Debate: Are speeding fines revenue raising?

[sydney_hawka]

So I'll put the question out to others here. What is the greater deterent to them in relation to speeding. The fine, the demerit points, the fact that it's unsafe or something else?

The deterent for me is eventual "loss of license".

What I object to is getting done for a couple of k's over the limit on a busy road where you cant be watching your speedo all the time, and not knowingly speeding. Motorists are best served keeping their eyes on the road ahead, not their speedo. Points should only apply to offences for speeds in excess of 10kmh over the limit.

Speeding fines via "Speed Cameras" are most definitely revenue raising, expecially when the motorist doesn't even know they've been nabbed. Police should be the only ones issuing Fines.

 

[Gold Member]

So I'll put the question out to others here. What is the greater deterent to them in relation to speeding. The fine, the demerit points, the fact that it's unsafe or something else?

The fine. Definitely.

Haven't had any points for probably 4 or 5 years, remember kids that you actually accumulate demerit points not lose them. Even got a discount on my license renewal!

 

[Gold Member]

Here's something that really gives me the shits.

The TAC wipe off 5 ad involving the pedestrian.



Now this ad get air time ad-nauseam during family viewing timeslots and the message between the lines that the TAC is feeding our children and young adults is quite disturbing: "If you are a pedestrian, no matter what you do it will always be the drivers fault."

Not once does that stupid young lady even contemplate looking before she crosses the road, does not even break stride just straight into the path of 7900 kilojoules of kinetic energy in the form of sheet steel cast iron and toughened glass.

And one more thing.... How many vehicles are actually travelling at 60kph when their speedos are reading 60kph? I have 3 current model vehicles and at 60 indicated they are travelling at 56kph, 55kph & 53kph respectively. So how about we all add 5kph to actually travel at the speed we are allowed to!

 

[grizzlym]

Now this ad get air time ad-nauseam during family viewing timeslots and the message between the lines that the TAC is feeding our children and young adults is quite disturbing: "If you are a pedestrian, no matter what you do it will always be the drivers fault."

That's not the message at all. Rather, 'Speed, even if you think it's only a few Kms over can affect your ability to stop in time. and even a few KMs over can make a huge difference.' It's not about who's legally at fault, it's about the damage you can cause to someone, even if they stupidly run out onto a road, when you drive a car.

 

[Gold Member]

Grizz I wrote the message >between< the lines.

The advertised message would be the same with a child chasing a ball but they chose to use a twentysomething who should know better.

 

[grizzlym]

Grizz I wrote the message >between< the lines.

The advertised message would be the same with a child chasing a ball but they chose to use a twentysomething who should know better.

I realise that. Still don't think that's a message or a take-out of the ad. They chose the twenty20 something, I dare say, because the kid/ball casting is a cliche as old as the hills. Moreover, by making it as 'someone who should know better', it actually says, well to me at least, 'crazy s**t happens on the road, even from people who should know better... this shouldn't happen but it does, so make sure your speed is in check'.

 

[TAITA]

I realise that. Still don't think that's a message or a take-out of the ad. They chose the twenty20 something, I dare say, because the kid/ball casting is a cliche as old as the hills. Moreover, by making it as 'someone who should know better', it actually says, well to me at least, 'crazy s**t happens on the road, even from people who should know better... this shouldn't happen but it does, so make sure your speed is in check'.

I actually think the message should make sure you have got your mind on the job - not the music, your phone, your GPS, your kids, your mates, wondering what the speed limit is on that stretch, et al - reaction time or lack thereof is the real killer.

Quoting a generic speed/stopping distance as the message, although appealing to the lowest common denominator, is clearly a falsehood - not all cars are the same, not all braking systems are the same, not all tyres are the same and the way drivers react is clearly not the same.

 

[Gold Member]

I actually think the message should make sure you have got your mind on the job - not the music, your phone, your GPS, your kids, your mates, wondering what the speed limit is on that stretch, et al - reaction time or lack thereof is the real killer.

Quoting a generic speed/stopping distance as the message, although appealing to the lowest common denominator, is clearly a falsehood - not all cars are the same, not all braking systems are the same, not all tyres are the same and the way drivers react is clearly not the same.

Ironically the TAC pre-occupation with speed (which is the easiest box to tick) has turned the average drivers attention away from having a 360 degree awareness to being tunnel visioned drones with one eye on the speedo and the other firmly affixed to the 20m directly in-front of your bonnet. The nett result of this brainwashing is a school of unaware and insular drivers who travel below the limit in the right hand lane causing more traffic flow issues, anxiety and rage than should be normal for commuting.

Now the police have started a blitz against right lane hogs as a reaction to the TAC propaganda machine.

 

[Henry Jr]

The fine. Definitely.

Haven't had any points for probably 4 or 5 years, remember kids that you actually accumulate demerit points not lose them. Even got a discount on my license renewal!

Any points you accrue GM, expire after 3 years.

 

[Gold Member]

TAC piece de resistance.

40kpm school zones.

Driving along.
Notice 40 zome.
Ferk! Wot's the time?
Looks at clock.
Looks at speedo.
Looks at sign 800 - 930.
Looks at clock.
Wonders if clock is accurate.
Hits kid.


Nothing wrong with the concept, just the implementation was completely ass about.

