Decriminalisation of drugs... your thoughts?

Number37

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Number37 - how many ******* times are you going to use 'drugs are cool mm-kay' as a retort? I think this is a valid discussion to have as it's a fairly complex, divisive issue with pros and cons on both sides but it seems you aren't really serious about fleshing it out. You've made up your mind and that's it. That's fine but why are you even here. Are you just wanting to derail this thread?

I think the pro decriminalisation side is a little bit more nuanced than 'easy access to drugs because drugs are cool mm-kay'. FMD.
It wasn't me that opened that door.
Quite a few used the 'drugs are bad mm-kay' in response to anyone that didn't agree with them. Multiple times.

I actually posted a series of links about drug use and drugs from highly credible sources.
They were dismissed as 'drugs are bad mm-kay'.

It demonstrated very clearly that the only people that aren't interested in having a discussion about a fairly complex and divisive issue if they aren't told what they want to hear.

The fact that you didn't see those posts, or simply ignored them, suggests to me that you're only here to post yet another F'ing boring ad hom.
If you're going to post ad homs at least make them interesting or funny.

Why are you even here?
The only thing that you have made up your mind about is what you think I have made up my mind about. Again, FO with that bullshit.

The people that are championing drugs for everybody, just because, are doing a great disservice to the same people they want you to believe they are looking out for. Their use of those vulnerable people is nothing more than convenient bullshit.

If you are serious about the debate then go and read what the people dealing with it on a daily basis want to happen. Go and talk them.
There is plenty of information out there. There has been numerous parliamentary inquiries with submissions from all sorts of people. Go read the submissions.
Go find out what they do, how they are inhibited in what they do and what can be done to help them and what they are asking to be done.

Nearly everyone recognises that decriminalization can help but how much decriminalization helps is largely a function of the funding of support services.
This was testified to by people who helped frame the Portugal laws and by people who have actually worked within the Portugal framework.

Better still you can have a look at other models. There are countries that have adopted models other than decriminalization including hardening their drug laws. There are things to learn from all those things.

'The war on drugs' failure is a proxy for all drugs and drug use problems are a function of laws surrounding drugs and drug use.
That is wholly disingenuous because it fails spectacularly at looking at the problem other than through the prism of law enforcement.
 

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CheapCharlie

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You simply double downed your previous post with the same unsubstantiated nonsense but this time with longer sentences.
Drugs are cool mm-kay is all that you have, the rest is unsubstantiated nonsense.

..... Of course you will say I am the complete opposite of whatever nonsense it is that you're saying + the usual other trash that you write because you simply can't accept that in my view the things that you write about decriminalization are complete and utter garbage which you only ever substantiate with fantasy and wishful thinking.
You used Portugal as an example of why the decriminalisation doesn't work
In fact, Statistics from Portugal nearly all support my arguments and go against your arguments.


You don't even have the integrity to just say what you really want is easy access to drugs because drugs are cool mm-kay.
My integrity is intact
I haven't had any illegal style drugs for at least 15 years and I'm not personally interested in them. My personal usage, as is your personal usage, is and should be irrelevant to the debate.

Once again you prove what an ass you are
 

CheapCharlie

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That's just more of your made up bullshit.

Look at what Portugal actually did...not your made up bullshit about what they did in Portugal.
I have looked at the results of Portugal, which is your go to example. The results overwhelmingly show that they have reduced harm and overdoses and HIV infection and reduced drug offences, etcetera
These are the things you keep saying wont be reduced or will increase, yet the very opposite has happened.
Those stats are only one part of my argument for legalisation, but they go against your very argument and you still use Portugal as a reason not to decriminalise.

In fact, legalisation in Portugal has reduced drug usage


Here's what the data says about Portugal's decriminalization:
  • Drug-related HIV infections have plummeted by over 90% since 2001, according to the drug-policy think tank Transform.

  • Drug-related deaths in Portugal are the second-lowest in the European Union. Just three in a million people die of overdoses there, compared with the EU average of 17.3 per million.

  • The number of adults who have done drugs in the past year has decreased steadily since 2001.

  • Compared to rest of the EU, young people in Portugal now use the least amount of "legal high" drugs like synthetic marijuana, which are especially dangerous.

  • The percentage of drug-related offenders in Portuguese prisons fell from 44% in 1999 to 21% in 2012.

  • The number of people in drug-treatment increased 60% from 1998 to 2011 from 23,600 to 38,000.
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/countries/drug-reports/2018/portugal/key-statistics_en

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/countries/drug-reports/2018/portugal_en

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...licy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ortugal/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2cb1c8ddde49

https://www.econlib.org/archives/2017/12/is_portugals_dr.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-study-cocaine-marijuana-heroin-a7996896.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/wha...al-decriminalized-all-drugs-2016-3/?r=AU&IR=T

https://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-setting-record-straight

https://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/success-portugal’s-decriminalisation-policy-–-seven-charts
 

ShanDog

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Moderator #810
There might be another side to the argument but he hasn't presented it yet
And unfortunately he won't have the opportunity.

