Debate: Are speeding fines revenue raising?

[go hawks!!!]

Driving home 3 car pile up on the monash.... How bloody how

 

[Henry Jr]

Agree Taita!!! Make it compulsory for Learners to partake in a Defensive Driving course before they're granted a License.

When they do pass the Test, make it MANDATORY to only drive Vehicles that have all the latest "Safety Features". Too often kids are given control of extremely powerful Vehicles that don't have the necessary controls (Traction Control, Vehicle Stability Control & Airbags). At least take a bit of the risk off the table.

My two bobs worth!!!

Yep - get your P's and you get a 2L FWD non-turbo.

Get to 25 and your still alive, then you can choose what you drive. Until then, it needs to be governed.

 

[Henry Jr]

Driving home 3 car pile up on the monash.... How bloody how

Anyone thats driven on the Monash in peak hour knows that speed WASN'T a factor!

 

[go hawks!!!]

I just got back from a trip to Mildura - we drove up there in quite a powerful rental car - 5 hours on the road. Straight, boring, single-lane road. Not many towns. Very easy to speed (just get it over with), but also some challenging bits of the road too. Can easily see why so many people have died on that road.

I do alot of boring long distance driving on highways, this may be melbourne to perth or melbourne to canberra, same rule applies, set your cruise control to the speed limit and relax, plan your trip carefully and no need to speed, whether your in a datsun or Buddy's Mercedes. I cannot fathom deaths on a straight road, I just cannot.

For the WA posters, remember the highway from Albany to Perth, there was 60 odd crosses on that road that my missus counted, sad....so sad.

Night driving: in the outback you encounter animals like Roos or Wombats, there is an extra degree of care and you drive accordingly.

Any death on the road is one too many.

 

[play2win]

Which part?

You know what I was referring to, it was funny but ........

 

[halfback dasher]

Sorry im late , did i miss anything ....???

 

[grizzlym]

I do alot of boring long distance driving on highways, this may be melbourne to perth or melbourne to canberra, same rule applies, set your cruise control to the speed limit and relax, plan your trip carefully and no need to speed, whether your in a datsun or Buddy's Mercedes. I cannot fathom deaths on a straight road, I just cannot.

For the WA posters, remember the highway from Albany to Perth, there was 60 odd crosses on that road that my missus counted, sad....so sad.

Night driving: in the outback you encounter animals like Roos or Wombats, there is an extra degree of care and you drive accordingly.

Any death on the road is one too many.

Agreed. On my recent trip I was sharing with two other guys - one constantly sat on 140 the other around 130. Did the whole centre line thing on straight roads. It's funny, there was a degree of inferred pressure that I would do the same. I didn't but it does show how peer pressure or expectations can play on other people.

 

[TAITA]

Agreed. On my recent trip I was sharing with two other guys - one constantly sat on 140 the other around 130. Did the whole centre line thing on straight roads. It's funny, there was a degree of inferred pressure that I would do the same. I didn't but it does show how peer pressure or expectations can play on other people.

I don't consider 130 particularly fast, infact it is nothing when I am driving my properly maintained vehicle myself in conditions that I am experienced in (which is most).

However, in your position Grizz, I would be totally of the opposite tack in that I do not know the quality of the driver and their reaction should something happen - quite simply I would be extremely nervous and would make it known so - given they felt the need to drive down the middle of the lane I'd say my nervousness would have some justification.

 

[grizzlym]

I have no doubt about your car or your ability to pilot it, but the thing I wonder is how that driving affects/pressures/influences other drivers.I know being on the Autobahns in Germany you can be rattling along at some insane speed, and some guy just zooms past you and you think nothing of it.

As an interestinf counterpoint, I do some work with a bloke who manages V8 supercar drivers. He was in the Grand Prix game for a bit and, consequently, drove a lot in England. He's made the observation to me that the English 'road code' or etiquette was so much better than Australia. That they were more considerate and better trained drivers on the whole.

 

[Henry Jr]

Until you drive overseas, you don't realize how bad the education to drive here really is.

America is a joy to drive in compared to here.

What you driving these days Taita?

