Injury Dawson Simpson - second back surgery

[AM]

Veedubs was right, we should have kept Blakey.

 

[vinum coupe]

Well definitely 2 if you count Menzel.

Well there are plenty that would say Hunt was not best 22 in 2009.
I said he was best 18.

But times change. We'll see how the game style changes this year.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Well there are plenty that would say Hunt was not best 22 in 2009.
I said he was best 18.

But times change. We'll see how the game style changes this year.

He was definitely best 22 last year.
We'll have to wait and see how long it takes him to recover before we can see about this year.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I think that would be about 50% dependent on how many veterans come off the list at the end of the year. Chapman, Hunt, Corey, Podsiadly and even Enright could all hang them up at the end of this year and Stokes would also be in danger of being pushed aside. If 3+ of those six choose not to play on in 2014, we may only need to delist one player, in order to be active players in the draft. If Simpson comes back in good enough condition to play AFL football in 2013 and/or West, McIntosh and Vardy (particularly the latter two) have injury problems throughout the year, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get another year.

I think it will be more than that. It's a good draft coming up (certainly better than 2012) and we may want 4 or 5 picks and we've got some good rookies like Walker and Burbury and Eardley who will be pushing hard to get on the main list. Anyone who's not in the best 22 and not able to get on the park is in a fair bit of danger as the squeeze will be on.

 

[S for September]

I spoke to Ryan Bathie last night and believe he is being groomed as KPD, he is hoping to get games as Lonergan and Taylor are rested.

Yeah i realise this, but if we are desperate for a ruckman then we would always look at Bathie, who is 198cm 100kg+, then walker who's 196cm and 90 odd kg. It's not as if Walker is being groomed as a ruckman either.

 

[you pick one]

I work part time as a Cooler at one of the Casino's,one look at David the Cats thread (They can't all be champions)will give you a clue as to why.

 

[AM]

Why would we elevate walker ahead of Bathie if we needed a ruck?

If Hamish and West don't stand-up we are in a spot of bother. Like Walker, but he's got a fair way to go. Not convinced on Bathie.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I think it will be more than that. It's a good draft coming up (certainly better than 2012) and we may want 4 or 5 picks and we've got some good rookies like Walker and Burbury and Eardley who will be pushing hard to get on the main list. Anyone who's not in the best 22 and not able to get on the park is in a fair bit of danger as the squeeze will be on.

Fair call. I think, at this stage, all our rookies besides Blicavs could reasonably think they're in the mix for a promotion at the end of the year. We need to make a decision on Walker (who'd be odds on to be promoted), Bathie and Burbury. Realistically, I think Eardley will have to bide his time.

Sheringham also has another year, but his age could be a factor. He's shown he's capable of senior football and really, if we promote him, it would basically mean cutting Bathie or Burbury (or both) loose. I don't think we'll do that, but I also think Sheringham will generate interest from rival clubs if we don't promote him.

If Bathie gets some extended time in the ruck, he could be looked at as quality big man depth in our two biggest areas of need. I wan't to see him play AFL this year and I think he deserves a chance.

Burbury's a tough one and a lot will come down to how quickly he can recover from his foot injury. If he gets a chance on our senior list, I think he can definitely fill a role we need, as a hard-at-it defensive forward. I really like how he plays.

Assuming Simpson has a similar season to what he had in 2012, depending on what Bathie shows in the VFL (and hopefully the AFL), Simpson may be cut for Bathie. Every team needs a fourth ruckman, but when you have a fourth ruckman, who is also a key defender, you get an extra spot on your list, perhaps to develop an U18 ruckman.

At this (very early) stage, I'd say the changes to the list might look like this:

Out: Podsiadly, J.Hunt, Corey (retired), Sheringham (trade/FA), (two of) Simpson/Cowan/Schroder
In: Walker, Bathie, Burbury (promotion), Three national draft picks, (I believe) three rookie draft picks

Retained: Blicavs, Eardley

 

[vinum coupe]

Veedubs was right, we should have kept Blakey.

New year, same antagonistic ammo I notice.
Nice

 

[The Casey Cat]

I don't want to be pessimistic but you'd think that's almost it for big Dawson. No clear place for him in the senior side and a recurring, serious injury just wiped out a quarter of the season.

