Decision time at AFC

[WaynesWorld19]

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Originally posted by Jerome
I know.

I dont wanna lose Mass but I feel that as a Victorian (who has a house over there) and can play he would be involved in any deal for a Vic based player. He'd be the easiest one to trade even for a draft pick out of that lot.

Massie IMO provides a bit of team character, which I like.
Any decision to trade should be based on their trade value, value to the AFC, not their state of origin.

 

[macca23]

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Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Jerome, if my suggestions failed to get support, this trio have no chance of getting up.
Trouble is if they cant be traded, we have to make the tough decision and delist.

Not necessarily so. Correct in some cases, but I wouldn't delist any of Massie, Bode or Doughty.

Although they might not be able to be traded, they form part of the overall depth. You need at least 30 players who can play AFL footy before you have a good team.

The ones that you must delist are the ones that have been around for some time and you only play when you are having a really bad year for injuries, and even then you are reluctant to play them. eg Nelson and Schell from last year.

 

[Stiffy_18]

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Originally posted by Wayne's-World
If Kruegers back is as bad as everyone is saying, his chances of being a CHF, are negligible.
We need top midfielders and a FB as a priority - just look on Ayres face as Gehrig took another chest mark in the goal square.

To get a Ruckman ( and we need quality), we need a top 10 pick, other than what we will have naturally.
But who do we trade?, and what is their value as a top 10 pick?.

This bring me all the way back to trading period but I will repeat myself for the millionth time:

Krueger is NOT a ruckman

Now that I got that off my chest, I will agree that we need a FB and midfielders and a gun young ruckman.

I don't think we have a hell of a lot of trading options without putting us on the back foot.

 

[Stiffy_18]

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Originally posted by macca23
Not necessarily so. Correct in some cases, but I wouldn't delist any of Massie, Bode or Doughty.

Although they might not be able to be traded, they form part of the overall depth. You need at least 30 players who can play AFL footy before you have a good team.

The ones that you must delist are the ones that have been around for some time and you only play when you are having a really bad year for injuries, and even then you are reluctant to play them. eg Nelson and Schell from last year.

Spot on.

 

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Now why the hell are people throwing up Massie's name???????

Jerome, there is no way in hell someone will give you a top 10 pick for someone like Massie, Bode or Doughty even if they are thrown in as a combination.

Please read the post and tell me where I said we could get a top ten pick for them.

If youre gonna quote me, get your facts right.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Each year there are at least 3 obvious candidates for delisting.
But to avoid mediocrity in the rebuilding phase, some average footballers, will need to make way for untried draft choices, in the hope of uncovering a gem.
In mature phase ( as Adelaide have been) player depth is important, not so much in rebuilding phase.

 

[Stiffy_18]

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Originally posted by Bockchoy67
At 197cm, Fergus Watts could also really step to the plate in the ruck division.

Thoughts?

Thats robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Krueger is not a ruckman. He is someone who can pinch hit in the ruck if you are really desperate. I see him as someone like Nathan Thompson from Hawthorn who is of much greater value as a forward than as a ruckman.

We need genuine ruckman who is 198 cm +

Watts is a key forward so I reckon playing him in the ruck is a no no. Thats like Port using Tredders or Lions using Brown as a back up ruckman.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

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Originally posted by Stiffy_18
This bring me all the way back to trading period but I will repeat myself for the millionth time:

Krueger is NOT a ruckman

Now that I got that off my chest, I will agree that we need a FB and midfielders and a gun young ruckman.

I don't think we have a hell of a lot of trading options without putting us on the back foot.

Have I missed something here - when did I suggest Krueger as a Ruckman

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Jerome
Please read the post and tell me where I said we could get a top ten pick for them.

If youre gonna quote me, get your facts right.

Get of the high horse will ya.

Isn't W'sW asking the question as to who we can trade to get a top 10 pick.

 

[Jerome]

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Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Massie IMO provides a bit of team character, which I like.
Any decision to trade should be based on their trade value, value to the AFC, not their state of origin.

Fair point. But to trade a player you have to be able to sell them to a club.

As I said, I dont wanna lose Massie, I quite like him.

However it would be easy for the club to sell him to another club due to his strong victorian connections.

Sort of like why we got Torney. Good player for the Tiges, not their worst.

We took him because of his SA ties. His state or origin was part of Richmond's sales pitch.

 

[Stiffy_18]

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Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Have I missed something here - when did I suggest Krueger as a Ruckman

I read what you quoted and it got me a bit hot under the collar

Not having a go at you but the bloke you quoted.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by Jerome
Please read the post and tell me where I said we could get a top ten pick for them.

If youre gonna quote me, get your facts right.

I think it was part of my conversation with Stiffy, putting names up as potential top 10 draft trades.
Your reply was automatically linked as an alternative suggestion to mine for a top 10 draft choice.

Natural assuption by Stiffy.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

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Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I read what you quoted and it got me a bit hot under the collar

Not having a go at you but the bloke you quoted.

 

[spindoctor]

Originally posted by ok.crows
flawed - as even blind freddy could see

Krueger is BLIND?

Why did we pick him?

 

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Get of the high horse will ya.

Isn't W'sW asking the question as to who we can trade to get a top 10 pick.

Yes he did ask that question. Before that he said "high draft pick", thats what I responded to. But still, if you're gonna quote me get it right.

 

[Bockchoy67]

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Originally posted by Stiffy_18
This bring me all the way back to trading period but I will repeat myself for the millionth time:

Krueger is NOT a ruckman

Now that I got that off my chest, I will agree that we need a FB and midfielders and a gun young ruckman.

