Review Dees v Maggies: the Good, Bad & Fugly

Captain Jack

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I rarely post here any more but I have some thoughts to share following yesterday's game, which I foolishly watched the replay of this morning (was working Monday). Some thoughts on the season as a whole as well. In fact it turns out I have offered my thoughts on all our players.

May - added plenty to defence. Words cannot describe how much of an upgrade he is on Oscar.
Jones - playing his role I guess.
Salem - not his best work... a little concussed? With our defence more solid I'd like to see him on the wing using his kicking skills to better effect going inside 50.
Harmes - has a crack but wow his disposal is poor. Surely he goes back to hard tagging roles on Fyfe and Neale after the bye.
Petracca - gets a lot of hate but he's going ok.
Lewis - he may be rapidly reaching the end of the road but I think he still has value to add - particularly now we have good defenders playing, so theoretically he won't get caught out so much.
Viney - going ok. I'm just happy to see him out there getting consistent game time. His best form will hopefully follow next year with good continuity.
Lever - improved throughout the game. Great to have him back at last.
Spargo - I've seen enough of the kid for now. He's just not big enough to be effective. How deflating when literally at the first bounce he lines up on the wing against Sidebottom. That's just not going to end well.
Brayshaw - back to some of his best form. Kicking looked better this week too I thought.
Gawn - what a man. Could not do more.
Oliver - gun player who is still learning to be the main man in midfield, and to take the responsibility that comes with that. As plenty have said, needs to handball backwards less, and kick more. Unlimited talent - use it lad!
Hibberd - dependable. Looking forward to more offence from him with May and Lever in the team.
Stretch - nope. Will forever be known as the player who taught Oliver how to be a professional. Other than that he's just not AFL standard.
K Kolo - hoping to see more of him on the wing this year. Good skills and good size - both things we're missing when we have the likes of Spargo and Stretch playing on the wing at times.
Frost - I like the lad and we missed him and his pace yesterday. Looking forward to see what he can bring when he's no longer our best tall defender.
Melksham - really missing his exquisite kicking.
Hannan - improved through the game yesterday as he found the pace. Will be an asset in the second half of the year if he stays fit.
Preuss - get the big man in! I know there are 'structural' considerations but surely we would look more potent up forward with this absolute man mountain playing, and occupying a big defender. Particularly important against Brisbane in a couple weeks - Andrews is a 200cm gun and will carve us up if he doesn't have to play on Preuss.
VDB - who knows? Important in the rare times when he's fit.
JKH - I've tried to be optimistic with this guy and I thought he was ok against the Crows except for his kicking, but he's probably just not up to it.
T McDonald - wow what a fall. Injured? Hampered? Out of confidence? All of the above? It's time that he was either dropped to Casey, or played on the wing where perhaps he can play with some freedom and get his hands on the ball a bit.
Weid - improved through the game yesterday. Keep him in the team all year - hopefully with better delivery, and better support from McDonald/Preuss taking the best defender. Please for the love of all things sacred don't play Weid/Smith together without TMc/Preuss - opposition defences will have a field day.
Oscar - nope. Done.
Hunt - enjoying his work forward.
ANB - limited player, but you know what you get. Surely a better option than Spargo and Garlett.
Fristch - not his best work yesterday. I'd like to see him further up the ground, similar to Salem.
Baker - huge potential. Likely type. Keep playing him.
Hore - what a pickup. Kicking is a bit ropey at times but that's quite alright.
Petty - improved on his horror-show first game last year, so that's something. Worth persisting with for now.
Garlett - I've been keen to give old Jeffy as much latitude as possible, because he's so talented and at his best, adds plenty to our forward line. Gee he's battling though and running out of credits rapidly. I spotted him playing wing a few times yesterday, and always in the context of his direct opponent having acres of space or kicking a goal. Not done yet but he'd want to put in a few good games soon.
Smith - offers a bit. Maybe not a long-term solution but I like him.
Jetta - hasn't been missed as much as we feared perhaps, but gee it will be good to have the great man back, even if it's not until next year. No need to rush him back - he's a battering ram who puts his body on the line multiple times per week, and perhaps his career will be extended by having the rest of this year off.
C Wagner - has a bit of go. Better of the Wagners IMO, but that's not exactly a heavyweight bout.
Lockhart - great pickup. Got a bit of go about him. Surely a better option than Spargo.
J Wagner - I wrote him off after maybe round 5 this year but he's been ok since then, against all odds.
Smith - victim of criminal Misson mis-management?
Kielty - eh. Given enough time he might be a decent player, but I don't think he will get that much time.
 