This. It's a shame and I feel for him but I don't see him on our list next year unless he does the unthinkable and both gets back fit and manages to get into seniors and impress.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Hopefully we learned a bit for last year since we were in the same boat.

McIntosh (even if half fit), West & Vardy looks a bit better than West & Stephenson (and later in the year Walker).

Walker would now have to be elevated onto the senior list wouldn't he?

Probably, as a third year who they need to make a call on, and who has impressed thus far, this would be likely.

Just hopefully as KPF/KPD-if there's one lesson we learned last year it is that Walker has potential as a forward but is out of his depth as a ruckman, and shouldn't be used there unless we only have one fit ruckman (as we did in the second half of last year). Fortunately right now we still have three (if HMac stays healthy) so that shouldn't be needed unless things go more pear shaped.

 

[David the Cat]

I hope you're right.
But Veedubs obviously knows more about these things than I do, and he's been more than a little wary about HMc's prospects.

VD isn't known for a glass half full approach.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

VD isn't known for a glass half full approach.

Au contraire - St Kilda have been the dark horse for at least 3 seasons now!

 

[FredLeDeux]

VD isn't known for a glass half full approach.

True, from what I've seen in my short time here.
But at least he seems to think the glass is only half empty.
Some (un-named) posters seem to me to be deadset Hanrahans.
http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/obrienj/poetry/hanrahan.html

 

[cynical]

Pretty big loss to our flag hopes, even as the second choice no1.

Think he is safe for next year if he gets over his injury. We have too much depth for there not to be a lot of retirements at the end of the year. Would expect us to draft a young ruck this year regardless.

 

[Pivo]

Probably, as a third year who they need to make a call on, and who has impressed thus far, this would be likely.

Just hopefully as KPF/KPD-if there's one lesson we learned last year it is that Walker has potential as a forward but is out of his depth as a ruckman, and shouldn't be used there unless we only have one fit ruckman (as we did in the second half of last year). Fortunately right now we still have three (if HMac stays healthy) so that shouldn't be needed unless things go more pear shaped.

I think it would be out of him and Sherringham. Walker should be first cab of the rank, can play forward so acts as additional cover in the event of one of the big boys getting hurt/loses form, can possibly go back to assist if required and can pitch hit in the ruck if we lose another ruckman.

Losing Simpson isn't ideal though, especially with concerns around McIntosh.

And I'd much rather see Vardy as a lead up forward but looks like we'll need him to ruck more this year.

 

[JUBJUB]

At this (very early) stage, I'd say the changes to the list might look like this:

Out: Podsiadly, J.Hunt, Corey (retired), Sheringham (trade/FA), (two of) Simpson/Cowan/Schroder
In: Walker, Bathie, Burbury (promotion), Three national draft picks, (I believe) three rookie draft picks

Retained: Blicavs, Eardley

The new season hasn't even started and you've got the knife out

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

The new season hasn't even started and you've got the knife out

Not really. Just a bit of a guess at how our list will look after some anticipated ins and outs post-2013. Dawson Simpson, Josh Cowan and Jordan Schroder are playing for their AFL futures in 2013. James Podsiadly, Joel Corey and Josh Hunt are nearing retirement age. The club is going to find it very hard to keep Jackson Sheringham. I don't think any of those things should be a newsflash to anyone.

 

[thejester]

It's a discussion for another thread but I'd be staggered if Bathie got elevated at the end of this season. Other than that I reckon that list looks pretty spot on MC, although in a crunch I suspect they'd go for Schroder over Burbury.

 

[footscore]

The new season hasn't even started and you've got the knife out

yeh and anyone talking down to his beloved Jonathan Simpkin better watch out!

 

[FromDawn2Dark]

He would have to go on the LTI as I can't see him playing until at least June now. It's not career ending just yet IMO but it's definitely in the balance. Hopefully when he does come back he doesn't have a recurrence of the injury like he did last year. He needs some continuity so he can get some form and match fitness to truly show what he can or can't do.

I'm not sure it's a certainty we would draft a ruckman at years end, even if we delisted Simpson. I noticed when the article about Ottens AIS coaching on the club website some time ago, he seemed to think there was only a couple ruck candidates in this year's draft but said there was about 6 for the following year. If that's right we might take a risk in either paying overs in drafting a ruck or miss out altogether this year. Would seem to be better odds for the following year's draft. Perhaps a trade or FA is a better way to go. Also makes me wonder if Otto is keeping Wells up to date on possible draftees from the AIS?

