Roast Dawes

[Krueger]

Generally, yes, that's exactly what a good power forward will do.

Yes but thats not one if his strengths at this stage. He was in front of his many many times last night only to have the ball fly over his head with the Geelong defender climbing all over him.

 

[didaka]

Definitely need to persist with him. He's going to be a much better prospect with 50 senior games behind him than 14 senior games behind him.

I won't comment on his game, but what I will comment on is how rock solid the Geelong defence is. How they have the confidence to defend a key forward, how the zone off and leave the mean to help each other out, how when the ball is turned over, they back their teammates in to win the contest and break for him creating options all over defence to easily carry the ball out.

Are we a threat this year? Maybe in the sense that Hawthorn were in 2008. Reality is, Geelong won't get better, we will. We're carrying a lot more youth in our side, and we'll keep improving due to this, while Geelong start to fall (most likely in 2011).

If you look at the sides you'd probably say Joel Selwood was their youngest player, maybe Hawkins. They're men. They're premiership players.

You look at our youngest and it would've been Steele Sidebottom. He's a skinny kid.

The gap has closed a bit, and it will continue to close.

We're likely to play them 3 times this year. Maybe we can sneak a win in one of them.

 

[Ickirus]

Its not that Dawes is absolutely terrible and not worth persisting with, but its the contrasting treatment between Anthony and Dawes which I think is unfair.

BOTH Anthony and Dawes should get beaten by the best defenders, Scarlett, Lake are elite for a reason, look at Bradshaw and Fev, neither could get a kick on Scarlett.

Anthony however was crucified for not performing on these guys, yet Dawes is given more fair treatment. Yes the delivery was crap last night, but it was crap last year when we played Geelong and got flogged by them when Anthony was holding down FF as well. Anthony also kicked 50 goals last year, with little support from Cloke who at the time was getting beaten by mid size flankers.

I also don't buy into the stuff about Anthony not being big enough for a FF, he is 192 cm, and Dawes is a massive 1cm taller at 193cm. Some of the great FF's have been around 192cm, Lloyd, Fev, Pavlich, Bradshaw etc. Dawes is heavier, but Anthony can still put on some kilos, but his shoulder this preseason obviously restricted him doing this.

Dawes while bigger is a terrible overhead mark, which nullifies any height advantage, and for a guy of his size rarely does he ever actually 'crash packs' like Anthony does.

I'd prefer all 3 of Cloke, Dawes and Anthony playing, as i think we play much better with 3 talls who bring the ball down, rather than bombing it in long to Davis and expecting him to take a mark over a much bigger opponent.

 

[didaka]

Dawes will be hitting his prime when Scarlett and Lake are out of the game.

It's players like Frawley, Pears etc he'll be coming up against time and time again.

I still feel Dawes will be better for our structure than Anthony and if you were to compare Anthony and Dawes at 50 games each, I think Dawes will be a better option.

 

[AsianWithAFro]

delivery was pretty shit house but I think we have to keep in mind that every game he will play will be flawless. The team overall played pretty poorly

 

[TradeDraft]

Definitely need to persist with him. He's going to be a much better prospect with 50 senior games behind him than 14 senior games behind him.

I won't comment on his game, but what I will comment on is how rock solid the Geelong defence is. How they have the confidence to defend a key forward, how the zone off and leave the mean to help each other out, how when the ball is turned over, they back their teammates in to win the contest and break for him creating options all over defence to easily carry the ball out.

Are we a threat this year? Maybe in the sense that Hawthorn were in 2008. Reality is, Geelong won't get better, we will. We're carrying a lot more youth in our side, and we'll keep improving due to this, while Geelong start to fall (most likely in 2011).

If you look at the sides you'd probably say Joel Selwood was their youngest player, maybe Hawkins. They're men. They're premiership players.

You look at our youngest and it would've been Steele Sidebottom. He's a skinny kid.

The gap has closed a bit, and it will continue to close.

We're likely to play them 3 times this year. Maybe we can sneak a win in one of them.

Very True Didaka and The 2 Talls mostly had 2-3 Cats on them where against other Sides they where 1 out

 

[Bay Pie]

I really like Dawes and he has hepled ourt structure and am all for JA playing also.

If JA plays last night, does Scarlett play as a loose man or does he go to JA? He goes to JA because he is very dangerous and doesn't lack any confidence, no doubt.

JA must be in the team, hopefully not at Dawes expense.

Didak/Davis Cloke Medhurst
Dick (once fit) Dawes JA

Didak & Davis rotate midfield and forward. If JA can really apply himself to relentlessly apply defensive pressure when he doesn't have the footy, this forwardline can work.

As Ickirus has said, if we are going to bomb it in long, I want it to one of 3 talls not Leon or Medders

 

[TradeDraft]

Dawes will be hitting his prime when Scarlett and Lake are out of the game.

It's players like Frawley, Pears etc he'll be coming up against time and time again.

I still feel Dawes will be better for our structure than Anthony and if you were to compare Anthony and Dawes at 50 games each, I think Dawes will be a better option.

Spot On Mate - Not saying Anthony should not play but It's a FF where Dawes has the Potential to be

 

[Go_collingwood_]

That was his 15th game, and realistically, his first against absolute top class opposition (premiership contenders).

He would have learnt more out of last nights game then just about his first 14 combined.

I'd like to ask how any top KP forward went in their 15th game against the reigning premier, and the answer in I'd say 99% of the cases would be; terrible.

