Deeper problems than we know?

[FR0GGY]

Yeah you have more confidence sure... but when you're hitting the lead you don't all of a sudden go home when Pets has a brain fade do you?

Sent from my luxury yacht in the Bahamas

You want to

 

[mattymac]

It has occurred to you the Hawks have a tad more depth than us currently??

We have less last quarter contested possessions than Melbourne. Thats more than injuries causing that

 

[Allefgib]

We have less last quarter contested possessions than Melbourne. Thats more than injuries causing that

This is stunning.
Reeks of players having no hope that their actions make a difference.

 

[Tex200]

We have less last quarter contested possessions than Melbourne. Thats more than injuries causing that

Yet another statistic confirming that we cease playing in the last and actually make little or no meaningful effort. Clearly not a personnel or a game plan issue

 

[Allefgib]

Yet another statistic confirming that we cease playing in the last and actually make little or no meaningful effort. Clearly not a personnel or a game plan issue

I look at if slightly differently.
I think there is a big difference in giving your full effort when you have hope and a sense of purpose, and giving your full effort when it feels futile. Application of effort isn't the issue imo.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Aaaah the black and white retreat.

How about discuss clubs, but don't hold dumb, crude shit as fact, and don't then start shitty, braindead petitions in an attempt to ruin someone's career? You pig.

No retreat at all. All you're really doing is claiming that all measures of performance are too crude, therefore we should never comment on our club's performance.

Meanwhile, somewhat amusingly given your claim that we don't know the facts, you've then called me a pig and accused me of starting 'shitty, braindead petitions'. Want to show me where I did this?

 

[Tex200]

I look at if slightly differently.
I think there is a big difference in giving your full effort when you have hope and a sense of purpose, and giving your full effort when it feels futile. Application of effort isn't the issue imo.

Fair enough.

The mystery is how you go from a sense of purpose at the 15 min mark of the third - to a sense of futility 5 mins later?

 

[Crowbots are dead]

my girlfriends uncles best friends brother in law reckons sando once shouted at training. Let's sign a partition. This has to stop!

 

[craig crowing]

First of all don't understand how Amer post calling a poster a pig wasn't deleted.
Think we have lost enough good posters due to these personal attacks and we least have some pride over the other mob in our site even though our Admin. and club standards have fallen below theirs.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

First of all don't understand how Amer post calling a poster a pig wasn't deleted.
Think we have lost enough good posters due to these personal attacks and we least have some pride over the other mob in our site even though our Admin. and club standards have fallen below theirs.

Just out of interest, did anyone report it?

Isn't that the mods motto? Report a post, remove a problem.

 

[Niximus]

my girlfriends uncles best friends brother in law reckons sando once shouted at training. Let's sign a partition. This has to stop!

So I signed a partition, I don't think my boss it too happy about me writing my name on the office though.

 

[rocket18]

You missed the point of my post. I wasn't talking about vB as a player, but as a leader. To a reasonable degree, that's separate from his playing form.

I'm talking about his influence during the breaks to focus and motivate the other players.

We've clearly been lacking that drive, particularly before games and at 3 quarter time, and I think a fair amount of that is attributable to missing a strong leader (as opposed to just good players).

I got your point, you feel he is a strong leader, I replied it happened under his watch (opposition kicking multiple goals/us folding). By "under his watch" I meant his captaincy.

I know the club have banged on about his great leadership skills IMO what has happened on the field indicates (and still does) that we are lacking in this area.

The captain can have some influence before the game and at the breaks but this is where the coaches (we have alot of them) should be doing that. The captains influence should be focused on field where the coaches don't have ready access to the players. Sure the captain may occasionally fire up the team just as they run out (in my experience any player can/has the opportunity to do this)

 

[rocket18]

The club is currently at the point where Geelong were at the same time in 2007. It's almost a carbon copy.

Woah, I like your positively - that is a very long bow that you draw!!