I don't think we have a hell of a lot of trading options without putting us on the back foot.

So Stiffy, how will we obtain this Young Gun ruckman?

If we were to get him in the draft, he must be already built for such duties.

I think we should go for a trade. Swap Biglands (and perhaps a suitable draft pick) for a more promising ruckman.

Someone like Mark Seaby, Paul Johnson or Mark Jamar. They are all young and would be really beneficial for the Crows.

 

[Stiffy_18]

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Originally posted by Bockchoy67
So Stiffy, how will we obtain this Young Gun ruckman?

If we were to get him in the draft, he must be already built for such duties.

I think we should go for a trade. Swap Biglands (and perhaps a suitable draft pick) for a more promising ruckman.

Someone like Mark Seaby, Paul Johnson or Mark Jamar. They are all young and would be really beneficial for the Crows.

Through the draft or as you say trading for younger more promising ruckman.

Of the 3 you mentioned seaby is the pick of the bunch by a fair margin. Johnson is a KPP who can pinch hit in the ruck (yes he is tall 199cm) and Jamar is the younger and less versatile verion of Biglands.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

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Originally posted by Bockchoy67
So Stiffy, how will we obtain this Young Gun ruckman?

If we were to get him in the draft, he must be already built for such duties.

I think we should go for a trade. Swap Biglands (and perhaps a suitable draft pick) for a more promising ruckman.

Someone like Mark Seaby, Paul Johnson or Mark Jamar. They are all young and would be really beneficial for the Crows.

If their any good, the clubs certainly wont release them.

The really annoying thing here is, we had first opportunity to grab both Jamar and the Port bloke (whats his name?) - and we passed on both.
Our player judgement skills need to be seriously looked at.

Always thought one of the real skills of a great coach was identifying talent at an early age ( and not top 10 draft picks which, by and large are obvious).
As a Kerley devotee, that was one of his great skills.
Sadly I don't know if anyone at AFC has those skills?

 

[macca23]

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Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Through the draft or as you say trading for younger more promising ruckman.

Of the 3 you mentioned seaby is the pick of the bunch by a fair margin. Johnson is a KPP who can pinch hit in the ruck (yes he is tall 199cm) and Jamar is the younger and less versatile verion of Biglands.

Seaby is the future pearl in that lot.

I'd give a fair bit in a trade for him, but it won't happen. Worsfold is too smart for that.

 

[Jerome]

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Originally posted by Wayne's-World
If their any good, the clubs certainly wont release them.

The really annoying thing here is, we had first opportunity to grab both Jamar and the Port bloke (whats his name?) - and we passed on both.
Our player judgement skills need to be seriously looked at.

Brogan.

I agree. Those two calls still annoy me, however we had Angwin around that time and we figured he'd come good.

Depending on how well he recovers from his knee injury St Kilda, Barry Brooks may be another option.

 

[Bockchoy67]

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Originally posted by macca23
Seaby is the future pearl in that lot.

I'd give a fair bit in a trade for him, but it won't happen. Worsfold is too smart for that.

Yes, he is a good player, but think of the club he is at. West Coast have both Gardiner and Cox. One of the best ruckman in the AFL, and one who is on the move.

Surely that leaves a small amount of oppirtunity for Seaby. When Gardiner and Cox are both playing, there seems to be no need to play him.

But we could really go for someone like Seaby. A young developer who is starved of opportunity. It couldn't be that difficult to snare him, could it?

 

[Stiffy_18]

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Originally posted by macca23
Seaby is the future pearl in that lot.

I'd give a fair bit in a trade for him, but it won't happen. Worsfold is too smart for that.

I would throw everything including a kitchen sink at WC for Seaby but as you say it is very unlikely to happen. I just wish we draft as good a ruckman as Seaby.

If WC go for Stenglein and Perrie I would be laughing all the way to the bank

 

[Stiffy_18]

Can I just clarify the Jamar situation.

He was training with us and we had 1 spot on the list remaining. Come pre-season draft it was a choice between Jamar and Hentschel. We took Hentschel and were going to take Jamar with our 1st pick in the rookie draft. However, Melbourne pounced at pick 5 and snatched him up before he got to us.

Personally, I think AFC made the right decision there.

A week later Angwin p|sses of home and quits AFC so were were left with 3 ruckman.

Angwin has cost this club more than a lot of people realise.


Brogan is a different story.

 

[Stiffy_18]

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Originally posted by Bockchoy67
Yes, he is a good player, but think of the club he is at. West Coast have both Gardiner and Cox. One of the best ruckman in the AFL, and one who is on the move.

Surely that leaves a small amount of oppirtunity for Seaby. When Gardiner and Cox are both playing, there seems to be no need to play him.

But we could really go for someone like Seaby. A young developer who is starved of opportunity. It couldn't be that difficult to snare him, could it?

The beauty about Seaby is that he can also play a KP. Ruckman who can play KP as opposed to a KPP who can pinch hit in ruck.

I really doubt whether WC would even consider letting Seaby go. He is a genuine gun ruckman in the making. Those types of players don't grow on trees.

 

[theorangeapple]

as an eagles supporter, i can say that seaby will have a similar impact to gardiner, he finished 3rd in the sandover medal (led till round 17) as an 18 year old. very rare indeed for a ruckman.

i'd say a ONLY a top 5 pick would even make us consider. and i no that there is no way the crows would consider that option.

what about cox??

we'd take a late first rounder.
possibly stenglein and third round pick.