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Cold Sober

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From an outsider Melbourne lost yesterday thru indecision [fumbling] when not under pressure, yet were still in the game late. Couldn't jag 2 in a row at the times that would've thrown the pressure back on Collingwood.
 

Cold Sober

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I rarely post here any more but I have some thoughts to share following yesterday's game, which I foolishly watched the replay of this morning (was working Monday). Some thoughts on the season as a whole as well. In fact it turns out I have offered my thoughts on all our players.

May - added plenty to defence. Words cannot describe how much of an upgrade he is on Oscar.
Jones - playing his role I guess.
Salem - not his best work... a little concussed? With our defence more solid I'd like to see him on the wing using his kicking skills to better effect going inside 50.
Harmes - has a crack but wow his disposal is poor. Surely he goes back to hard tagging roles on Fyfe and Neale after the bye.
Petracca - gets a lot of hate but he's going ok.
Lewis - he may be rapidly reaching the end of the road but I think he still has value to add - particularly now we have good defenders playing, so theoretically he won't get caught out so much.
Viney - going ok. I'm just happy to see him out there getting consistent game time. His best form will hopefully follow next year with good continuity.
Lever - improved throughout the game. Great to have him back at last.
Spargo - I've seen enough of the kid for now. He's just not big enough to be effective. How deflating when literally at the first bounce he lines up on the wing against Sidebottom. That's just not going to end well.
Brayshaw - back to some of his best form. Kicking looked better this week too I thought.
Gawn - what a man. Could not do more.
Oliver - gun player who is still learning to be the main man in midfield, and to take the responsibility that comes with that. As plenty have said, needs to handball backwards less, and kick more. Unlimited talent - use it lad!
Hibberd - dependable. Looking forward to more offence from him with May and Lever in the team.
Stretch - nope. Will forever be known as the player who taught Oliver how to be a professional. Other than that he's just not AFL standard.
K Kolo - hoping to see more of him on the wing this year. Good skills and good size - both things we're missing when we have the likes of Spargo and Stretch playing on the wing at times.
Frost - I like the lad and we missed him and his pace yesterday. Looking forward to see what he can bring when he's no longer our best tall defender.
Melksham - really missing his exquisite kicking.
Hannan - improved through the game yesterday as he found the pace. Will be an asset in the second half of the year if he stays fit.
Preuss - get the big man in! I know there are 'structural' considerations but surely we would look more potent up forward with this absolute man mountain playing, and occupying a big defender. Particularly important against Brisbane in a couple weeks - Andrews is a 200cm gun and will carve us up if he doesn't have to play on Preuss.
VDB - who knows? Important in the rare times when he's fit.
JKH - I've tried to be optimistic with this guy and I thought he was ok against the Crows except for his kicking, but he's probably just not up to it.
T McDonald - wow what a fall. Injured? Hampered? Out of confidence? All of the above? It's time that he was either dropped to Casey, or played on the wing where perhaps he can play with some freedom and get his hands on the ball a bit.
Weid - improved through the game yesterday. Keep him in the team all year - hopefully with better delivery, and better support from McDonald/Preuss taking the best defender. Please for the love of all things sacred don't play Weid/Smith together without TMc/Preuss - opposition defences will have a field day.
Oscar - nope. Done.
Hunt - enjoying his work forward.
ANB - limited player, but you know what you get. Surely a better option than Spargo and Garlett.
Fristch - not his best work yesterday. I'd like to see him further up the ground, similar to Salem.
Baker - huge potential. Likely type. Keep playing him.
Hore - what a pickup. Kicking is a bit ropey at times but that's quite alright.
Petty - improved on his horror-show first game last year, so that's something. Worth persisting with for now.
Garlett - I've been keen to give old Jeffy as much latitude as possible, because he's so talented and at his best, adds plenty to our forward line. Gee he's battling though and running out of credits rapidly. I spotted him playing wing a few times yesterday, and always in the context of his direct opponent having acres of space or kicking a goal. Not done yet but he'd want to put in a few good games soon.
Smith - offers a bit. Maybe not a long-term solution but I like him.
Jetta - hasn't been missed as much as we feared perhaps, but gee it will be good to have the great man back, even if it's not until next year. No need to rush him back - he's a battering ram who puts his body on the line multiple times per week, and perhaps his career will be extended by having the rest of this year off.
C Wagner - has a bit of go. Better of the Wagners IMO, but that's not exactly a heavyweight bout.
Lockhart - great pickup. Got a bit of go about him. Surely a better option than Spargo.
J Wagner - I wrote him off after maybe round 5 this year but he's been ok since then, against all odds.
Smith - victim of criminal Misson mis-management?
Kielty - eh. Given enough time he might be a decent player, but I don't think he will get that much time.
You should be in the box, Spot on summary. Need to get you a job at Essendon or the next coach of Caarrlton.
 