 

[rocket18]

isn't it funny when teams are losing all the talk about disharmony comes out. Win a few games and all that talk goes away. weird

True to an extent but even if we win the next 4 games, IMO we still have big issues that need sorting out.

 

[AFC979810]

Danger has clearly been playing under duress. I don't know if this is his call or the club's, but it's time to stop it. We've got co-captains, we don't "need" him out there if he's not right. Give him time.

Disagree 100%. We do need him out there. Has been in our best 10 players every game - even if he hasn't performed at his usual standard.

Who knows what his injury is? Its AFL - players play through pain all the time. Surely our medical department is competent enough to confirm that he has an injury which he can play through and won't risk it becoming a serious injury.

Personally, I don't think he is carrying anything too serious. Watching him bust out of the centre a few times against Sydney he almost looked like Danger of old. He is just out of form and working his way back into it. His game against Sydney was easily his best this year.

Danger is dealing with huge expectations and extra attention. He isn't dealing with it well. Its a bit of a cop out hearing on this board that its the rest of the teams fault that he is struggling with the extra attention. He needs to fight back himself. He is a big boy - throw some weight around. Watch Stevie J against Collingwood last week - they targeted him all game. He took the fight right back to them - at one stage he took his tagger straight to Nick Maxwell (who was playing loose) and started getting stuck in, effectively tying up two Collingwood players.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

First of all don't understand how Amer post calling a poster a pig wasn't deleted.
Think we have lost enough good posters due to these personal attacks and we least have some pride over the other mob in our site even though our Admin. and club standards have fallen below theirs.

Don't worry... STO can handle himself!

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Don't worry... STO can handle himself!

Especially thinking about VB.

 

[Mego Red]

Anyone watching AFL 360?

They just listed 8 players from Hawthorn were out vs Fremantle and they won by a stack.

Injuries are not the reason we are playing badly. It's an easy excuse to use.

How many of those eight were in Hawthorn's best 22?

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

How many of those eight were in Hawthorn's best 22?

All of them.

 

[Slippery Pete]

First of all don't understand how Amer post calling a poster a pig wasn't deleted.
Think we have lost enough good posters due to these personal attacks and we least have some pride over the other mob in our site even though our Admin. and club standards have fallen below theirs.

Nah, play on.

ST is a big boy.

 

[AFC979810]

All of them.

Who was missing? Hodge, Sewell, McEvoy, Whitecross, Stratton... which 3 am I missing?

 

[Slippery Pete]

No retreat at all. All you're really doing is claiming that all measures of performance are too crude, therefore we should never comment on our club's performance.

Meanwhile, somewhat amusingly given your claim that we don't know the facts, you've then called me a pig and accused me of starting 'shitty, braindead petitions'. Want to show me where I did this?

I'm still struggling to understand what he thinks is crude about taking a position based on loss of draft picks and huge fines.

On the contrary, it's as plain, damning and clear as it comes.

The petitioning isn't because we're losing games. It's based on the very clear and present mis-management of the club based on the standards set by the AFL itself.

 

[Macca Pakka]

Trading Vince for (effectively) Matt Crouch was 100% the right thing to do.

I half agree.

We needed draft picks. So I agree that getting Crouch for Vince was the right move as it got us pick 23. However we wouldn't have needed to trade a player to get a low pick if it wasn't for Trigg and the draft sanctions. Bluntly put, the sanctions cost us Vince. Would we have still traded Vince if we didn't have sanctions and roughly had picks 10 and 30? Perhaps, but the "sanctions" wouldn't have cost us Vince. From a players perspective it's not hard to imagine that "the Admin's incompetence is why my mate is no longer at the club, and yet they still are!"

You could also argue that trading him prior to reaching FA was a smart move, but by all reports he wanted to stay at Adelaide, so signing him on (at a reduced salary if need be) would have removed the risk of losing him for nothing as a FA.

