Dear West Coast,

[ziad]

You guys just havent heard we are in a heavy training period

 

[Monocle]

Everyone keeps mentioning Pyke. Its not like he would have had a secret play book last year he would have collaberated with the others so his knowledge would become ours. An assistant coach doesn't cause that much of a drop off.

Also if you read the Adelaide board some of them are questioning his coaching yesterday with the same things people day about Simpson.

But maybe Pyke was a harsher and more demanding task master and kept his players more accountable and didn't let them get away with serving up mediocrity and insipid performances . Our midfield sucks it's neither balanced or feared because it's so one dimensional.

I do get the loyal assistant coaches line that Simpson went when he got to the Club but I do think as a collective our assistants are a bit " meh " and that we need the addition of a well respected midfield coach that our player will listen to.

 

[EagleShore]

TL; DR - THERE'S A RANGE OF FACTORS contributing to our relatively disappointing output in 2016. Most importantly seems to be the skill set of our best 22, the lack of expected improvement in individuals, and the lack of spirit and leadership while adjusting to the different structures. There is less HUNT.

Yep, something's awry with West Coast this year as compared to 2015 and the latter part of 2014. On the surface, we've just had our fifth win in a row and we might sound like spoilt brats in this thread complaining about what we've seen from the Eagles this year. I guess the point is, firstly statistics such as winning or losing never tell the full story, and secondly, we just want to understand what has gone on instead of simply yelling at our spineless bunch of campaigners who seem to have been shitting on the beautiful wings this year

We could try to analyse it in a systematic manner. From my perspective, it's combined effect of a number of factors, some of which for us supporters are known while others remain unknown. Then there's the known unknowns and the unknowns unknowns...er, anyway I'll give it a shot:

• Non-WCE factors

1. The quality of the competition has improved since 2015 (most exemplified by Adelaide, GWS, Geelong and arguably the Bulldogs)
2. The 2016 draw is relatively more difficult than 2015 (tougher opponents away, possibly more six-day breaks, though I haven't counted them yet)

• WCE factors

1. The coaching personnel has changed - most notable of which is the loss of Pyke
2. The coaching strategies and onfield structures have changed - I'm still wrapping my head around this one as for us supporters, there are many unknowns here
3. The best 22 has changed with an extra KPD available, while the midfield make-up has shifted significantly with Sheed's injury and the addition of Redden and Jetta - more knowns for us here, and certainly this point is the umbrella for most of our discussions on this board, you know, the relative merits and demerits of each player
4. The quality of performance by many individuals within the team is down - JK, Shuey, Lycett, Gov, Barrass, and Sheppard almost stand alone as players who have at least maintained if not improved upon their 2015 form, while the expected improvement in players such as Yeo and Duggan hasn't eventuated
5. The harmonic flow of individuals that make a team function well seems to have been lost, particularly around the ball and in attack, and though defensive structures have changed, I feel they're playing relatively well if not quite as cohesive as last year - of particular note here is that the player positioning through the midfield is less organised than it seemed to be last year...there is less HUNT
6. There seems to be a lack of spirit in the team, that nebulous concept that you can't always see but you can certainly feel - included here is strength of leadership...effecting change out on the ground when it is needed most
7. To round it out, I'll include a final point covering everything else that is unknown by us - too much speculation involved to really enable a relevant analysis, but there could be social or cultural issues that have not been disclosed by the club

For me, though the non-WCE factors have contributed to what we've witnessed, with our age structure, they should be nullified by the expected improvement in players as their experience increases, and what should be an improvement in the team as a unit after another preseason under Simpson. We haven't improved as expected, and thus we see a widening gap between us and most of the other top 8 teams.


I feel that, of the West Coast factors, points 3, 4, 5 & 6 are the most relevant.