The delivery was terrible last night, and for some reason Cloke was marking the ball closer to half back then half forward, meaning he had to kick it 60-70 metres to Dawes at times.

Dawes wasn't the reason why we lost, far from it.

He will be better next week against the depleted Lions backline.

this is what i mean

DAWES STEPPING UP AGAINST CRAP TEAMS OR "DEPLETED" BACKLINES DOES NOT PROVE ANYTHING ANY HALF DECENT FORWARD CAN DO THAT. EG HAWKINS, EDDIE BETTS AND JUSTIN KOSCHITZKE

we needed him to step up and prove his worth against the real good teams like Geelong and he went missing.

now im not saying his the only 1 because both Leon and Caffa were both just as awful but to say "its ok he will do better against a terrible backline" or "dw we have north melbourne next week he will be good" is plain discraceful and proves if we have this attitude against under performing players we may as well start the excuses now for when we lose in the finals due to **** like this

 

[Yam yam]

Comparing apples with oranges there. Dawes has barely been in the AFL system, give him time. Stop being so fickle.

 

[Go_collingwood_]

Comparing apples with oranges there. Dawes has barely been in the AFL system, give him time. Stop being so fickle.

well then we need to deside

A) are we a developing team looking to go for the flag in 3 years?

or

B) are we a team that wants to win the flag now?

i know what i want and its not option A

 

[Yam yam]

You can do both. It's a round nine game, and giving him this experience will definitely help him develop and pinpoint what he needs to work on in the future.

You're acting like this is a doomsday type scenario. It simply isn't, we're still in a great position for September, and the only way we will get better is exposing our developing players who have the biggest ability to improve against top quality opposition.

 

[lethalburns]

I personally thought he ran under the ball all night which had very little to do with overhead marking ability and more to do with reading the ball.

 

[TradeDraft]

Comparing apples with oranges there. Dawes has barely been in the AFL system, give him time. Stop being so fickle.

They sure are mate. Give a Kid a season or 2

 

[Go_collingwood_]

I personally thought he ran under the ball all night which had very little to do with overhead marking ability and more to do with reading the ball.

well from where i was sitting on the flank it was overhead marking but you could have a point here

 

[TradeDraft]

well from where i was sitting on the flank it was overhead marking but you could have a point here

I agree with lethalburns he looked more out of position that made it hard for him to take the overhead marks. Though the bad Delivery he got did not help

 

[danielnajdek]

How many did Cloke kick last night? None.Tells you the disposal to our tall forwards was non existant.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The other question I have is the Collingwood selection committee. Why drop Anthony for a midfielder? The two disappointing Collingwood games, last night and St Kilda game the game plan was a defensive one not Collingwood on the attack. If Anthony had to go it should have been for another forward marking option IMO.

Isn't it obvious? O'Bree's 10 touches are uber important. They allow Pendlebury to play outside of the centre square where he does his best work, so that he can be ineffectual. What's more, while we kick 20+ against most sides these days, against last year's GFists we prefer to keep it to 4-6 goals with quadruple that in behinds, because we think a fast, running forward line with no structure is the way to bomb it in long and turn it over.

Where was jack anthonys " his just learning " supporters?

Everyone rates JA. However everyone could also see that he wasn't fit enough after his preseason surgery, and he needed to get runs on the board in the VFL before returning. I'm not sure why on earth he was dropped after last week, however.

He will be better next week against the depleted Lions backline.

Oh yeah. I'm looking forward to that one.

How many did Cloke kick last night? None. Tells you the disposal to our tall forwards was non existant.

That's because MM thinks Leon Davis is clearly our premier contested marking option.

 

[Go_collingwood_]

very true royal

but alot of people back dawes before anthony even if Jack kicked 10 goals

 

[TradeDraft]

very true royal

but alot of people back dawes before anthony even if Jack kicked 10 goals

Well as We say Dawes is a FF while JA is a 3rd Tall. I would love to see JA Kick 10 Goals

 

[rose jam]

Dawes is going to have plenty of bad games in his first 50 like every KPF. Hopefully it's like every 4th week, that's acceptable.

 

[TradeDraft]

Dawes is going to have plenty of bad games in his first 50 like every KPF. Hopefully it's like every 4th week, that's acceptable.

Yeah Very True. Hope he responds well vs the Lions next week

 

[Visions]

Not a great game, but there's a lot to like about him. I wish Reid would keep his feet and i would be over the moon if Dawes extended the dukes more often instead of trying to take a chest mark.

Great photo in todays Herald Sun showing this. Dawes going for the chest mark when he should be extending the arms. Defender knocks the arms instead of the ball and if he doesn't take the mark, its a free kick instead.

 

[loki04]

I was right on the fence last night in M23.
The whole night, Cloke and Dawes were being held by their opponents when going for a contest and no free kicks were paid.
The delivery to them was not the best either.
Very difficult to take marks when the ball is kicked over your head or if you have 1 opposition w***er holding your arm so you cannot make a contest and at the same time being surrounded by another 2defenders pouncing on the ball.
.....and yes - I agree the handball to Wellingham was stupid. It happened right in front of me. There were much better options downfield.

This was very obvious on TV too, in the 1st quarter Dawes had the better of Lonergan until Lonergan started holding on to Dawes right arm at every contest yet he didn't get pinged for it once.

 

[loki04]

In the first half I thought there was an exceptional amount of holding going on by the Geelong backs which seemed to go unnoticed.

Was I just hallucinating?

No I noticed it too, they seem to get away with it most weeks.