Billy Bob65

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Commiserations on the loss.

Here are the midfield frequency stats from the game. If haven't seen one of these posts before, this is an overall summary of how often your players were lining up as one of the 5 mids at bounces.

Overall Summary - 24

Harmes 20
Jones 18 (17w, 1i)
Baker 18 wing
Oliver 17
Brayshaw 15
Viney 15
Hunt 6 wing
Spargo 4 wing
Petracca 4
Garlett 3 wing

Rucks:
Gawn 22
T.McDonald 1
Weideman 1

1st Half - 9

Harmes 7
Baker 7 wing
Viney 7
Oliver 6
Jones 6 (5w, 1i)
Brayshaw 4
Spargo 4 wing
Hunt 2 wing
Petracca 2

Gawn 8
T.McDonald 1

2nd Half - 15

Harmes 13
Jones 12 wing
Baker 11 wing
Oliver 11
Brayshaw 11
Viney 8
Hunt 4 wing
Garlett 3 wing
Petracca 2

Gawn 14
Weideman 1

Notes:

- All of Spargo's starts were in the 1st; all of Garlett's rotations came in the 3rd.
- I've seen players ejected from the midfield rotation at 1/2 time, or been booted from one midfield role (wing/inside) to the other after 1/4 time to give a player the chance to redeem themselves, but this is the first time in analysed games where a player (Spargo) hasn't been injured and been removed from the midfield mix after only a quarter.
- Hunt didn't have a rotation in the first but was used for the other 3 terms
 

Crusty Demon

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Harmes is our best kick, so don’t be lump him in with the others.

Melkshan played in the midfield against the tigers didn’t really take note of games after that.

You need to find the balance, you can’t just have all good kicks in the midfield because then you loose your ability to win the stoppage. The issues is 3 of our 4 main mids are not just bad kicks, they are our worst kicks.

FYI we won 16 centre clearances to 6 yesterday. We scored 0.3 to Collingwood 2.2
No way Harmes is our best kicks. He's one of the better kicks, but he's not the best. Salem, Melksham and Fritsch are better IMO. But we clearly need more players who can hit a target on a consistent basis. I hope we see some experimenting at centre bounces from here to the end of the season.
 

Tempy Tiger

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Spot on.

'Our brand' of football (aka Melbourne 2018) is dead. It had a short run of success during 2018 off the back of our manic pressure, but it obvious to everyone (except perhaps the coaching staff...) that it will not lead to success. You get found out quickly in AFL these days. Opposition know that they can prey on our poor skill execution and decision making, and pick us off on the rebound. If the manic pressure drops off, then the outcome is even worse.

We seem to be able to win the ball. We need to learn to control the tempo of games so we actually do something fruitful with it.

Winning football games isn't about having a particular 'brand'. It's about having a coaching group and playing list with a sufficient amount of aptitude to keep adjusting (and then being able to implement) the game plan to stay ahead of the competition.

We've fallen a long way behind in the space of 6 months.

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Plus playing a physical, combative brand is tough on the playing list. You don’t want every possession to be a hard ball get. Life is pretty tough as a MFC baller.
 

ponsdale

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Notes:

- All of Spargo's starts were in the 1st; all of Garlett's rotations came in the 3rd.
- I've seen players ejected from the midfield rotation at 1/2 time, or been booted from one midfield role (wing/inside) to the other after 1/4 time to give a player the chance to redeem themselves, but this is the first time in analysed games where a player (Spargo) hasn't been injured and been removed from the midfield mix after only a quarter.
- Hunt didn't have a rotation in the first but was used for the other 3 terms
Interesting insights.

