Debt and Deficit - Coalition Budget Emergency

[kwikfix]

That's the problem with the mindset - it's either "lock everyone up" or "open the borders for everyone" as the options presented.

What about other ideas?

Burnside has two that are worthy of discussion that both present as far, far cheaper options (worth discussing as this is the budget emergency thread):



http://www.julianburnside.com.au/an-alternative-to-offshore-detention/

Of cause this would in no way encourage the people smugglers now would it.

It was this attitude that kicked off the last wave of boat people and only Tony Abbott had the solution, Australia owes this great man a great deal of respect.

 

[Maggie5]

one is about your heart and the other is about "those damn foreigners taking me jobs again" right?

Another example of an idiot reply.
You have NFI!

 

[GreyCrow]

Of cause this would in no way encourage the people smugglers now would it.

It was this attitude that kicked off the last wave of boat people and only Tony Abbott had the solution, Australia owes this great man a great deal of respect.

You are right that people smugglers would certainly view any proposal as money from heaven, but working with the Indonesian Government , the Indo Processing Centre would/should limit people smuggling. If you know that once you reach Indonesia you will have a chance of being in Australia , safely and with papers, then I am sure you will skip the smugglers. I would make it a determination that anyone who uses a smuggler ie still enters Oz illegally is doing so for criminal purposes and ship them back off to whichever country they came from. Pull the plane up at the e.g Kabul Airport and push them off the plane.

I am a supporter of a rural solution

 

[kwikfix]

I am a supporter of http://australianlibertyalliance.org.au/

 

[JackOutback]

Of cause this would in no way encourage the people smugglers now would it.

It was this attitude that kicked off the last wave of boat people and only Tony Abbott had the solution, Australia owes this great man a great deal of respect.

Haha...classic.

 

[medusala]

Because those bleeding-heart right-wingers are so deeply concerned about the refugees' welfare at sea.

$10.5bn and counting in the past few years.

No argument from me. Total waste of cash.

Its VERY simple. We refuse to process any claimants as we are entitled to under the treaty. Costs then would drop dramatically. No brainer. Unfortunately the government is too weak to stand up to the grubby bleading heart set who are all to happy for people smugglers to make a nice living

Shameful stuff.

 

[medusala]

Burnside has two that are worthy of discussion that both present as far, far cheaper options (worth discussing as this is the budget emergency thread):

Lol, the man who defend Bondy and the MUA.

Full of holes. How do you make people stay in one city? How do you deport them once they are not found to be refugees?

A variant of this would be to require asylum seekers to live in Tasmania instead of regional towns.

What a low life campaigner. How about you put some up in your place instead of dumping them someone you pathetic knob.

I'm sure with the shilling you took from Bondy et al you could afford it. Campaigner of the highest order and yet thinks he can lecture others on morality.

 

[Power Raid]

That's the problem with the mindset - it's either "lock everyone up" or "open the borders for everyone" as the options presented.

What about other ideas?

Burnside has two that are worthy of discussion that both present as far, far cheaper options (worth discussing as this is the budget emergency thread):



http://www.julianburnside.com.au/an-alternative-to-offshore-detention/

yep there needs to be a better way but not sure if the proposed works as it ignores the push issue and was the cause of the drama that has taken years to get back under control.

further imagine the instability in Indonesia if probowo, hadn't had his revenue cut running the boats and won the election. how many chinese-indonesians would be dead already.........do we want to take the risk of creating a failed state right next door to us?


but yes we should look at better ways and the most sensible would be that resettlement should never be in the country asylum is sought. rather they are processed and a lucky dip resettlement. We should also continue to take circa 10% of the total refugees resettled each year which ranks us 3rd globally and 4 times bigger than the fourth ranked nation.

 

[CM86]

one is about your heart and the other is about "those damn foreigners taking me jobs again" right?

Why do you support a racist policy that discriminates against Australians?
#PRlogic

 

[Power Raid]

Why do you support a racist policy that discriminates against Australians?
#PRlogic

lol......you are struggling with what discrimination is.

 

[Mofra]

Of cause this would in no way encourage the people smugglers now would it.

It was this attitude that kicked off the last wave of boat people and only Tony Abbott had the solution, Australia owes this great man a great deal of respect.