 

[TAITA]

I have no doubt about your car or your ability to pilot it, but the thing I wonder is how that driving affects/pressures/influences other drivers.I know being on the Autobahns in Germany you can be rattling along at some insane speed, and some guy just zooms past you and you think nothing of it.

As an interestinf counterpoint, I do some work with a bloke who manages V8 supercar drivers. He was in the Grand Prix game for a bit and, consequently, drove a lot in England. He's made the observation to me that the English 'road code' or etiquette was so much better than Australia. That they were more considerate and better trained drivers on the whole.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly - and once again it get's back to our lack of proper training, combined with a lot of laconic attitude to vehicles and not actually having to really earn your licence in the first place - it truly is a 'right' rather than a 'privledge'.

If people had to work harder to earn it, understood what they were piloting and it's limitations, and occasionally realised the gravity and implications of taking a lethal weapon out every single time they got in the car - you'd hardly see a collision. Road rage would cease to exist. People would look out for the other bloke - hell, even courtesy could become catching (actually, still a bit of it about).

But we are so blase...........

If we all thought as we jumped in the steer "I better be careful out there today because I want to come home to my family tonight" everytime we got in the car - things could change.

 

[TAITA]

Until you drive overseas, you don't realize how bad the education to drive here really is.

America is a joy to drive in compared to here.

What you driving these days Taita?

Still the X5 mate, although I am brokenhearted at the moment - had a blowout coming home the Saturday night after the Carlton game at Macedon.

A very long story involving the RACV covering itself in s**t - again, however the end result is my smarmy 22" Vesalt Rouges 285/35s have been replaced by 17" ridgey didge BMW rims with something called a Goodyear Wrangler 65 series due to having them sitting in the shed.

No man should ever lose five (5) inches - it's devastating for the ego.

Now I have to wear these bloody awful tyres out real quick before I can replace two of the 22's (according to the boss).

Wonder what Buddy's up to this week.......

 

[Henry Jr]

Goodyear Wrangler 65 series = pot luck!

 

[TAITA]

Goodyear Wrangler 65 series = pot luck!

Indeed - pothole luck even, the thing that blows me out is they are uni-directionals - WTF? - I don't understand the point?

 

[Henry Jr]

Indeed - pothole luck even, the thing that blows me out is they are uni-directionals - WTF? - I don't understand the point?

Handy for reverse parking

 

[TAITA]

Handy for reverse parking

Yeah, nah we don't do that in the country mate, it's a bit like golf and it's various sticks - they give you 5 or 6 forward gears - it's just a matter of working out the right one to get the little ball in the little hole.

 

[Woodside Hawk]

Coming to this debate late, sorry, but to address the OP:

Are speeding fines revenue raising? Yes.

Does this make them bad or ineffective? No.

Would doubling the demerit points work better? Maybe, but I reckon increasing the fines fourfold, or linking them proportionally to income would work about as well. Maybe do both, why not? It's about saving lives, right?

I think Henry is being mischievous here. In one breath he says speed isn't a significant factor in accidents, using spurious arguments like accidents where the driver was under the speed limit being deemed speed-related (what if the driver approached a hairpin corner with a recommended speed of 35km/hr in an 80km/hr zone at 80km/hr? Happens a lot in the Adelaide Hills), in the next he's claiming driver education in Australia is a disgrace.

Well, if drivers are poorly trained then surely it stands to reason that speed limits need to be enforced to protect us useless drivers from ourselves.

To the impetus for this thread - I cannot imagine a circumstance where doing 90km/hr in a 50 km/hr zone would be justified. Buddy has lost his license and had to pay a fine. I don't see anything wrong with that, except that the financial penalty should be much larger for someone with Buddy's income.

I suspect Henry's true gripe is with speed cameras on relatively safe roads, but he hasn't expressed it particularly well if that is the case.

 

[bards]

How often do you hear about 18yo losing their license in the first 12 months? To often, idiots. Tell you what I'd do? Hit em where it hurts. Take their license for longer. If they have enough offences to lose their license in the first 12 months, don't suspend it, cancell it. They can re-apply for a learners after 12 months, then spend 2 years learning. Then they can take another driving tet. 3 Years without a license, that's a huge deterrent. Lose it again, 5 years. Kids would pull their heads in, and those that don't will be off or roads.