Spargo starting on the wing was a coaching mistake. Hopefully we never do it again.
 

saj_21

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No way Harmes is our best kicks. He's one of the better kicks, but he's not the best. Salem, Melksham and Fritsch are better IMO. But we clearly need more players who can hit a target on a consistent basis. I hope we see some experimenting at centre bounces from here to the end of the season.
Should of clarified i was talking the best kicks of our mids. Harmes rates highest of any player on our list of kick retention inside 50.

Agree Salem is one of our best.

Melksham is our best kick full stop but injuries has probably affected his stats this year

Fritsch' kicking has been off this year.

In saying that i still would rate Harmes in our top 6 kickers....Jetta is a safe but reliable kick, Hibberd and May look the goods out of the backline.
 
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Interestingly, you have to factor in HOW these players take their kicks, rather than just the technical skill of the player. Slow inside midfielders will generally be kicking inside 50 under a lot of pressure, from within the contest, or from a repeat entry when our whole team is inside the 50. A player like Harmes is great at running with the ball and has a decent sidestep/fend off that gives him time and space. He also runs very hard to get into space, which is why I would think he'd have a higher retention rate this year compared to a Viney who very rarely gets on the end of a fast break into space. It's much, much easier to kick inside 50 when the forward you're kicking to has the whole 50 to themselves and you've bought yourself some time to hit the pass as you've just fended a bloke off. Harmes is also quite deft at weighting his passes and is great at kicking to a lead. I can picture many cases where on a fast break we've gone through melksham at true CHF 80m out and hes been able to kick it inside 50 with 1 or 2 players leading. Hes also a lovely kick of the footy too, which is probably why we always give the ball to him. Those kick retention rate stats on their own without a good knowledge of the team can be misleading
 
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Great discussion re: kicking but how sad that so much time is spent on who can kick and who can’t kick. A multi billion dollar sport where kicking is the basic skill (ie. football), and we are struggling to find more than a handful of quality exponents of the craft amongst guys earning $400k plus per year and are full time sportsmen.
 

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I guess we traded both Watts and Hogan who were lovely field kicks - interesting that we trade the talented, troubled players and have a team of low skill, competitor types. That's why I think it's so important we properly develop Trac instead of trading him off, we need a player of his talent to become a top 20 player in the AFL. I still think he can make a dusty type emergence if he really wants it
 
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Our midfield is far to one dimensional;

As much as i love Oliver he gets rid of the ball way to quickly and just creates pressure and panic. Greg Williams was a terrific handballer but because he put blokes into a better position than himself
Viney - his kicking way below afl standard and just has tunnel vision, once again not a great handballer when he needs to be.
Brayshaw - likes to kick but far to often turns it over, he looks better when he kicks short

Harmes - is our only true well rounded mid, a good kick and handball. Picks the right times to go long and short.

The herald sun reported yesterday our 3 works kicks inside 50 are brayshaw oliver and viney, if they arent kicking well inside 50 they are kicking well anywhere else

Despite the hype around 'choas" footy in the finals last year this is the exact opposite of how we should be playing, we are no. 18 in the AFL for marks and no.1 for playing on. We have no ability to control the tempo of a game, the faster we move the ball the more susceptible we are to being scored out the back.

As soon as the ball leaves the contested area we have no ability to defend and even if the opposition turn it over, we don't have the skill to punish them on the counter attack.

We desperately need to improve winning the ground balls inside 50, in fact just winning some easier footy around the ground
.
spot on. email the club
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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This season has bored me to tears honestly, thats at least 4 times this year I've said "**** this" before half time and turned the tv off, didn't even have any interest in checking the scores after turning it off either, found out the scores on the way to work Tuesday. We are just so **** to watch right now.

Perhaps i feel this way more so than other years because we played some attractive footy the past two seasons. I dunno, im just glad the world cup, NBA finals and NFL is getting back into the swing of things. So over this year, not even angry any more, the whole club is just a bore. Can't remember a time I've been this disinterested in AFL.
 
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Gysberts2Bate

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I rarely post here any more but I have some thoughts to share following yesterday's game, which I foolishly watched the replay of this morning (was working Monday). Some thoughts on the season as a whole as well. In fact it turns out I have offered my thoughts on all our players.

