.Brown, which is too many. Fraser just simply needs to be replaced by Anthony, but that leaves Fraser with no position, which creates a difficult issue.

 

[TradeDraft]

Re: dawes vs anthony

That is a point I totally disagree with, and while he is best suited to lead and mark, IMO one of Jacks biggest strengths and undervalued attributes, is his ability to launch himself and crash a pack of 2 or more defenders and still bring the ball down, which he does regularly.

Yes, he might get outmarked by guys like Lake and Scarlett, but they are called elite defenders for a reason, and he has played some stellar games on guys like Rutten, Carlile, Pears, and Tarrant.

I have not seen Dawes crash any packs in the AFL, and rarely in the VFL either. Dawes simply being heavier than Anthony doesn't mean he crashes packs, if he starts crashing packs like Anthony does I'll eat my words. I really like Dawes, and he is starting to show he can make it and deserves his chance, however I think Anthony is harshly judged on this board, and imagine if Dawes kicked 50 goals last year, I think he would get far more respect than Anthony receives.

Ideally Cloke, Anthony and Dawes could all play together, as we have been using a 3 tall forward structure all year, and at the start of the season had 4 talls, in Fraser, Cloke, Anthony and L.Brown, which is too many. Fraser just simply needs to be replaced by Anthony, but that leaves Fraser with no position, which creates a difficult issue.

Well I saw at least 1 and I dare say there where more on Saturday.

1 or say was 2 Blues players going for the ball and 1 Took it but Dawes was also going for it and even when the guy marked it he just ran straight through him

 

[HFF]

Re: dawes vs anthony

Well I saw at least 1 and I dare say there where more on Saturday.

1 or say was 2 Blues players going for the ball and 1 Took it but Dawes was also going for it and even when the guy marked it he just ran straight through him

Not yet Dave.

I was impressed with Dawesy and he took some really strong courageous marks but he did not crash any packs in doing so and hasn't as of yet. Was still very impressed with his output.

Jack has split packs wide open with his willingness to just throw himself into it (either be it for better or worse). He is not receiving enough credit in this area as he often competes in outnumbered situations and his overhead ability is incredibly strong be it contested or out in front of his face with a defender right on his hammer.

Hopefully Jack comes in this week. He makes us so much better and dangerous.

 

[Gambit78]

Re: dawes vs anthony

Aren't we exxaggerating the importance of 'crashing packs' a little? The reason why a forward would be required to crash a pack is because we aren't moving the ball through the midfield quick enough to avoid an opposition's zone. Crashing packs suggests we are entering our forward 50 too slowly and players like Cloke, Dawes, Anthony or whoever have to contend with 2-3 defenders every time they fly for the ball. If we need our forwards to crash packs, then we are playing a poor form of football across the entire field.

This is why Dawes gets my nod. Whilst Anthony can throw himself into a pack, and is a good shot on goal, if we continue to play the brand of football we've started 2010 with, then what we require up forward are players that are good one-on-one. And unfortunately, due to a restricted pre-season that prevented Anthony from bulking up a little, he falls well behind a group of players in the one-on-one stakes. Anthony is a great lead and mark player, but rubbish body on body. Dawes, from what I saw against Carlton, is more than handy on the lead, but can also hold his own body on body. A few people have raised the prospects of Dawes performing against high-end backmen like Lake and Scarlett. To be honest, I have more faith in Dawes than I do in Anthony against them.

Ultimately though, and this applies to all our forwards, how we bring the ball in from further up the field, determines how our forwards perform. And at the moment, even Charlie Manson would look great in our team.

 

[mdc]

Re: dawes vs anthony

Aren't we exxaggerating the importance of 'crashing packs' a little? The reason why a forward would be required to crash a pack is because we aren't moving the ball through the midfield quick enough to avoid an opposition's zone. Crashing packs suggests we are entering our forward 50 too slowly and players like Cloke, Dawes, Anthony or whoever have to contend with 2-3 defenders every time they fly for the ball. If we need our forwards to crash packs, then we are playing a poor form of football across the entire field.

This is true, but it's near impossible to move the ball quickly enough all the time against a team like St.Kilda and to a lesser extent Geelong. And we'll need to beat at least one of them in the Finals.

 

[danielnajdek]

Re: dawes vs anthony

Dawes by the Flemington straight not even close imo.

 

[HFF]

Re: dawes vs anthony

Dawes by the Flemington straight not even close imo.

Oh dear.

mdc, do not look here.

 

[danielnajdek]

Re: dawes vs anthony

Oh dear.

mdc, do not look here.

why?? couldn't give two hoots what anyone else thinks it's my opinion.