A critical mass of our best 22 is not skillful enough to function well in a contested situation at ground level. We have seen Hutchings and Redden play in the same team as Priddis, Masten, and Gaff, all of whom have weaknesses as well as being down on their 2015 form. We have Jetta who has not hit his straps as yet. Though we have excellent key position talent that compete well around the ground (Naita, Gov, JK, Barrass now, Darling at times), it's on the deck that we have a significant dearth of talent. It's becoming horribly predictable that when the ball hits the ground, the opposition will get first effective hands on it. I'm not looking at statistics here, because they don't tell the full story. Apparently we're the best team in terms of scoring from stoppages as well as restricting the opposition from scoring from stoppages. Naitanui obviously has a lot to do with this, but as far as effectively clearing a non-stoppage ground ball, we're s**t.

The effective positioning of players around the contest has diminished this year. In our games this season, I cannot recall seeing a clean chain of hands in congestion such as what we regularly saw last year. This team output would be expected to improve (much the way the Bulldogs have improved in this respect - fast clean hands out of congestion) and it has been lost.

The players don't seem to be "playing for each other" as much as they did last year. There seems to be a lack of camaraderie and spirit, characterised by the lack of a hard edge, that aggressive at-the-ball fight that you see good leaders demonstrate in big games and big moments. As Keys said in his OP, we're playing timid football. I believe we're also playing reactive footy on the ball, which is basically accepting defeat before you get the ball, and then being too slow or unskilled to apply pressure to the opponent.


In conclusion, there's less HUNT this year. This term encompasses everything that was great about last year, and everything that has been s**t this year.

 

[WCErevival]

But maybe Pyke was a harsher and more demanding task master and kept his players more accountable and didn't let them get away with serving up mediocrity and insipid performances . Our midfield sucks it's neither balanced or feared because it's so one dimensional.

I do get the loyal assistant coaches line that Simpson went when he got to the Club but I do think as a collective our assistants are a bit " meh " and that we need the addition of a well respected midfield coach that our player will listen to.

I'd say our midfield sucks because of the personnel. We have Shuey, Priddis who is in the twilight of his career and then a black hole. We cant expect to match other teams with only 2 guys regularly putting in. With Naitanui out it looks even worse.

 

[larrikin]

Thats like saying a guy got laid 5 days in a row with chicks who were terrible in bed. It's great that he got laid, but not good quality.

Still got laid

 

[Matera LeNui]

Agree with most thoughts in this thread. I still think the number 1 problem is mental. Adam Simpson has proven he can win us games of football in a team orientated style. We may be missing a couple of A Graders but it's an obstacle we can overcome. Watching passages of play from last year proves its a mental thing. Players seem reluctant to back themselves in. Can't help thinking we would be better placed this year if we never played that GF early.

 

[frenchconnection]

But maybe Pyke was a harsher and more demanding task master and kept his players more accountable and didn't let them get away with serving up mediocrity and insipid performances . Our midfield sucks it's neither balanced or feared because it's so one dimensional.

I do get the loyal assistant coaches line that Simpson went when he got to the Club but I do think as a collective our assistants are a bit " meh " and that we need the addition of a well respected midfield coach that our player will listen to.

The thing is though Pyke has a good football brain - had it when he played also. Sometimes when you take one link out if a cog though it becomes unbalanced and bearing in mind they did not replace Pyke's position per se as it was offloaded as an extra task to Coxy.

 

[frenchconnection]

Agree with most thoughts in this thread. I still think the number 1 problem is mental. Adam Simpson has proven he can win us games of football in a team orientated style. We may be missing a couple of A Graders but it's an obstacle we can overcome. Watching passages of play from last year proves its a mental thing. Players seem reluctant to back themselves in. Can't help thinking we would be better placed this year if we never played that GF early.

Think you could be right here. They need to start believing in themselves and not be so hesitant. Noticed it with Hurn yesterday which made him so fumbly - it was like he was frightened of making a mistake. The mind is a very powerful thing and when it's out of whack - well the result as in football you end up playing like ****.

