Opinion Dawson Simpson

[AM]

I'm not sure Vardy is a lock in the 22 just yet.
It may have been 2nd up Blues but he was nothing to get excited about against GWS and the reality is he hasn't played a lot of Footy in the 1's and will be like any other young KPF - inconsistent for a period.
Pods showed he's defenitely not ready for the pension - easy to forget how much of an animal and contested mark he is , not too shabby at putting it through the sticks either.
On topic it would be great to get games into DS and HMac so we can assess the best ruck combo for September.
I'm a huge Ballrooom fan as #2 ruck / utility but I rate West a better option going forward at this stage and rate him a very good #2 ruck ( average #1 ruck). Choice between them as #2 ruck will come down to what the MC values most from their attributes.

Agree with a lot of what you say and as I said in the opening para of my post we're speculating a long way out.

Certainly it wasn't a good day for most of our talls (apart from Pods), Vards being one of them and his injury is always going to be problematic. However in the best of all possible worlds Vards not only offers a better marking option forward than West, he provides more agility. I know there are people here who rate Wests marking. For mine he doesn't take enough to be potent.

My comment is just taking a line through that of the coach re Blitz in that he consistently has him in our best 22. As I see it his only spot as we speak is as a mobile ruckman. If his improvement continues as the season progresses he may even become more effective in the aerial contests too. So I see him as the number 2 ruck choice.

I've never believed West was a number one ruckman in which case it comes down to a choice between HMac and Dawson, unless they go with Vards, which I trust they won't.

Long way to go not only injury wise but form wise too.

I just hope the coach sticks to his mantra that moving Hawk from the forward half is non negotiable.

 

[MarkCatsFan]

So how close is he to fitness/getting a game?

I haven't seen anywhere enough of him since I rarely watch the VFL and his injuries have kept him out of the AFL for so long. I want to actually finally get a good look at him this year hopefully. He's a huge unit and from the limited glimpses of him I've had I don't see why he can't come good as an AFL ruckman if he gets a good run with injuries, which from history is a pretty big if.

 

[AM]

Can't see Vardy Blitz and HMac in the same side unless Pods is chopped - and that is a way off yet.

If all our talls are fit and firing I just can't see Vardy getting in on balance - cant believe I just said that and, yes, a long way to go but would be a nice problem to have.

Hmm! Depends on team balance and the opposition. However, Vards is a very agile tall who knows where to run and can take a strong grab. Accurate kick too. I wouldn't at all mind HMac and Blitz running off the bench and Vards staying in the forward half doing the ruck work there.

 

[footscore]

So how close is he to fitness/getting a game?

I haven't seen anywhere enough of him since I rarely watch the VFL and his injuries have kept him out of the AFL for so long. I want to actually finally get a good look at him this year hopefully. He's a huge unit and from the limited glimpses of him I've had I don't see why he can't come good as an AFL ruckman if he gets a good run with injuries, which from history is a pretty big if.

Sounds like he could be in serious contention for our next game against Brisbane.
Leuenberger will not be back for another 2-3 weeks, young Longer will be their ruck and he's hasn't looked very impressive at all.
He'd be giving up about 6cm in height as well as 12-14kg's so it could very well be a good match to bring Simpson in.

Gabba is a pretty small ground too, roughly similar in dimensions to the SCG which would be a little less running needed as opposed to the MCG.

 

[supahoops]

Hmm! Depends on team balance and the opposition. However, Vards is a very agile tall who knows where to run and can take a strong grab. Accurate kick too. I wouldn't at all mind HMac and Blitz running off the bench and Vards staying in the forward half doing the ruck work there.

Not downplaying Vardy's talent at all, just think we won't go into games top-heavy if we can help it.

Two that can ruck are plenty, time ( and form injuries team-balance opposition ) will tell in the end.

 

[ATSAM]

Trent West may not be tall enough for a key ruck position but he is far better around the ground than Dawson Simpson, makes more contests, takes more marks and can kick a goal. DS did little of that in yesterdays VFL game.

 

[The Casey Cat]

I think in a final you could potentially play three "rucks" as long as Blitz and Vardy are two of them:

- HMac/Vardy/Blitz
- Simpson/Vardy/Blitz
- West/Vardy/Blitz

But I wouldn't like to see two of HMac, Simpson and West plus either Blitz or Vardy. That's when I think the lack of a runner starts to bite.

To be honest, I think Blitz's best work has been when he hasn't been rucking.

And we would lose that final. If (and this is a very BIG if) HMac gets into and maintains a spot in the spot alongside Blicavs then unless Pods or Hawk is injured Vardy (along with West and Simpson) does not play. Don't care how talented they may be or how much of a sob story their injury hit career has been we can not go in to any more games (least of all a final) too big.

 

[AM]

Not downplaying Vardy's talent at all, just think we won't go into games top-heavy if we can help it.

Two that can ruck are plenty, time ( and form injuries team-balance opposition ) will tell in the end.

Think you're underestimating Vards agility. He's quite quick for a big guy and is good below the knees. If you were to run the two ruckman off the bench you'd still be well catered for balance wise. Depends on match-ups, form at al so we're all crystall ball gazing at this time of year anyway.