So if were selecting people from Indonesia people would still get on boats from there to head to Australia?
Ah no - that's the point.
A regional solution is the only way forward. We do not exist in a vacuum.

Abbott's stupidly expensive dog whistling to people who normally scream "deficit! deficit! is one of more blatant examples of political hypocrisy in the modern era - especially considering the cuts for foreign aid under his watch which hurt far more than the 1400 or so asylum seekers the right pretend to care oh so much about (until they land).

 

[Mofra]

one is about your heart and the other is about "those damn foreigners taking me jobs again" right?

The other side of the debate is how to ensure shrinking / dying towns in rural Australia are maintained.

We already have pseudo-central planning policies that seek to push resettled peoples to regional areas, and of course the 3 month rural requirement for working and extended visas.

Encouraging people to move outside of the major population centres helps ease the burden on infrastructure development which is already lacking in outer-suburban areas of our major cities.

 

[Power Raid]

So if were selecting people from Indonesia people would still get on boats from there to head to Australia?
Ah no - that's the point.
A regional solution is the only way forward. We do not exist in a vacuum.

Abbott's stupidly expensive dog whistling to people who normally scream "deficit! deficit! is one of more blatant examples of political hypocrisy in the modern era - especially considering the cuts for foreign aid under his watch which hurt far more than the 1400 or so asylum seekers the right pretend to care oh so much about (until they land).

your right re the vacuum.........probowo says hi

 

[Mofra]

your right re the vacuum.........probowo says hi

True.
It's actually being played out worldwide, from the ME post-Arab Spring to the US where millions of 'forgotten' voters will do anything to make their voices heard.

It does make you wonder whether the advent of social media and the 24 hr news cycle has made traditional politicians so afraid of saying the wrong thing that they barely say anything of substance at all, contributing heavily to the vacuum of ideas and leadership from major parties.
Dan Andrews won an election playing small target politics with perhaps one or two notable positions, Bill Shorten made up huge ground on the Libs doing something similar (ie virtually nothing).
Little wonder people from both sides of the political divide found the last Fed election so thoroughly underwhelming.

 

[CM86]

lol......you are struggling with what discrimination is.

So, yes or no. Are 457 visa discriminatory? In your opinion.

 

[Power Raid]

So, yes or no. Are 457 visa discriminatory? In your opinion.

take it to the right thread

 

[Power Raid]

True.
It's actually being played out worldwide, from the ME post-Arab Spring to the US where millions of 'forgotten' voters will do anything to make their voices heard.

It does make you wonder whether the advent of social media and the 24 hr news cycle has made traditional politicians so afraid of saying the wrong thing that they barely say anything of substance at all, contributing heavily to the vacuum of ideas and leadership from major parties.
Dan Andrews won an election playing small target politics with perhaps one or two notable positions, Bill Shorten made up huge ground on the Libs doing something similar (ie virtually nothing).
Little wonder people from both sides of the political divide found the last Fed election so thoroughly underwhelming.

I hadn't thought of it that way but yes, it seems keeping to "safe areas" is what works. Politics is now won by saying what is wrong rather than what is right or the solutions. If you are positive you have to take ownership as a politician and then open yourself up to social media hysteria. Pointing out what is wrong, delivers the focus onto someone else.

I truly believe we need to move to policy politics through a prospectus and ban the identity of our politicians/ ban media coverage of politicians. The media can focus on reporting policy still but this change would see politics being policy driven rather than personality driven. Facts not sentiment!

 

[Power Raid]

The other side of the debate is how to ensure shrinking / dying towns in rural Australia are maintained.

We already have pseudo-central planning policies that seek to push resettled peoples to regional areas, and of course the 3 month rural requirement for working and extended visas.

Encouraging people to move outside of the major population centres helps ease the burden on infrastructure development which is already lacking in outer-suburban areas of our major cities.

yep

when my family came to Australia (and I trust Maggies), they were placed in work camps in outback Victoria until there language skills approved, trade skills recognised and determined disease free. This took between 6-12 months.

This concept may work with a more lenient position, reflective of the times, but the concept of controlling resettlement by jurisdiction still a focus. A life ban from living in major cities, is not unreasonable.