I have a bit more faith in Vardy helping out in the ruck as his hips have been corrected by the surgery. Plus if there was any lingering issues with his hips what's to stop a stray knee colliding into him when taking a pack mark playing as a forward? It's about time we have a bit of luck with our ruck stocks so hopefully Vards and H-Mac have turned the corner.

 

[Scottland2007]

He would have to go on the LTI as I can't see him playing until at least June now. It's not career ending just yet IMO but it's definitely in the balance. Hopefully when he does come back he doesn't have a recurrence of the injury like he did last year. He needs some continuity so he can get some form and match fitness to truly show what he can or can't do.

I'm not sure it's a certainty we would draft a ruckman at years end, even if we delisted Simpson. I noticed when the article about Ottens AIS coaching on the club website some time ago, he seemed to think there was only a couple ruck candidates in this year's draft but said there was about 6 for the following year. If that's right we might take a risk in either paying overs in drafting a ruck or miss out altogether this year. Would seem to be better odds for the following year's draft. Perhaps a trade or FA is a better way to go. Also makes me wonder if Otto is keeping Wells up to date on possible draftees from the AIS?

I have a bit more faith in Vardy helping out in the ruck as his hips have been corrected by the surgery. Plus if there was any lingering issues with his hips what's to stop a stray knee colliding into him when taking a pack mark playing as a forward? It's about time we have a bit of luck with our ruck stocks so hopefully Vards and H-Mac have turned the corner.

So, years of sustained success, and now we have Ottens giving us the inside scoop on future ruckmen. It's good to follow the greatest team of all!

 

[Partridge]

I have a bit more faith in Vardy helping out in the ruck as his hips have been corrected by the surgery. Plus if there was any lingering issues with his hips what's to stop a stray knee colliding into him when taking a pack mark playing as a forward? It's about time we have a bit of luck with our ruck stocks so hopefully Vards and H-Mac have turned the corner.

I've got a lot of faith in Vardy in the ruck, to me he looks more a natural ruckman than forward (I realise I'm the only person on the planet who thinks this). Said it earlier, a combination of West and Vardy as ruckmen is not appalling. Both are young, both have still got a lot of improvement in them, both are superb athletes, and both can kick goals up forward. If that's the situation we find ourselves in it could be a lot worse.

Also, as more of our youngsters get senior game time we could slide too - there's no guarantee we'll be top 4 or even top 8 in 2013 - but it could mean we're stronger in 2014 and 2015.

 

[meto]

I've got a lot of faith in Vardy in the ruck, to me he looks more a natural ruckman than forward (I realise I'm the only person on the planet who thinks this). Said it earlier, a combination of West and Vardy as ruckmen is not appalling. Both are young, both have still got a lot of improvement in them, both are superb athletes, and both can kick goals up forward. If that's the situation we find ourselves in it could be a lot worse.

Also, as more of our youngsters get senior game time we could slide too - there's no guarantee we'll be top 4 or even top 8 in 2013 - but it could mean we're stronger in 2014 and 2015.

Now why would he look more a ruckman than a natural forward??

Has played B all football as a forward,......played a game up there before the season finished an looked bloody awesome,.....so I don't quite get your negativity.

 

[Partridge]

Now why would he look more a ruckman than a natural forward??

Has played B all football as a forward,......played a game up there before the season finished an looked bloody awesome,.....so I don't quite get your negativity.

Negativity? Jesus that first paragraph looks pretty bloody positive to me.

It's a realistic appraisal of what happens when you blood a lot of young players, as we've been doing and continue to do. We might be better this year - hopefully we will - but being aware that it may take time for the young guys to become seasoned consistent performers is not a treasonable offence.

Back to Vardy, it's my opinion. He's got a beautiful leap and unlike a lot of other ruckmen, he actually times it well and is good at winning hitouts. He's the same height as West, perfect height for a ruckman. Not to mention how well he covers the ground, he would give the opposition some very big headaches as very few ruckmen could hope to keep up with him. There again, having a young player who shows some ability as both a key forward and a ruckman should be a good thing. Apparently here it's negative. Interesting.