At least now they all have electronic signage which eliminates the ambiguous 10 point checklist that takes the drivers attention for far too much time.

 

[Gold Member]

Any points you accrue GM, expire after 3 years.

Or course, must have had a clean record for near on 8 years....

 

[grizzlym]

I actually think the message should make sure you have got your mind on the job - not the music, your phone, your GPS, your kids, your mates, wondering what the speed limit is on that stretch, et al - reaction time or lack thereof is the real killer.

Quoting a generic speed/stopping distance as the message, although appealing to the lowest common denominator, is clearly a falsehood - not all cars are the same, not all braking systems are the same, not all tyres are the same and the way drivers react is clearly not the same.

Yeah, I think it's just a general awareness style message, unfortunately when they deal in specifics, they tend to flavout the whole message.

Now, phone use is one of my WTFs. Research shows that using handfrees are as bad as holding a phone -it's about the loss of concentration/focus you have no actually holding a phone - why is it allowed? Moreover, why aren't the penalties for using a mobile device much, much steeper?

 

[grizzlym]

And I pulled up alongside a woman at the lights who had some sort of dog sitting on her lap as she drove. Just amazing.

 

[TAITA]

Yeah, I think it's just a general awareness style message, unfortunately when they deal in specifics, they tend to flavout the whole message.

Now, phone use is one of my WTFs. Research shows that using handfrees are as bad as holding a phone -it's about the loss of concentration/focus you have no actually holding a phone - why is it allowed? Moreover, why aren't the penalties for using a mobile device much, much steeper?

I agree totally - get out on any freeflowing free/highway and you can pick them from miles away - ol' Speedy Gonzales zips past you and tucks in front, no worries, as long as he's not in my space - sure enough two minutes later his speed will drop by 4-9kmph so you out and about him and then 5 minutes later he rounds you up again and goes sailing off into the distance.

I encounter this 4 times on average each time I travel to Melbourne each way - anyone who tries to tell you it does not affect concentration is talking through their hat.

Penalties should be the same as drink/drug driving in my opinion.

 

[Henry Jr]

Now this ad get air time ad-nauseam during family viewing timeslots and the message between the lines that the TAC is feeding our children and young adults is quite disturbing: "If you are a pedestrian, no matter what you do it will always be the drivers fault."

Not once does that stupid young lady even contemplate looking before she crosses the road, does not even break stride just straight into the path of 7900 kilojoules of kinetic energy in the form of sheet steel cast iron and toughened glass.

Again, if the Gov/Police were serious about the road toll, start fining people for jay-walking. Not just a one day blitz.

Its pretty hard to get hit walking on a footpath or crossing at the lights. Roads are for cars, footpaths are for people. Keep them separate and you will cut the toll down bigtime.

I doubt we will see an ad for people to look before crossing the road. Easier just to roll out the propaganda instead...

 

[grizzlym]

I agree totally - get out on any freeflowing free/highway and you can pick them from miles away - ol' Speedy Gonzales zips past you and tucks in front, no worries, as long as he's not in my space - sure enough two minutes later his speed will drop by 4-9kmph so you out and about him and then 5 minutes later he rounds you up again and goes sailing off into the distance.

I encounter this 4 times on average each time I travel to Melbourne each way - anyone who tries to tell you it does not affect concentration is talking through their hat.

Penalties should be the same as drink/drug driving in my opinion.

There was a landmark British study done on it recently - not sure if it's been released publicly yet - that clearly establishes the severe impairment that talking on a phone (hand-frees or held) has on a driver. Off memory, it rates the impairment as the same as driving drunk - not sure how drunk though.

 

[Henry Jr]

Yeah, I think it's just a general awareness style message, unfortunately when they deal in specifics, they tend to flavout the whole message.

Now, phone use is one of my WTFs. Research shows that using handfrees are as bad as holding a phone -it's about the loss of concentration/focus you have no actually holding a phone - why is it allowed? Moreover, why aren't the penalties for using a mobile device much, much steeper?

I'd ban ALL form of mobile usage (both bluetooth and holding). Make it a 6pt and $1500 job.

 

[grizzlym]

How exactly is that ad propaganda?

 

[Henry Jr]

How exactly is that ad propaganda?

I wasn't referring to 'that ad', moreso just the Speed Kills theme in general.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Yep - get your P's and you get a 2L FWD non-turbo.

Get to 25 and your still alive, then you can choose what you drive. Until then, it needs to be governed.

Yep - restrict people to driving a Toyota Echo with a boot full of deadweight until they're 25.

 

[Langford4FBOTC]

I'm coming into this a bit late, but have been away for a few weeks.

Just spent a bit of time in and around Perth. I was warned prior to going there by my brother in-law, who lived there for 10 years, that they are hot on the speed cameras and they are more clandestine with their placement than over east. Anyway, it was noticeable that drivers stuck to the speed limit over there compared to Melbourne. Call it what you like, but from my observations, they work in slowing drivers down. Puts any revenue argument to bed in my mind, as did Haddo's poignant post on the dangers of excessive speed.

I think there are arguments for an increased limit on roads where the safety infrastructure is In place, but I think there needs to be a dramatic shift in Australian driver etiquette before that becomes an option.

As for limits in built up areas, it's just plain culpable driving to exceed them