The Match Committee hasn't got a lot wrong this year. I'm confident they will get the mix right when it really counts.

 

[catempire]

And we would lose that final. If (and this is a very BIG if) HMac gets into and maintains a spot in the spot alongside Blicavs then unless Pods or Hawk is injured Vardy (along with West and Simpson) does not play. Don't care how talented they may be or how much of a sob story their injury hit career has been we can not go in to any more games (least of all a final) too big.

Agree with the bolded bit. Disagree with what equates to "too big".

 

[footscore]

And we would lose that final. If (and this is a very BIG if) HMac gets into and maintains a spot in the spot alongside Blicavs then unless Pods or Hawk is injured Vardy (along with West and Simpson) does not play. Don't care how talented they may be or how much of a sob story their injury hit career has been we can not go in to any more games (least of all a final) too big.

I guess this is why Blicavs is seriously changing our minds as he does not play as a tall exclusively.

Going back a few years, our main side consisted of talls - Blake, Ottens, Lonergan, Harley, Mackie, Mooney, Scarlett & Taylor.
This year, it has been - West, Blicavs, Taylor, Lonergan, Mackie, Hawkins, Podsiadly & Rivers.

I think Rivers is a lock down back when he returns as he helps release Mackie & Corey (who's not a defender).

 

[supahoops]

^ which is why Blitz seems to be in everyone's best. Almost. Amazing story to date.

 

[footscore]

^ which is why Blitz seems to be in everyone's best. Almost. Amazing story to date.

he's doesn't give away crucial frees either, truly is amazing.
Before round 1, I said it would take him at least 2 years to learn the simple fundamentals
There were a few who saw this coming before he even played a game (they saw him as a potential winger) and they sure nailed that one.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

We're speculating a long way out of course. However, judging by the comments by the coach, Blitz will be in the 22. Can't see him playing anywhere other than in a mobile ruck role (at this point in his career) so that leaves one ruck position. Which you would think would be HMac if they get him right with Vards operating in the forward half and perhaps giving a hand in the ruck.

We still need more improvement at the clearances, which means proper rucks.

Fortunately Blitz is not locked into a ruck spot or nothing, he could play as say a wingman, which I expect he will do, alongside 2 rucks.

Hamish will have one spot IF fit, Dawson can't play the no2 role, which means West is only missing out if Vardy can ruck. I'm skeptical that he can (in terms of his body holding up) but the next few weeks will tell the tale.

 

[footscore]

We still need more improvement at the clearances, which means proper rucks.

even when we had Ottens, we were pretty average when it came to clearances so it's obviously more than just rucks.

 

[Partridge]

Yep, VFL you mean.
Blicavs will be #2 in seniors, with West, or HMC, or Simpson, depending on availability/fitness.
But I get the serious impression Blic has gone past Westy.

Since Scott has said that he's going to be hard to dislodge from the 22, it's rapidly morphed into unassailable fact. Not sure it's as clear as that. The easy conclusion to draw is that West is a better tap ruckman, but Blicavs is better around the ground. Due to his freakish running capacity he gets to more contests, so gets more touches.

Only problem is West still averages more possessions a game. He kicks just as many goals (5 to 4 this year), but importantly gets 10 hitouts a game more. I wouldn't underestimate either the difference in experience - even 50 odd games to 10 is enormous and no doubt the club is aware of it. They won't want a repeat of Mumford slamming into a brick wall late in the season.

I'm starting to think they'll rotate 2 out of 3 players - Simpson, West and Blicavs - as the season wears on. I'm not sure what they'll do with Vardy, or if they'll play him solely as a ruckman. Pretty sure they'll all get games and all get breaks as the year wears on. They'll definitely want both West and Blicavs fully fit when the finals start. Whether the both play is another matter, but they'll need at least one of them at all times.

 

[Partridge]

I'm not sure Vardy is a lock in the 22 just yet.
It may have been 2nd up Blues but he was nothing to get excited about against GWS and the reality is he hasn't played a lot of Footy in the 1's and will be like any other young KPF - inconsistent for a period.
Pods showed he's defenitely not ready for the pension - easy to forget how much of an animal and contested mark he is , not too shabby at putting it through the sticks either.
On topic it would be great to get games into DS and HMac so we can assess the best ruck combo for September.
I'm a huge Ballrooom fan as #2 ruck / utility but I rate West a better option going forward at this stage and rate him a very good #2 ruck ( average #1 ruck). Choice between them as #2 ruck will come down to what the MC values most from their attributes.

Pods has been one of our unsung heroes this year. He's played as a key forward, on occasion a key defender, helped out in the backline a lot, given Hawkins tons of space up forward, and still managed (with Motlop) to kick more goals than anyone has this year for us except Hawkins.

He's been tremendous.

 

[Partridge]

I think in a final you could potentially play three "rucks" as long as Blitz and Vardy are two of them:

- HMac/Vardy/Blitz
- Simpson/Vardy/Blitz
- West/Vardy/Blitz

But I wouldn't like to see two of HMac, Simpson and West plus either Blitz or Vardy. That's when I think the lack of a runner starts to bite.