I also believe Sando overestimated the strength of our senior group and this has been highlighted with VB's injury. Players like Mackay, Porps, Thommo and VB who should be leading from the front are not our best players. Whether you like Vince or not (or think he is lazy), IMHO he was a more consistent contributor in 2013 then any of the aforementioned players. With VB injured, we are currently a senior mid short. If we had retained Vince this would not be a problem.

While from a list management perspective trading Vince may have made sense, I doubt it would have been a popular decision with some of the players. It's fine for popular players to be traded/delisted, but it's harder to justify when they are comfortably in the 22 and don't want to leave. It's a VERY risky business shopping around players who don't want to leave - just ask Vossy.

 

[craig crowing]

Look I don't know exactly what is happening within the walls of Crowland but to say it is all rosy even without poor results is putting head in sand .
There has be a change at the top and has to happen soon and they have to have the guts to bring a CEO from outside and get some fresh ideas and positive strong leadership.
On field we have lots of problems and obviously we lack depth as any club would suffering the sanctions we had and suffering due to key injuries .
But as many posters have highlighted that has very little to do with our capitulations in last quarters in particular.
The problems lay with our very poor AFL required fitness levels for 2 nd year in a row and both Polous and Sando must take blame for .
Now time to revise and adjust what can which very very difficult mid season but searching for the fitness coach and team to develop a programme to get us back on track in 2015.
Although Sando somehow has got a 2 year extension , he has let himself and team down by hanging onto a under performing assistant coaches .
M Clark --- why he got the job and still keeps job can only be a friendship thing or lack of hardness by Sando thats required . even when win ruck can't get clearances or stop their running clearances.
Campo. --- Again he also has some responsibility to these clearance weaknesses and to the run and carry other mids are creating .
Lets face it our so called highly rated mids are getting smashed and not hurting opposition when do get possession.
Bickley --- Why is a defensive mid coaching our forwards was cry when got the job and now our concerns were fully warranted as our structure etc are diabolical and getting worse .
Then we gave the backs to a novice ex teammate and although not worst performing areas our zones etc are getting broken easily and someone has to take responsibility for.
Noble -- Yes of all footy dept. seems to be best performer but understand had to go into Deans role for awhile but since tragic death , we should get this position covered immediately.
Sando --- Totally out of depth now wheels have come off and has a game plan that not even close to working as teams run all over us .
His weakness was always going to be his strength in making hard decisions and day strategies and reactions . And that is what is occurring to a alarmingly level. If he is going to last past next year has to make big changes.
Yes we have a lot going wrong at the moment but worse part is we don't seem to have people to make the decisions that are required to turn it around.

 

[Elite Crow]

I half agree.

We needed draft picks. So I agree that getting Crouch for Vince was the right move as it got us pick 23. However we wouldn't have needed to trade a player to get a low pick if it wasn't for Trigg and the draft sanctions. Bluntly put, the sanctions cost us Vince. Would we have still traded Vince if we didn't have sanctions and roughly had picks 10 and 30? Perhaps, but the "sanctions" wouldn't have cost us Vince. From a players perspective it's not hard to imagine that "the Admin's incompetence is why my mate is no longer at the club, and yet they still are!"

You could also argue that trading him prior to reaching FA was a smart move, but by all reports he wanted to stay at Adelaide, so signing him on (at a reduced salary if need be) would have removed the risk of losing him for nothing as a FA.

I also believe Sando overestimated the strength of our senior group and this has been highlighted with VB's injury. Players like Mackay, Porps, Thommo and VB who should be leading from the front are not our best players. Whether you like Vince or not (or think he is lazy), IMHO he was a more consistent contributor in 2013 then any of the aforementioned players. With VB injured, we are currently a senior mid short. If we had retained Vince this would not be a problem.

While from a list management perspective trading Vince may have made sense, I doubt it would have been a popular decision with some of the players. It's fine for popular players to be traded/delisted, but it's harder to justify when they are comfortably in the 22 and don't want to leave. It's a VERY risky business shopping around players who don't want to leave - just ask Vossy.

Sums it up perfectly