 

[HFF]

Re: dawes vs anthony

why?? couldn't give two hoots what anyone else thinks it's my opinion.

I can handle a rational opinion that has merit but this type of stuff is hilarious.

Tell me, which of Dawes' 15 career goals from 12 games impresses you most when comparing them to Jack's 78 goals from 38 games??

I want Dawesy to succeed as much as anyone because I want this football club to succeed, however, I cannot believe how quickly Jack is being undersold by the "flemington straight".

 

[TradeDraft]

Re: dawes vs anthony

I can handle a rational opinion that has merit but this type of stuff is hilarious.

Tell me, which of Dawes' 15 career goals from 12 games impresses you most when comparing them to Jack's 78 goals from 38 games??

I want Dawesy to succeed as much as anyone because I want this football club to succeed, however, I cannot believe how quickly Jack is being undersold by the "flemington straight".

JA is the Best Kick for Goal in the AFL so No Wonder he has fair few goals but JA has about a whole season more experience then Dawes

 

[HFF]

Re: dawes vs anthony

JA is the Best Kick for Goal in the AFL so No Wonder he has fair few goals but JA has about a whole season more experience then Dawes

If Jack is the best kick for goal in the league, why are there all these calls for Jack to "shift" to defence because all of a sudden Dawesy has "overtaken" him?

I'm just not sold and perhaps delusional like "everyone else" that Dawes is light years ahead of Jack and there are a few others that sensibly agree with my views too.

In the heat of the battle, with the game in the balance, if I had to pick between the two in order to win the match, I would choose Jack in an instant because his ability to make something out of nothing with limited opportunities is incredibly rare and goals are simply paramount in AFL footy- something Jack delivers very well.

 

[danielnajdek]

Re: dawes vs anthony

I can handle a rational opinion that has merit but this type of stuff is hilarious.

Tell me, which of Dawes' 15 career goals from 12 games impresses you most when comparing them to Jack's 78 goals from 38 games??

I want Dawesy to succeed as much as anyone because I want this football club to succeed, however, I cannot believe how quickly Jack is being undersold by the "flemington straight".

the three he kicked on the weekend impressed me unlike jack who when he was in the side couldn't get a kick let alone kick a goal. as for jacks magnificant goal kicking it fell to pieces late last year (except for one)and hasn't been great so far this year. even when he kicked 5 in the vfl he was still missing goals he should kick.

 

[Gambit78]

Re: dawes vs anthony

This is true, but it's near impossible to move the ball quickly enough all the time against a team like St.Kilda and to a lesser extent Geelong. And we'll need to beat at least one of them in the Finals.

True. Generally in games against other top sides, it is the midfield movement, and which team gets on top in that area, that determines victory. I often wonder, and curious to know what you think, if Dawes had played against the Saints, whether the result would have been a little different? He straightens us up, and the one thing I think he has over Anthony is that, whilst both may 'crash packs' Dawes is more effective with the second and third efforts in those packs when the ball hits the ground. Purely because of his strength. And I don't want to sound like a JA detractor either, I simply think Jack needs to get some size on him. The fact that his shoulder injury prevented him from building up some muscle in the pre-season has cost him his position. He needs size. Once he gets it he'll lock in his position in the starting 22. No doubt. Over the next few years, I see Jack developing into the new Daniel Bradshaw.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Re: dawes vs anthony

I don't really buy into this, because I don't think it's a matter of one or the other. I do, however, believe that Dawes is far superior at allowing Cloke to play at his best, so I hope that when JA returns up forward in one capacity or another, he stays out of Cloke's leading space (and vice versa of course).

 

[stui magpie]

Re: dawes vs anthony

I don't really buy into this, because I don't think it's a matter of one or the other. I do, however, believe that Dawes is far superior at allowing Cloke to play at his best, so I hope that when JA returns up forward in one capacity or another, he stays out of Cloke's leading space (and vice versa of course).

Now that's a very realistic point of view. Which one is the better player is subjective, they're both good. ATM, Dawes seems to be enabling the forward line to play better. It's not about him, it's about what he adds to the whole forward line. If that changes and jack stays in good form for the VFL team, then we'll see what happens.

 

[Snag Breac]

Re: dawes vs anthony

I don't really buy into this, because I don't think it's a matter of one or the other. I do, however, believe that Dawes is far superior at allowing Cloke to play at his best, so I hope that when JA returns up forward in one capacity or another, he stays out of Cloke's leading space (and vice versa of course).

Quite! Would be good to see all three running around up front.