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Dawn Service

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Rob R said:
We are a democracy not Russia or China so they can take it up with the RSL, local member, debate it on socia media, vote for someone who aligns with their views.
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Yes.

And important to realise that the RSL at branch, state and national level is no more capable of saying they represent to consolidated, universal view of returned service men and women, their families and the families of those departed than any single political party.

The diversity of backgrounds, education and politics of those who have served this country and its colonies going back well over a century as is diverse as the make up of the nation itself.

Any one claiming to speak on behalf of them all is speaking only for themselves. The partisan politicking of RSL leaders of the past is what has driven many veterans away from the RSL.
 
Skeptikal said:
I don't care. There is no 'fence'. The 'I don't support the booing but' excuse is nothing but a cover for polite racism. It's the latest iteration of what's been around for all my life.

How many more decades, centuries of saying nothing do you think Indigenous Australians have to endure the lack of respect for their history and culture before they are allowed to speak up and say - 'enough'?

Why is it them daring to demand respect gets people 'adversarial? Why is it that they must apologise for that response?




Take a moment to reflect that maybe your 'experience' is what blinds you from understanding the 'issue'.

I'll repost this to help you ..
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I'm well aware of cultures having their unique customs and traditions.

It's not about doing nothing. It's recognising that people don't move at the same pace as you do or I do. I know that all too well growing up in a semi rural socially conservative area where casual racism and bigotry was common place. You try scolding or insulting them and see where that gets you.

Most of them have become more progressive over time, but not from personal insults. Instead from shared experience and conversatuons. It's why the Voice to Parliament was rejected. I voted yes but even then I recognised that it had plenty of flaws that turned off lots of people that voted no. My issue is more with Albanese, Burley the others that were behind it. It wasn't going to address the core reasons why the rates of poverty among indigenous people is disproportionately high or the incarceration and crime rates similarly disproportionate.

It's why progressive movements have often failed. SSM the exception. They fail to listen to dissenting voices, especially those who aren't opposing for the sake of opposing them. It doesn't mean doing nothing or not challenging them, but approaching in good faith. If you don't care for that, that's on you, not me, Frank or whoever else.
 
schneebly111 said:
On the traditional land of his people, not specifically his.
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True. But my point was that WTC is not a friendly gesture like some people are trying to make out. Mark Brown is making a political point, a protest, that you are on his people's land. He's even getting paid to do it. Whereas, apparently if you disagree with WTC at ANZAC day services you should protest by writing a letter.
 

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Frank Bunn said:
But my point was that WTC is not a friendly gesture like some people are trying to make out.
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Nonsense. Do you not understand what welcome means?

Do you think 'Welcome to Hungary Jacks' is a political point or protest as well?
 
Frank Bunn said:
True. But my point was that WTC is not a friendly gesture like some people are trying to make out. Mark Brown is making a political point, a protest, that you are on his people's land. He's even getting paid to do it. Whereas, apparently if you disagree with WTC at ANZAC day services you should protest by writing a letter.
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So you'd agree words can matter.
 
Ghost Patrol said:
Nonsense. Do you not understand what welcome means?

Do you think 'Welcome to Hungary Jacks' is a political point or protest as well?
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You're not that naive to know that a slogan can misrepresent the true message and agenda. The War on Terror. Work Makes You Free.

We currently have the Disney version of WTC. Not all tribes had that tradition but where it was practised there was a risk of brutal death for someone who was not 'welcomed' to their lands.
 
Frank Bunn said:
You're not that naive to know that a slogan can misrepresent the true message and agenda. The War on Terror. Work Makes You Free.

We currently have the Disney version of WTC. Not all tribes had that tradition but where it was practised there was a risk of brutal death for someone who was not 'welcomed' to their lands.
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Most tribes were almost wiped out by white invaders, yeah.

But now they are being political by welcoming you?
 
Millky95 said:
3 main issues people have it with in my guess would be:

1. The name. "Why am I being welcomed to my own country when I live here?" is a common line I hear about it. When educated about country = land and that is welcoming you to this place we are gathering that tends to drop off

2. It feels like more unnecessary formalities. We have the WTC, thank you of sponsors, the anthem, introduction of VIPs etc etc and so depending on the event or occasion it feels more like fluff.

3. And the big one: a lot of people in Australia (and from what I have seen browsing other countries websites) don't like their first nations people. The dislike is generational.
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4. Some get paid over a thousand dollars to do it.
 
Millky95 said:
3 main issues people have it with in my guess would be:

1. The name. "Why am I being welcomed to my own country when I live here?" is a common line I hear about it. When educated about country = land and that is welcoming you to this place we are gathering that tends to drop off

2. It feels like more unnecessary formalities. We have the WTC, thank you of sponsors, the anthem, introduction of VIPs etc etc and so depending on the event or occasion it feels more like fluff.

3. And the big one: a lot of people in Australia (and from what I have seen browsing other countries websites) don't like their first nations people. The dislike is generational.
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It's racism. And it's sad.
Maybe we need to change the name to Welcome to Land or something just to get rid of the illogical racist logic.
 

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Surprised that in these forums nobody has mentioned the vandalism of War memorials. All we hear is WTC and booing comments. The clown that was arrested for booing made the national news with cameras and interviews at his house, why not these 2 scumbags?
Two female far-left extremists have been charged over an alleged Anzac Day vandalism spree where anti-Australian and anti-veteran slogans were spray-painted at three venues in Melbourne.
They included "kill the troops", and "death to the ADF".
 
Drought Break said:
Surprised that in these forums nobody has mentioned the vandalism of War memorials. All we hear is WTC and booing comments. The clown that was arrested for booing made the national news with cameras and interviews at his house, why not these 2 scumbags?
Two female far-left extremists have been charged over an alleged Anzac Day vandalism spree where anti-Australian and anti-veteran slogans were spray-painted at three venues in Melbourne.
They included "kill the troops", and "death to the ADF".
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Notoriously left wing news outlet channel 7, in truth these idiots severely overestimated the level of support they'd get and are now whining over the unfairness of it all.
 
Rob R said:
There is a fourth one that i have heard which again is driven by generalisations, why are we paying for a welcome to country to be delivered, we had that mentioned in our company and addressed it by saying that we will not pay for a WTC but we do as we would for a priest provide transport and food as a guest.
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I view that as a form of paying the rent for the land that our country sits on. It's not nearly to the extent that would be fair, considering how much wealth has been generated from mining and agriculture using that land, but it's a start, and in a form that is accessible to basically all companies and groups even if they can't create systemic, large-scale change.
 
"Adding dog-whistling and opportunistic weasel words, a politician who wants to lead Australia, the One Nation-spooked Angus Taylor says he understands the frustration Australians feel about overuse of Welcome to Country ceremonies"'

'Overuse?'

 

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Skeptikal said:
"Adding dog-whistling and opportunistic weasel words, a politician who wants to lead Australia, the One Nation-spooked Angus Taylor says he understands the frustration Australians feel about overuse of Welcome to Country ceremonies"'

'Overuse?'

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Exactly.

Opposition to the Welcome to Country is so damn graceless and miserly of spirit.

Imagine priding yourself on how cloddish you can be.
 

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