 

[frenchconnection]

I'd say our midfield sucks because of the personnel. We have Shuey, Priddis who is in the twilight of his career and then a black hole. We cant expect to match other teams with only 2 guys regularly putting in. With Naitanui out it looks even worse.

The thing is though apart from Sheed not being there all this season, and now Nic, what has changed from last year to this re personnel.

 

[bunkyboy]

You guys just event heard we are in a heavy training period

If that is true, why does Simpson often say lately "that we will have a light week on the track"?

 

[Matera LeNui]

Think you could be right here. They need to start believing in themselves and not be so hesitant. Noticed it with Hurn yesterday which made him so fumbly - it was like he was frightened of making a mistake. The mind is a very powerful thing and when it's out of whack - well the result as in football you end up playing like ****.

If I was Simpson I would get the sharpie out and write on the foreheads of all our players "I'm a hesitant footballer". Rub it off when they change. Guarantee it'll work haha!

Thing is I can remember some times our style proving costly in some passages last year especially from the backline. It didn't seem to phase anyone though. A turnover/error would be made and we would reset and still play instinctively the next time. Eventually we would get in a rhythm and play some great footy. This year we seem to get more and more nervous and its robbing us.

 

[frenchconnection]

I hate to rub salt into the wound but our injury run this year has been unusually good. On field performance might turn around next season but injury luck with probably fall away at least a little.

Then, before you know it, our grand final appearance was 2 seasons ago and our stars are aging. Somehow you feel that this is lost on our players.

Capre diem, mothergooses.

Please translate - is caper diem Latin and what does it mean. Just guessing does it mean toughen up. Just curious so I will know next time. Never did Latin at school.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

The concept of the hunt going missing is interesting. We've seen examples from the past few years, Port being the most obvious, of a team that has has a dream run and smashed their way deep into the finals only to fall away in the following years. Going from the hunter to the hunted is a major shift, both mentally and tactically, and it clearly has affected us deeply. The loss of Pyke has been magnified by the apparent strength of the Crows, especially after losing Dangerfield, but it will be interesting to see if they manage to avoid the fall away in quality that we have suffered this year.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Please translate - is caper diem Latin and what does it mean. Just guessing does it mean toughen up. Just curious so I will know next time. Never did Latin at school.

Carpe diem - seize the day.

 

[WCErevival]

The thing is though apart from Sheed not being there all this season, and now Nic, what has changed from last year to this re personnel.

Not a great deal apart from Rosa and Scooter who weren't that great anyway. I think last year we played to our absolute potential apart from GF day. Priddis and Gaff have dropped off. Sheed is out injured. Other teams have surpassed us in talent if they hadn't already. Sydney, Bulldogs, Geelong and GWS have all improved in the middle. Hawks already had our measure. Even teams below us have bolstered their midfields like we saw from the Dees yesterday.

 

[EagleShore]

The thing is though apart from Sheed not being there all this season, and now Nic, what has changed from last year to this re personnel.

Redden and Hutchings often playing alongside Priddis. Critical mass of weaknesses - ie. they don't complement each other as well as Sheed did with Shuey and Priddis.

Also, LeCras hasn't been as good in the midfield as he was last year ("spitter" role), nor have Gaff or Masten played as well as they did in 2015.

Structures and positioning are different and seemingly less effective.

Basically the observed diminution of effective output by the midfield this year is a function of the changes to personnel per se, form of the players, balance of talent, and the structures/game plan.

 

[1986]

Still got laid

5 X

 

[Natho]

We want oranges. Only getting lemons.

 

[squashface]

Time to Hunt, goddammit.

I knew we should have recruited Taylor Hunt

 

[Tom_Thumb]

You guys just havent heard we are in a heavy training period

This ! we should by all rights get the benefits in the last 1/4 of the season, I say we are sitting pretty..no one even suspects we could do it this year and remember 1991. All those old enough will see big similarities.

