Completely missed what the deal is with Beams this year - is it one of those mysterious ‘mental health’ type situations that involves not being at the club at all while you sort yourself out?
He’s finished yeah?
He’s finished yeah?
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Dayne Beams payout - Inside or outside the cap?
- Thread starter GoEaglesGoSGIO
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BEEG
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- Aug 2, 2007
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Not mysterious go have a read of the Beams thread on the Pies board.
It’s 93 pages long and full of Collingwood supporters.
Any chance for a basic gist of what his situation is?..
BEEG
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Nope
If a player's contract states that a preexisting condition prevents a player from continuing to play the game, then the contract must specify if that player will be paid out or not. It then comes down to the 2 parties. The club needs to be aware that they have risks taking on such a player and these may include salary cap issues if he cannot continue with his career but wants a payout. It is thus up to the club to convince the player that if this happens, he will not be paid out and the player has to understand if they want to play for that club, they must accept these terms. However, if the club is just so desperate to gain the player's signature that they are willing to take the risks of them never being rehabilitated or relapsing with their condition, then it must also face the prospects of the player's payout being included in their salary cap.
Pretty straight forward.
Pretty straight forward.
- Jul 13, 2015
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Every player would retire due to injury.
Like mentioned above, that's specifically for players signed as free agents, which like above decreases the risk of manipulation. I agree there are plenty of grey areas, some I suspect we don't get made aware of as the public. In Beams' case, as his current contract wasn't signed as a free agent from another club, his contract isn't held to that rule.
In my opinion, it makes sense that whatever payout he receives from Collingwood for terminating his contract comes out of the salary cap. Same with any other player.
Yea... except an independent doctor needs to decide that, using scans and medical evidence...so... that doesn't work... at all..
- Jul 13, 2015
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All players have injuries. Where do you draw the line ?
A medical expert can probably tell the difference between a chronic spinal injury and a 4 week hamstring injury...
- Jul 13, 2015
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And mental health ?
Independent psychologists? They are qualified enough to determine when killers can be allowed back on the streets, I'm sure they can work out when people are faking severe depression and anxiety...
- Apr 24, 2013
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Keep fighting the good fight on an internet forum, mate, but the reality is that if the club thought it could get around paying him in the cap, it would. You've been given plenty of good reasons why these types of payments need to remain in the salary cap, you just don't want to accept them.
And it doesn't matter anyway. We've shat the bed with this deal and now we need to lay in it - for another two years.
Who says the club can't pay him outside the cap? When was that decided?
Plenty of good reasons like what? Why do they do it in other sports then and no one complains? In fact I'm pretty sure they do it in the AFL too..
- May 5, 2006
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The NBA has a stretch provision. Joakim Noah gets $6m a year from New York each of the next two years instead of them having to pay him $18m this year. If the AFL had that, Collingwood could pay Beams $1m over the next 3 or 4 years instead of the next 2.
Agree that rules need to be there or clubs would just take advantage of things. Jon Patton, Joe Daniher, Nic Naitanui... there are plenty of players running around with track records of serious injuries who have been on good contracts. We always have money we can't use on players or coaching staff. If we could push the envelope why not throw a 2 or 3 year deal at an older free agent and then just pay them outside the cap and claim injury if it doesn't pan out?
For the 5th time, BECAUSE YOU NEED AN INDEPEDANT MEDICAL EXPERT TO VERIFY IF THE INJURY IS LEGIT
Wizard
Brownlow Medallist
The NFL system is so far skewed to the clubs and away from the owners its not funny, the lack of guarantees is appalling.
Legit or not, this was a pre-existing medical problem which your club was aware of and still went ahead with signing him on. I cannot see how this can be excluded as it really was "buyer beware". Just the same as taking someone on with a dud knee and he can't play out his contract because of his dud knee. As I posted above, it will come down to specifics in his contract in what happens.
Hollow Knight
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It has to stay in cap or it is ripe for exploitation in ways that “INDEPENDENT MEDICAL EXPERTS” can not solve.
If Brisbane offers Joe Daniher 5 years and his groin utterly fails in 2 years, we have to suck it up and wear the remainder of the contract.
It’s called risk/reward for a reason. You want the latter, be prepared to accept the former.
If Brisbane offers Joe Daniher 5 years and his groin utterly fails in 2 years, we have to suck it up and wear the remainder of the contract.
It’s called risk/reward for a reason. You want the latter, be prepared to accept the former.
- Mar 19, 2020
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Dont get this. They still have to pay him his money you realise. Including it in the cap is a secondary punishment to actually paying the person
Hollow Knight
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Because you open up incredibly easy ways for clubs to cheat the cap and free agency situation otherwise.
Hey Kappa, save your breath, You are never going to find an unbiased opinion on bigfooty. Pies fans start at outside the cap, opposition fans start at inside the cap... why would they not? It is something that disadvantages Collingwood so in turn helps their clubs.
I believe any payment has to be inside the cap but also that there should be a negotiation between the club and Dayne to sort out a payout figure as there has been previously with players such as Dane Swan with us when he suffered a career-ending knee injury.
My understanding is that Dayne Beams won't go down this path, and I think Collingwood would like to look at some sort of breach of his contract as he is not even attempting to return to playing. Collingwood must tread carefully here because mental health is a seriously fraught subject and he should be treated with respect.
What I would question, Ancient Tiger, is when it was decided by the BigFooty brains trust with such certainty that ''this was a pre-existing medical problem which your club was aware of''.
I don't think it was known at the time how serious his depression was... in fact, he was well enough to do the 2019 pre-season and then play some very good games early that season. Clearly his issues became a lot worse than they were at the time he rejoined Collingwood?
- Mar 19, 2020
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It is the opposite.
We were told Tom Boyds full salary was not given as they agreed a lesser payout, whose to say Bulldogs didn’t give him 2 mill then give him a job at Bobs Baristas as a coffee beans purchaser and pay him a 250k yearply salary for 4 years to make up for the rest
I do think the salary needs to be included in the cap but I do think it should be stretched out over as many years as they want
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