Friendly mod reminder that consistently posting in an antagonistic way and repeating the same rhetoric over and over as responses will result in temp threadbans. Play nice.
 

Bunkdar

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And unfortunately he won't have the opportunity.

Friendly mod reminder that consistently posting in an antagonistic way and repeating the same rhetoric over and over as responses will result in temp threadbans. Play nice.
i think i have a new angle but can you PM people before acting god on the discussion of ban
 

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Total Power

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I have looked at the results of Portugal, which is your go to example. The results overwhelmingly show that they have reduced harm and overdoses and HIV infection and reduced drug offences, etcetera
These are the things you keep saying wont be reduced or will increase, yet the very opposite has happened.
Those stats are only one part of my argument for legalisation, but they go against your very argument and you still use Portugal as a reason not to decriminalise.

In fact, legalisation in Portugal has reduced drug usage


Here's what the data says about Portugal's decriminalization:
  • Drug-related HIV infections have plummeted by over 90% since 2001, according to the drug-policy think tank Transform.

  • Drug-related deaths in Portugal are the second-lowest in the European Union. Just three in a million people die of overdoses there, compared with the EU average of 17.3 per million.

  • The number of adults who have done drugs in the past year has decreased steadily since 2001.

  • Compared to rest of the EU, young people in Portugal now use the least amount of "legal high" drugs like synthetic marijuana, which are especially dangerous.

  • The percentage of drug-related offenders in Portuguese prisons fell from 44% in 1999 to 21% in 2012.

  • The number of people in drug-treatment increased 60% from 1998 to 2011 from 23,600 to 38,000.
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/countries/drug-reports/2018/portugal/key-statistics_en

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/countries/drug-reports/2018/portugal_en

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...licy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ortugal/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2cb1c8ddde49

https://www.econlib.org/archives/2017/12/is_portugals_dr.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-study-cocaine-marijuana-heroin-a7996896.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/wha...al-decriminalized-all-drugs-2016-3/?r=AU&IR=T

https://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-setting-record-straight

https://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/success-portugal’s-decriminalisation-policy-–-seven-charts

Ouch! lol his arse must be sore from this.
 

nicky

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And unfortunately he won't have the opportunity.

Friendly mod reminder that consistently posting in an antagonistic way and repeating the same rhetoric over and over as responses will result in temp threadbans. Play nice.
Yeah i hate to say it but he had it coming. It was getting worse and worse.
 

CheapCharlie

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Clearly, but one that for some reason stops him from being able to engage with it in anything remotely resembling a reasonable disposition.
I didn't know the swans discussed offtopic things.

But yes, he has a personal interest or passion on this topic.
Its happened on other topics
He doesn't like opposing views on topics he is passionate about
 

Total Power

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Yeah i hate to say it but he had it coming. It was getting worse and worse.
He does that everywhere. I said something about Islam reforming itself and he said i am a white supremacist. Fancy an aboriginal person being a white supremacist when Malifiice himself said i never crossed the line.It's hard to have an adult discussion with him with all the ad homs and whataboutism. Snakey is another one, the moment you dont agree with them he will go "you are an idiot". These people are way too aggressive for my liking.
 

SnakeMan86

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Fanciful absolute garbage that decriminalization will reduce the heath care costs associated with drug use.
Decriminalization only works to the extent that funding is increased for support services, like health care. The Portugal example makes that abundantly clear.
There is zero evidence that decriminalization leads to a decrease in policing or court costs.
There is zero evidence that decriminalization leads to safer drugs.

Having a good time at a party with other drug users is not "evidence".
Social utility is the opposite of enforcing an individual's rights.
This is simply not true.

1. You cant put all drugs into the same category. You cant lump Weed in the same category as ice or meth. I for one have personally seen the benefits of a cancer patient smoking weed to relieve nausea and improve appetite whist going through chemo.

2. Take ecstasy for example. 20 years ago a standard pill used to contain around 20% MDMA, now you are looking at around 2-3%, why? Mainly because of our strict border force, and how hard it is to import, but also due to the dwindling Sassafras tree in South East Asia.
So what then? Manufacturers are finding alternatives to mimic the same reaction as a standard pill, chemicals such as battery acid, urinal cakes, glass etc. People these days aren't simply overdosing, they are having bad reactions to such chemicals in there bloodstream and stomach.
This is why testing kits are becoming an almost necessity. Baby powder in cocain as a filler etc.
It is also the reason Flacca, bath salts, take any synthetic drug are becoming more prevalent.

Should Ice be made legal. HELL NO, due to not only the effects of the user, but also the massive risk of harm to others.
Heroin? I personally say NO.
Weed? Yes, its proven medically to be a positive and the simple fact that it cant be taxed is the largest reason for it not being made legal.
Would decriminalization lead to safer drugs? Theres absolute evidence to suggest it would.
 
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