 

[Messenger]

Given Buddy's little incident, interested to get people's views on whether or not Speeding Fines are indeed revenue raising or actually save lives.

For a large percentage of the population the fine stings more than the points. If that is any disincentive for doing 90km in a 50km zone, I'll live with it.

Best way to avoid speed cameras is don't speed. Just saying.

 

[Henry Jr]

I think Henry is being mischievous here. In one breath he says speed isn't a significant factor in accidents, using spurious arguments like accidents where the driver was under the speed limit being deemed speed-related (what if the driver approached a hairpin corner with a recommended speed of 35km/hr in an 80km/hr zone at 80km/hr? Happens a lot in the Adelaide Hills), in the next he's claiming driver education in Australia is a disgrace.

Would have thought most people would approach the corner at 80kph. Taking the corner at 80kph is another thing.

So your happy with the driver education in this country are you? Wow, Come drive in Melbourne for a week mate.

Well, if drivers are poorly trained then surely it stands to reason that speed limits need to be enforced to protect us useless drivers from ourselves.

So after having a crack in the previously for poorly trained drivers, you now jumping on the gravy train and agreeing with me. Interesting. So then, why not fix the problem of educating/teaching people to drive better, rather than washing ones hands of the problem? The Gov doesn't even have to spend a cent. Just force people to pay for Advanced Driving Courses out of their pockets as they already do with driving instructors.

I suspect Henry's true gripe is with speed cameras on relatively safe roads, but he hasn't expressed it particularly well if that is the case.

Agreed. When you have 4 lane freeways between Melb and Geelong, and the limit is 100kph (the same it was 40 years ago), makes a bit of a joke of it all.

Better driver training makes safer roads for everyone.

 

[Woodside Hawk]

Henry - I never called you a liar. That was certainly not my intention and I apologise if you took it that way.

I meant that your argument relied on points that were misleading in the context of the argument (ie - speed not being a factor in accidents when travelling under the speed limit - clearly speed can be a factor, as I attempted to illustrate).

I definitely agree with you that driver education in this country leaves a lot to be desired. Where I disagree is that the government should pay for this, which was how I had taken your previous points about how governments don't invest speeding fine revenue in driver education etc. Perhaps they should legislate for further driver education, but they should not be required to pay for it - it now seems we agree on this!

I also disagree that fines are not a disincentive. Demerit points are certainly a good disincentive, but as I posted previously, if we are serious about reducing the road toll then I believe the financial penalties should be proportionate to Income. Make the fine hurt no matter how much you earn.

Bards and others have pointed out that the "revenue raising" side of this amounts to a purely voluntary tax. It is generally not too difficult to avoid speeding fines if you wish to.

In the end, Speeding fines are only one small part of the solution, but they are probably the easiest to manipulate, require very little effort (compared to driver education programs and road improvement) and have a clear upside for governments. It certainly appears in their current form they are not an effective enough deterrent for the cashed up and over confident driver (like Buddy, for example). I firmly believe they serve a purpose for most of us though.

 

[hawk65]

So I'll put the question out to others here. What is the greater deterent to them in relation to speeding. The fine, the demerit points, the fact that it's unsafe or something else?

 

[go hawks!!!]

Henry - I never called you a liar. That was certainly not my intention and I apologise if you took it that way.

WH, long time no see brother.

Never...ever apologize to the king antagonist. Stand your ground, he is a pipsqueak.

 

[Henry Jr]

WH, long time no see brother.

Never...ever apologize to the king antagonist. Stand your ground, he is a pipsqueak.

Thats alright GH. Everyone makes mistakes. We all accept that.

I have removed my comments to reflect WH's apology. Nice to know that some people do that right thing at times

 

[Off The Couch]

So I'll put the question out to others here. What is the greater deterent to them in relation to speeding. The fine, the demerit points, the fact that it's unsafe or something else?

The demerit points