Perhaps we should stop pork barrelling our capitals and marginal seats as well. A return to nation building would see housing prices in our capitals fall and regional cities thrive with an appropriate reallocation of resources.

I like it!

 

[Gough]

I hadn't thought of it that way but yes, it seems keeping to "safe areas" is what works. Politics is now won by saying what is wrong rather than what is right or the solutions. If you are positive you have to take ownership as a politician and then open yourself up to social media hysteria. Pointing out what is wrong, delivers the focus onto someone else.

I truly believe we need to move to policy politics through a prospectus and ban the identity of our politicians/ ban media coverage of politicians. The media can focus on reporting policy still but this change would see politics being policy driven rather than personality driven. Facts not sentiment!

As one who blindly cheer led the rise of Tony Abbott, nobody is better placed to know this than you, I trust you won't be fooled again.

 

[Power Raid]

As one who blindly cheer led the rise of Tony Abbott, nobody is better placed to know this than you, I trust you won't be fooled again.

on the dope again at this time of the day?

 

[CM86]

take it to the right thread

Let's have a look at some of your posts in this thread...

The fact that FIRB hasn't put a stop order on these investments suggests that they believe it is in the national interest. Yet that isn't good enough for some people who feel it is OK to demonise foreigners.

I trust the Racial Discrimination Act is only there when it suits (please read the act as it covers more than just race).

you're probably right but it is fear and the fear manifests into racism (even if he doesn't mean to be a racists. There is little denying there is discrimination by nation of origin thus a breach of the RDA.

The indigenous issue is an embarrassment to this great nation and the cause of it is by a number of reason. Many complex and others really simple..........racism.
Yet some of us still haven't learned that discrimination by race, nationality, colour, origin etc is negative. The reality is, the cost and pain of discrimination is a burden for society as well as the individuals involved. So please stop!

Looks like the right thread to me. But as usual, avoidance due to knowing you haven't got a leg to stand on.

 

[Maggie5]

yep

when my family came to Australia (and I trust Maggies), they were placed in work camps in outback Victoria until there language skills approved, trade skills recognised and determined disease free. This took between 6-12 months.

This concept may work with a more lenient position, reflective of the times, but the concept of controlling resettlement by jurisdiction still a focus. A life ban from living in major cities, is not unreasonable.

Perhaps we should stop pork barrelling our capitals and marginal seats as well. A return to nation building would see housing prices in our capitals fall and regional cities thrive with an appropriate reallocation of resources.

I like it!

My family's experience was nothing like your family.
Brought to Australia, dropped off in Bonegilla and fended for ourselves.
No case worker, no language classes, no welfare/health checks (except for lice), no assistance in finding alternative accommodation etc.

Best thing that happened to us as we learned pretty quickly that a family of 8 (mum, dad and 6 kids under 15) had to fend for themselves which was a good building block for the future.

The only slight common factor was that we settled in a country town where there was lots of work on vegie and fruit farms.

 

[JackOutback]

True.
It's actually being played out worldwide, from the ME post-Arab Spring to the US where millions of 'forgotten' voters will do anything to make their voices heard.

It does make you wonder whether the advent of social media and the 24 hr news cycle has made traditional politicians so afraid of saying the wrong thing that they barely say anything of substance at all, contributing heavily to the vacuum of ideas and leadership from major parties.
Dan Andrews won an election playing small target politics with perhaps one or two notable positions, Bill Shorten made up huge ground on the Libs doing something similar (ie virtually nothing).
Little wonder people from both sides of the political divide found the last Fed election so thoroughly underwhelming.

I would hardly say Shorten played small target politics. If anything, policies like on negative gearing we're bold precisely because he had so much ground to make up.

 

[Moo]

I would hardly say Shorten played small target politics. If anything, policies like on negative gearing we're bold precisely because he had so much ground to make up.

Wait until the next election .....ALP will have trouble limiting negative attack adds.

There are so many targets to hit, they could have Levi Casboult as their Media Manager and still get the job done.

 

[JackOutback]

Agreed, he went bold because had little choice. If the Coalition continues to eat itself, Shorten will play it safe at the next election. Small target, plenty of attack.