Decriminalisation of drugs... your thoughts?

Snake_Baker

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Look out, it may be happening now !!

In the US they are finding the number of car crashes involving stoned people has doubled since decriminalising. So you'd hope there was a crackdown to stop it happening here.

I couldnt care less if people get stoned in front of the TV. I do care if they endanger others.
I have never seriously bought the whole stoned vs bad driver thing.
 

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Mofra

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In the US they are finding the number of car crashes involving stoned people has doubled since decriminalising. So you'd hope there was a crackdown to stop it happening here.
How do they actually measure that? THC can stay in your system for quite some time even after the effects have worn off.
 

Tayl0r

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Yeah, how much damage can you do going at 25 kmh?
That's fine if the road is 25km/h. It gets progressively more dangerous the higher the speed limit.
How do they actually measure that? THC can stay in your system for quite some time even after the effects have worn off.
If it's in your system can you demonstrate that it isn't having an effect?

Or are you referring to the drug test showing up a metabolite of THC that is being treated as though they are the same thing?
 

HairyO

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How do they actually measure that? THC can stay in your system for quite some time even after the effects have worn off.
Probably the first question asked when taken to hospital is whether they can get a burger.

I dont know. Netherlands found the same. And it makes sense. Mainstream something and people will assume its ok and not think about it.

I would assume if made legal they would test the level, not simply the presence. Like with booze.
 

Tayl0r

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It would encourage revisiting of the debate around how much alcohol is acceptable in someone's system, and how they came to that figure previously.

Was it around innocent exposure to alcohol in day to day life potentially excluding them from driving, maybe a medication that would have them test at 0.01 etc?

Or was it a cultural thing where people weren't expected to either get a taxi or not drink at all going out to dinner?

Does society have that same expectation still and does Uber have a vested interest in that law being revised to zero so their driverless cars plan can gain full coverage?
 

Snake_Baker

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If it's in your system can you demonstrate that it isn't having an effect?
The onus is on the state to prove otherwise.

Or are you referring to the drug test showing up a metabolite of THC that is being treated as though they are the same thing?
I don't think saliva tests detect any metabolites.
 

Mofra

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That's fine if the road is 25km/h. It gets progressively more dangerous the higher the speed limit.
I was clearly being facetious

If it's in your system can you demonstrate that it isn't having an effect?

Or are you referring to the drug test showing up a metabolite of THC that is being treated as though they are the same thing?
The latter. The testing doesn't test for effect, merely presence.
If there was a way to test for effect, even if it was some arbitrary measure akin to the BAL for alcohol, there might be a way to make the testing fairer.
 

Tayl0r

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The onus is on the state to prove otherwise.
I agree in principle. The culture unfortunately is that the law represents what is both right and safe, the discussion around alcohol isn't whether someone with a 0.04 reading was influenced by alcohol in their crash - it's assumed that level of impairment wasn't contributing because it's under the 0.05 limit. It's assumed that's safe.

So a clashing of ideologies here where a regulatory body is given power to decide what is a safe level of impairment, in order for the police to administer that, but also with them not wanting to have that discussion on finding out the thresholds of impairment because they don't think drugs should be used. The clash being that they want the power to regulate it, the community hands the responsibility to them to decide what's safe, but the government body doesn't want to validate the drug use by providing a determination on safe.

Perhaps we also need to have that testing on alcohol, and fatigue.
 

Snake_Baker

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Tayl0r

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The latter. The testing doesn't test for effect, merely presence.
If there was a way to test for effect, even if it was some arbitrary measure akin to the BAL for alcohol, there might be a way to make the testing fairer.
After two minutes of thought on this I have designed an experiment.

We will take a random selection of 1000 citizens, this will feature a cross section of all ages, drug experiences and both genders, size etc.

Then we have them sit a cognitive response test, where they tap the lights when they turn on. Like a fancy whack a croc game at timezone.

They will then be administered either a placebo pill or a THC pill. A small dose equivalent to a standard suck of a joint. Their breathe/saliva is tested.
They retake the test. Again, another sample tested. Then again in ten minutes. Another sample tested.
They then are given another dose and the process repeated. This can go on for as many repeats as required.

Then over the next five to six hours the saliva tests and cognitive tests are repeated.

We will then be able to chart non distracted perception and reaction over time compared to a control group.

I'd like to do this test with morning groups, lunch groups, evening groups and night groups and compare results.

Secretly I'd also be measuring fatigue in the placebo groups.
 

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Snake_Baker

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After two minutes of thought on this I have designed an experiment.

We will take a random selection of 1000 citizens, this will feature a cross section of all ages, drug experiences and both genders, size etc.

Then we have them sit a cognitive response test, where they tap the lights when they turn on. Like a fancy whack a croc game at timezone.

They will then be administered either a placebo pill or a THC pill. A small dose equivalent to a standard suck of a joint. Their breathe/saliva is tested.
They retake the test. Again, another sample tested. Then again in ten minutes. Another sample tested.
They then are given another dose and the process repeated. This can go on for as many repeats as required.

Then over the next five to six hours the saliva tests and cognitive tests are repeated.

We will then be able to chart non distracted perception and reaction over time compared to a control group.

I'd like to do this test with morning groups, lunch groups, evening groups and night groups and compare results.

Secretly I'd also be measuring fatigue in the placebo groups.

There's a lot of flaws in these types of analysis.

Refer to snake's link above. It contains some of the information you may find interesting and be seeking for with the mooted experiment.
Yep. All the analytical data in the world falls apart when an element required to facilitate an actual crime cannot be proven.
 

Tayl0r

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We don't need anything.

The correlation between general cannabis use and driving is complete garbage.
So is alcohol and driving though.

I expect the blood alcohol level per driver per km/trip/driving event is very close to zero and if it isn't, does it correlate to incidents?

I'm not convinced we need a license to drive at all anyway given how low that bar is set, but could we live in a society that lets you do anything and punishes you in line with your poor choices, requiring you to consider the outcome first?
 

HairyO

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Didn't you read the bit about vitamin B2 and Ibuprofen?

Or are you suggesting the state should randomly pluck people out of motor vehicles and plunge syringes in their arms?
If 97% of lab testing confirmed THC I wonder how widespread this B2 and Nurofen false positive issue is.

Or is it really dope smokers looking for ways to get away with driving while stoned.
 
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