May - added plenty to defence. Words cannot describe how much of an upgrade he is on Oscar.
Jones - playing his role I guess.
Salem - not his best work... a little concussed? With our defence more solid I'd like to see him on the wing using his kicking skills to better effect going inside 50.
Harmes - has a crack but wow his disposal is poor. Surely he goes back to hard tagging roles on Fyfe and Neale after the bye.
Petracca - gets a lot of hate but he's going ok.
Lewis - he may be rapidly reaching the end of the road but I think he still has value to add - particularly now we have good defenders playing, so theoretically he won't get caught out so much.
Viney - going ok. I'm just happy to see him out there getting consistent game time. His best form will hopefully follow next year with good continuity.
Lever - improved throughout the game. Great to have him back at last.
Spargo - I've seen enough of the kid for now. He's just not big enough to be effective. How deflating when literally at the first bounce he lines up on the wing against Sidebottom. That's just not going to end well.
Brayshaw - back to some of his best form. Kicking looked better this week too I thought.
Gawn - what a man. Could not do more.
Oliver - gun player who is still learning to be the main man in midfield, and to take the responsibility that comes with that. As plenty have said, needs to handball backwards less, and kick more. Unlimited talent - use it lad!
Hibberd - dependable. Looking forward to more offence from him with May and Lever in the team.
Stretch - nope. Will forever be known as the player who taught Oliver how to be a professional. Other than that he's just not AFL standard.
K Kolo - hoping to see more of him on the wing this year. Good skills and good size - both things we're missing when we have the likes of Spargo and Stretch playing on the wing at times.
Frost - I like the lad and we missed him and his pace yesterday. Looking forward to see what he can bring when he's no longer our best tall defender.
Melksham - really missing his exquisite kicking.
Hannan - improved through the game yesterday as he found the pace. Will be an asset in the second half of the year if he stays fit.
Preuss - get the big man in! I know there are 'structural' considerations but surely we would look more potent up forward with this absolute man mountain playing, and occupying a big defender. Particularly important against Brisbane in a couple weeks - Andrews is a 200cm gun and will carve us up if he doesn't have to play on Preuss.
VDB - who knows? Important in the rare times when he's fit.
JKH - I've tried to be optimistic with this guy and I thought he was ok against the Crows except for his kicking, but he's probably just not up to it.
T McDonald - wow what a fall. Injured? Hampered? Out of confidence? All of the above? It's time that he was either dropped to Casey, or played on the wing where perhaps he can play with some freedom and get his hands on the ball a bit.
Weid - improved through the game yesterday. Keep him in the team all year - hopefully with better delivery, and better support from McDonald/Preuss taking the best defender. Please for the love of all things sacred don't play Weid/Smith together without TMc/Preuss - opposition defences will have a field day.
Oscar - nope. Done.
Hunt - enjoying his work forward.
ANB - limited player, but you know what you get. Surely a better option than Spargo and Garlett.
Fristch - not his best work yesterday. I'd like to see him further up the ground, similar to Salem.
Baker - huge potential. Likely type. Keep playing him.
Hore - what a pickup. Kicking is a bit ropey at times but that's quite alright.
Petty - improved on his horror-show first game last year, so that's something. Worth persisting with for now.
Garlett - I've been keen to give old Jeffy as much latitude as possible, because he's so talented and at his best, adds plenty to our forward line. Gee he's battling though and running out of credits rapidly. I spotted him playing wing a few times yesterday, and always in the context of his direct opponent having acres of space or kicking a goal. Not done yet but he'd want to put in a few good games soon.
Smith - offers a bit. Maybe not a long-term solution but I like him.
Jetta - hasn't been missed as much as we feared perhaps, but gee it will be good to have the great man back, even if it's not until next year. No need to rush him back - he's a battering ram who puts his body on the line multiple times per week, and perhaps his career will be extended by having the rest of this year off.
C Wagner - has a bit of go. Better of the Wagners IMO, but that's not exactly a heavyweight bout.
Lockhart - great pickup. Got a bit of go about him. Surely a better option than Spargo.
J Wagner - I wrote him off after maybe round 5 this year but he's been ok since then, against all odds.
Smith - victim of criminal Misson mis-management?
Kielty - eh. Given enough time he might be a decent player, but I don't think he will get that much time.
Agree with all of this except maybe Harmes. This board is poorer without your regular input, CJ!
 
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