 

[WereFlyingHigh4]

Simply don't have the midfield in my opinion. We rely on too much from too few and we've seriously lost some depth through there. At the moment were getting by on on our elite defence and forward line but we just don't win the ball in the midfield enough with substance. Yesterday Melbourne would run the ball from the stoppages in waves lots of the time which gives them solid clearances that lead to chances for scores. A lot of the time our clearances would be a scrappy kick out of congestion that offers us no attacking threat whatsoever. This is a trend throughout the year and while those go down as clearances for us on the stats sheet, they aren't actually contributing to anything except the ball coming right back over the mids' head.

Shuey, Pridda and Gaff are the only 3 consistently performing through there. We have far too many passengers in the midfield and it's a joke. Yeo needs a spell in the WAFL, his constant mediocrity when the going gets tough epitomises how we play at the moment. Duggan, Nelson, Masten, Hutchings are just some of the other passengers we have had running through the middle this year. Yes, Duggan and Nelson are young but they're still major passengers a lot of the time and have been brought in off average WAFL form which confuses me completely. That being said we need to develop Duggo, Nelson and Sheed in the hope they can become consistent contributors or at best A grade mids who can push us towards a flag before JK's time is up.

Basically our very slim hopes of a flag this year rest on the shoulders of Nic Nat and our fringe midfielders stepping up. If we can get at least another 2 mids finding form and becoming consistent contributors then that will go a long way to giving opportunity to the talent we have in our forward line. Nic Nat also needs to get back into his early year form to give us the extra advantage out of the middle.

Also..our defence is awesome at the moment and deserves some real credit. Gov and Barrass makes for a ripping combo for the future!

 

[Eastern Rangers]

5 wins in a row.

Just saying

North Melbourne says hi.

 

[whatis]

One thing I also noticed is that it's not just Pyke to Adelaide, it's also Sinclair to Sydney, Selwood to Geelong, and to a lesser extent Bolton to Carlton (Hawks had us worked out already, or eventually anyway).

Coincidence maybe, but those are all top teams this year or in Carlton's case, a team that is heading in the right direction now at least. Doesn't explain the Melbourne game I guess, but I would say that our game plan is well and truly out there by now and it must be hard when every other team knows so much about what you're trying to do all of a sudden. Just couple that along with the expected natural progression of the other teams, their pre-season head start, and in cases like Geelong, an easy draw earned off the back of two years worth of mini-rebuild / tanking, you can kind of see why we are where we are (and really where we are ladder-wise isn't so bad really).

My main issue this season so far though, has not been the coaching as much as it has been the attitude of most of our players and just their general all round pussiness. At the moment I'm of the opinion that the majority of them can just can gagf.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

What has changed since last year .

Inside contest -
●Shuey is having his best year
●Priddis is pretty much the same , blind kicking more since nic has gone
● Natanui was poor for the six weeks leading up to his surgery . No silver service from lycett
● Lycett battling admirably but best position is fwd/ruck
● Our third centre bounce man has been poor - yeo , hutch and redden . All are not outside players and we struggle when ball is loose
● Sheed made that 3rd mid spot his own last year and had a great dynamic with shu, nic and Pridda . missing him

Outside - IMO this is where we are getting flogged
● We have lost our hunt !
● We don't hunt the loose ball
● We don't support our players getting the loose ball
● We don't hunt the opposition players who have the ball
● We don't hunt the mark and force a player to go back and kick over it

We would almost always outnumber our opponent on ground balls last year now we are getting swarmed . Work rate and desire to compete is lacking big time .

Defense -
● Defending has improved since the start of the year .
● our rebound is getting worse
● trying to hit up the hardest targets , just keep possession FF

Forwards -
● Have been pretty good at converting from limited i50s .

summary - we have lost our hunt !
playing too many inside mids and guys who can't find/win the ball on the outside .

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

Please translate - is caper diem Latin and what does it mean. Just guessing does it mean toughen up. Just curious so I will know next time. Never did Latin at school.

You don't need to have studied Latin to know. You just need some bogan friends who like tattoos. It means seize the day.