Debate: Are speeding fines revenue raising?

[Henry Jr]

Back on the topic GH... I don't have any issues

Why doesn't the government make advanced driving courses mandatory?

How much of the 'revenue' is put back into teaching people better driving skills?

 

[TAITA]

Back on the topic GH... I don't have any issues

Why doesn't the government make advanced driving courses mandatory?

How much of the 'revenue' is put back into teaching people better driving skills?

This is where the problem lies HJ - if I said to you I am going to give a young, impressionable adult at the height of his/her lifetime high risking taking point, and I'm going to give that young adult a gun.

I'm not going to train them how to use it or anything, no, no, no, no - I'll get someone else who may or may not know much about guns to supervise them for 120 hours.

Then if they pass a simple little test they can carry that gun by themselves and I expect they will use appropiately.

If they don't however, I will teach them how to use it by taking their money away from them - it's foolproof!


Talk about shutting the gate after the horse has well and truly bolted - it actually makes me very angry that so many lives have been lost due to government lunacy.

 

[hawk65]

Back on the topic GH... I don't have any issues

Why doesn't the government make advanced driving courses mandatory?

How much of the 'revenue' is put back into teaching people better driving skills?

Very good point Henry. I've said for a long time all p platters MUSt do an advanced drivers course prior to getting their licence. guess there's no money in that for the govt huh ;-)

 

[grizzlym]

It's insane that the onus of training the drivers is back on the parents and log books too. As part of your driving test in Germany you have to demonstrate that you can drive in all conditions, at night, different roads. Not here. Buzz around the back streets of Oakleigh and you're done.

 

[Off The Couch]

Very good point Henry. I've said for a long time all p platters MUSt do an advanced drivers course prior to getting their licence. guess there's no money in that for the govt huh ;-)

I recently paid for my "L" now red "P" daughter to do a two hour driving course on the freeway - it involved merging, driving comfortably at 100 and 'feeling' the difference at that speed, pulling back on to the freeway safely - best money I've spent to date on teaching her to drive. Took the onus off us parents and gave her confidence to drive comfortably on the freeway. Next step is country road driving (including gravel and loose sand) and she is keen for it so that she can take her rav camping. My eldest daughter did an advance driving course through her workplace Western Power and she says it's saved her life a couple of times.

 

[Henry Jr]

It's insane that the onus of training the drivers is back on the parents and log books too. As part of your driving test in Germany you have to demonstrate that you can drive in all conditions, at night, different roads. Not here. Buzz around the back streets of Oakleigh and you're done.

Yep.

I often have to drive to Warnambool (inlaws live down there) and there are several single lane sections of the road. When do young drivers get taught (by a person, book or video) how to overtake a car/truck and how much space is needed between you and the oncoming car?

Its a disgrace.

 

[Henry Jr]

So do you speed Henry or do you obey the speed limits because its too dangerous to exceed them?

Sorry mate. Missed your post thru all the excitement

I drive to the conditions.

Have I copped speeding fines in the past - yep. Even lost my license for speeding at one stage.

My other problem with the system is this.

Why does a person that travels the average distance per year (around 15k) get the same amount of demerit points as someone that travels double, triple the distance per year? Surely it should be proportional?

 

[Henry Jr]

So what if it's revenue raising. Take the fines away and you leave a big whole in the states budget. How do they fill that whole, tax increases, rates increases, higher stamp duties, etc etc, yes I know these are not necessarily state revenue, but the money would have to come from somewhere. If those things increase, I pretty much have to pay them. I don't have to pay speeding fines if I don't speed. I'm more than happy to have fools who cant locate the brake pedal keep pouring money into the state coffers. I'll admit that the camera at the bottom of the hill in the 60 zone is a bit rough. I don't drive slow like a Sunday grandpa with a hat on, but I drive within the limits. Two speeding fines in 16 years,both 100 in an 80 on a highway, both deserved,but bugger all contribution to the government coffers from me.

I understand that at the end of the day, it takes X amount of dollars to run the state.