To be honest, I think Blitz's best work has been when he hasn't been rucking.

I don't. We've just seen two weeks in a row what impact having an extra big man makes. It isn't good. Neither are experienced enough at senior level to overcome the lack of run we'd have. Be a horrible risk in a final too.

 

[Vdubs]

Pods has been one of our unsung heroes this year. He's played as a key forward, on occasion a key defender, helped out in the backline a lot, given Hawkins tons of space up forward, and still managed (with Motlop) to kick more goals than anyone has this year for us except Hawkins.

He's been tremendous.

He had a fantastic preseason, and lookseasily good enough to be on our list again next year, which will make things interesting

 

[Partridge]

Think you're underestimating Vards agility. He's quite quick for a big guy and is good below the knees. If you were to run the two ruckman off the bench you'd still be well catered for balance wise. Depends on match-ups, form at al so we're all crystall ball gazing at this time of year anyway.

The Match Committee hasn't got a lot wrong this year. I'm confident they will get the mix right when it really counts.

They got the balance horribly wrong in Round 2 v North by playing an extra big man. We looked far better when Brown was subbed out and Stokes came on. Especially as the roof was open and it rained. The exact same mistake was made again versus Gold Coast. Too tall, wet conditions (early), and a lack of one runner for that reason. Brown again subbed out, Christensen came on, and mysteriously we looked better. Last week against GWS, add the names Vardy and Duncan and repeat with the same outcome.

Overall I agree, they've got most of the selections right. Mostly. But they've been far from perfect with selecting team balance. Especially when conditions have been wet.

 

[Vdubs]

They got the balance horribly wrong in Round 2 v North by playing an extra big man. We looked far better when Brown was subbed out and Stokes came on. Especially as the roof was open and it rained. The exact same mistake was made again versus Gold Coast. Too tall, wet conditions (early), and a lack of one runner for that reason. Brown again subbed out, Christensen came on, and mysteriously we looked better. Last week against GWS, add the names Vardy and Duncan and repeat with the same outcome.

Overall I agree, they've got most of the selections right. Mostly. But they've been far from perfect with selecting team balance. Especially when conditions have been wet.

BEFORE the GC game, given the conditions, it was widely discussed that we already had one too many talls.
Wonder why we didn't put Stringer in pre game. It was bemusing.

 

[Partridge]

Certainly it wasn't a good day for most of our talls (apart from Pods), Vards being one of them and his injury is always going to be problematic. However in the best of all possible worlds Vards not only offers a better marking option forward than West, he provides more agility. I know there are people here who rate Wests marking. For mine he doesn't take enough to be potent.

It could be better. But he still takes more than Vardy does.

If you're saying as a key forward, no argument, Vardy every time. But how likely is that with Pods and Hawkins both certain selections? And as a ruckman, West has the runs on the board. I wouldn't discount either the difference the extra 40 games that West has under his belt. You go through our list and the same pattern repeats among the youngers - the better players are the more experienced. You see Christensen and Motlop are just that bit better than Smedts or Horlin-Smith. Mostly due to experience. Look at Duncan and he's better again. Another 20 games' experience. It's a very important factor.

If you asked who has more natural ability or who will be the better player most will say Vardy. Fair enough. But if you asked today who is a better footballer at senior level - especially in the ruck - it's still West for the time being. That's the tricky part the selectors have to get right. Especially with a finals campaign to plan for.

 

[Partridge]

BEFORE the GC game, given the conditions, it was widely discussed that we already had one too many talls.
Wonder why we didn't put Stringer in pre game. It was bemusing.

Yep. You need the key forwards and key defenders, and with the sub rule at least one mobile ruckman. Plus one lumbering ruckman at most. But otherwise, the game isn't just based on run, it is run. The less runners you have the harder it is to win. Just the way it is now.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Yep. You need the key forwards and key defenders, and with the sub rule at least one mobile ruckman. Plus one lumbering ruckman at most. But otherwise, the game isn't just based on run, it is run. The less runners you have the harder it is to win. Just the way it is now.

The last 2 weeks CS has made a point of saying in his pressers that "we" think the Sub system works best for us when we sub a tall off and a runner on (when asked about subbing Brown and Vardy off).
Make of that what you will.

 

[Partridge]

The last 2 weeks CS has made a point of saying in his pressers that "we" think the Sub system works best for us when we sub a tall off and a runner on (when asked about subbing Brown and Vardy off).
Make of that what you will.

Did he say that? I thought he said after the North game and the Gold Coast game they made the mistake going in too tall on both occasions and Brown was the unlucky player (on both occasions). Interesting if that's how they're now looking at it. Massive increase in run as the opposition tires, so perhaps a positive there.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Did he say that? I thought he said after the North game and the Gold Coast game they made the mistake going in too tall on both occasions and Brown was the unlucky player (on both occasions). Interesting if that's how they're now looking at it. Massive increase in run as the opposition tires, so perhaps a positive there.

Yeah, he said it after GC/GWS.
It sounds alright if the extra tall is productive before he goes off, but not otherwise - which is, I assume, the point you've been making about the extra tall.