So why should only motorists contribute to the revenue needed, rather than the people that catch public transport for example?

 

[grizzlym]

Yep.

I often have to drive to Warnambool (inlaws live down there) and there are several single lane sections of the road. When do young drivers get taught (by a person, book or video) how to overtake a car/truck and how much space is needed between you and the oncoming car?

Its a disgrace.

Simple answer is that they don't. And, yes, it's a disgrace that they aren't tested on their abilities in different conditions. I knew a driving instructor (actually mine when I went to get a few lessons on a manual) who said he thought it was stupid they tested people's abilities to park a car, and could fail their test based on not doing it well, when they didn;t test them on their ability to handle a car at speed. Or on a freeway. Or at night. He was of the opinion that parking was very much a supplementary skill that anyone could pick up at any point.

I just got back from a trip to Mildura - we drove up there in quite a powerful rental car - 5 hours on the road. Straight, boring, single-lane road. Not many towns. Very easy to speed (just get it over with), but also some challenging bits of the road too. Can easily see why so many people have died on that road.

 

[Henry Jr]

Whats more dangerous on a long trip... speeding or fatigue?

If I speed when I goto Warnambool, I can knock 45 mins off the trip... That's 45mins less time on the road with some bloke asleep coming the other way.

I'll back my driving skills over the bloke thats asleep.

 

[grizzlym]

That's the comment I posted earlier from the TAC guy about 'too much empty space to drive through'. Australian conditions are very challenging (and different) to many others in the world due to the distance, emptiness and relatively crap roads for the cars we drive. Hence all the 'drowsiness' communications out there.

 

[go hawks!!!]

Sounds like its now a constructive discussion.

I got flashed doing 54 in a 50 zone the other day....that will frustrate me when I see the fine.

 

[Henry Jr]

Sounds like its now a constructive discussion.

I got flashed doing 54 in a 50 zone the other day....that will frustrate me when I see the fine.

You loved it GH!

 

[play2win]

holy shite that is just wrong!

 

[Spanish Sahara]

I just got back from a trip to Mildura - we drove up there in quite a powerful rental car - 5 hours on the road. Straight, boring, single-lane road. Not many towns. Very easy to speed (just get it over with), but also some challenging bits of the road too. Can easily see why so many people have died on that road.

I am off on Tuesday up to Orroroo, not looking forward to the drive at all, especially with the 7am depature time.

I was up there last week also with my Masters supervisor, he did all the driving, he was absolutely knackered after the first days driving

 

[Henry Jr]

holy shite that is just wrong!

Which part?

 

[sydney_hawka]

Given Buddy's little incident, interested to get people's views on whether or not Speeding Fines are indeed revenue raising or actually save lives.

Like you said in another thread Henry, speeding fines only ever deter those that cannot afford to pay them. If they're serious about speeding, then suspend drivers quicker by taking more points off them, and more visual Police presence, not revenue raising "Speed Cameras".

 

[sydney_hawka]

In modern cars it wouldn't be too hard to apply speed limiters, GPS tracking and instant SMS speeding fines with direct debit.
Public transport would be the big winner and no more need to build more freeways.

Speed Limiters are a ridiculous idea. Try passing a slow car on a two way Highway with a SL on. Too dangerous IMO.

 

[Mighty P]

I thought it's pretty obvious that traffic fines (including speeding) are revenue raising, do you really think the government can afford to lose millions of dollars a year?

 

[floki]

It's simple Henry, speeding is a voluntary decision on the drivers part to contribute to the states coffers, you choose to exceed the speed limits you've only got yourself to blame when you're called upon to contribute.


As an emergency service vol' over the years i've pretty much seen everything the dead, the dying, the injured and the lucky. From vehicular decapitation to one where the bloke simply died within a minute of telling us he's ok and unhurt, he unbuckled his seatbelt and passed away, picked up amputated hands, fingers and feet* bits get flung all over the place and it's a horrible thing to do and have to deal with the consequences of crashes. If the risk of a speeding fine prevents one crash and resulting misery i've got no problem with it.

The mantra live fast, die young, leave a beautiful corpse is a lie.


here endeth the rant




(*tip for the summer travelers don't stick your feet out the window on the way to the beach)

 

[TAITA]

I thought it's pretty obvious that traffic fines (including speeding) are revenue raising, do you really think the government can afford to lose millions of dollars a year?

I'm pretty sure that the revenue generated would pale in comparison to the cost of collisions to the economy - pretty sure I've been fed that at sometime - so I can't for the life of me understand why there is no impetus there for a political party to bite the bullet and say "okay - let's just write off the current generation, we'll still enforce but admit we can't re-educate - however, every kid who starts school tomorrow will have exposure to motor vehicles and car control from the very first year (DECA in Shepparton had some good programs going when I was a kid). As a part of that, every child will also be taught CPR & First Aid as a part of the curriculum."

You won't totally stop collisions (there is no such thing as an 'accident') but you will go along way towards reducing them - this 'head in the sand' with universal 'one size fits all' laws isn't working.

 

[Off The Couch]

(*tip for the summer travelers don't stick your feet out the window on the way to the beach)

My brother lost the tops of his fingers when the car he was a passenger in rolled and he was doing the old fashioned elbow resting on the window frame with fingers wrapped around the strip on top of the car. The other thing I found interesting was that the advanced driver trainer that took my daughter also told her never to drive with her window down a few millimetres - apparently it works like a guillotine in an accident. Have to say I haven't done it since.

 

[Mighty P]

I'm pretty sure that the revenue generated would pale in comparison to the cost of collisions to the economy - pretty sure I've been fed that at sometime - so I can't for the life of me understand why there is no impetus there for a political party to bite the bullet and say "okay - let's just write off the current generation, we'll still enforce but admit we can't re-educate - however, every kid who starts school tomorrow will have exposure to motor vehicles and car control from the very first year (DECA in Shepparton had some good programs going when I was a kid). As a part of that, every child will also be taught CPR & First Aid as a part of the curriculum."

You won't totally stop collisions (there is no such thing as an 'accident') but you will go along way towards reducing them - this 'head in the sand' with universal 'one size fits all' laws isn't working.

True.

I also believe it should be mandatory for teens/learners to undergo special driving courses, specifically ones that deal with driving in wet and other dangerous conditions, just like they do in Finland (and other Scandinavian countries). Hell, I even know of adults with years of driving under their belts that are fearful of driving in the wet. Education and practical education is the key.

 

[sydney_hawka]

I'm pretty sure that the revenue generated would pale in comparison to the cost of collisions to the economy - pretty sure I've been fed that at sometime - so I can't for the life of me understand why there is no impetus there for a political party to bite the bullet and say "okay - let's just write off the current generation, we'll still enforce but admit we can't re-educate - however, every kid who starts school tomorrow will have exposure to motor vehicles and car control from the very first year (DECA in Shepparton had some good programs going when I was a kid). As a part of that, every child will also be taught CPR & First Aid as a part of the curriculum."

You won't totally stop collisions (there is no such thing as an 'accident') but you will go along way towards reducing them - this 'head in the sand' with universal 'one size fits all' laws isn't working.

Agree Taita!!! Make it compulsory for Learners to partake in a Defensive Driving course before they're granted a License.

When they do pass the Test, make it MANDATORY to only drive Vehicles that have all the latest "Safety Features". Too often kids are given control of extremely powerful Vehicles that don't have the necessary controls (Traction Control, Vehicle Stability Control & Airbags). At least take a bit of the risk off the table.

My two bobs worth!!!

 

[TAITA]

True.

I also believe it should be mandatory for teens/learners to undergo special driving courses, specifically ones that deal with driving in wet and other dangerous conditions, just like they do in Finland (and other Scandinavian countries). Hell, I even know of adults with years of driving under their belts that are fearful of driving in the wet. Education and practical education is the key.

Yep, absolutely - probably should have phrased my post a bit better in that I'd like to see 'all of life' education and advanced driving courses and learning of car craft is integral to that.