Review Dees v West Horsham Poort - the Good, Bady & Fugly

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Topkent said:
It boggles my mind that you have an elite inside midfield apparently, yet you need to stack the team with inside mids.
Isn't the point of having elite mids that they can do that job on their own?
I'd legit love to see how we played with only Oliver Viney and Petracca in the team as inside players and rotated blokes like Langdon, Hunt, Salem etc through the middle.

You don't get an elite key forward and then surround him with 7 other key forwards, you surround him with players that compliment him not inhibit him.
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Seeing Viney, Oliver and Sparrow all crack in and try to win the same clearance was mind boggling.

How about, given we have the best tap ruckman in the game, we tap it to Oliver and the other two mids, maybe ones that can KICK, hang off the clearance and wait for the releasing handball? Put Salem in there. Put Hannan in there. Put Lockhart in there. Who cares. We don't need 3 mids all standing AT Gawn's feet. This is why I say I get excited when I see Bennell lagging off a contest because it shows me he's actually TRUSTING his team mate to win the ball and is thinking about the NEXT play. Watch Richmond play against WBD. They are masters of using space to their advantage and moving the ball. Barely an inside mid in the team. All mid sized, skilled running players. They trust the guy next to them to win it, then use the space to move the ball aggresively and disrupt the other team's defense/zone/web.
 
A11dAtP0w3R said:
Should have traded him before we exposed his kicking



Thats exactly the attitude our players have. Who cares? Game was over at quarter time.

I care. Coz limp dick performances like that lead to more. When the going gets tough, we wave the white flag.
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This feels more and more like the last days of Dean Baileys time at the club, we keep hearing about the love the players have for Goodwin but all available evidence would suggest they know he is a fraud as much as we do, this could get very ugly
 
Good: In a time or social unrest, pandemics and relentless change - the Demons and their performance are a comforting constant
 

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Demon bhoy said:
This feels more and more like the last days of Dean Baileys time at the club, we keep hearing about the love the players have for Goodwin but all available evidence would suggest they know he is a fraud as much as we do, this could get very ugly
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Yep, like I said on the previous page, last night had a bailey ball and 186 stench about it.

Something's happened for them to put in a performance like that, Goody may have lost them. Even when we were playing s**t footy earlier in the year you could see effort from all the team. Last night had none. Players playing for themselves, zero hussle defensively or for when a teammate had the ball.

Wouldn't be surprised to see the arse completely fall out from here at all, if it didn't already in 2019. Crows could defientley beat us. They have been putting in effort of late, and thats sometimes all you need to do to beat Melbourne.
 
The Goodwin era has definitely been my least enjoyable as a fan despite actually winning a couple of finals. I turn 31 this year for context, obviously been through the up and down years under Daniher, and the club near folding under Neeld.

The heartbreak of narrowly missing finals in 2017, regular close losses against good sides, as well as the eventual decline of the side as a whole last season - just been too much.

I think when you actually start having expectations of a side, you open yourself up to the highest feeling of disappointment as a supporter.
 
Ok, my turn for anyone who can be bothered reading. This is cathartic for me so it needs to happen, but where to even start...

For me that was the worst I've personally seen us play in a decade. Sure, I haven't watched every game, but given the number of Z grade performances we've turned in over a decade, that is still saying something I think.

The game plan:
I am honestly so lost on what the "game plan" is. Do teams even have game plans or is it all a ruse to give coaches/players something to talk about post match eg. "We stuck to our game plan and got the result" or more commonly for us "We went away from our game plan and didn't get the result we were after." It seems to me like our team is obsessed with handballing backwards in the hope that one of our half backers might be open enough to bomb it long down the line on the boundary (and about 10m further on than from where the first handball starts). It's like the reverse Richmond game plan. I don't find their game style tasteful but geez it works for them annoyingly. Who would've thought rolling the ball towards the goal in numbers would get results???

The contest/coalface:
I don't get contested possessions. Some stats nerd a few years ago mentioned that 70% of teams who win contested ball win the game or something like that. Likewise inside 50s. Channel 7 were barring up at half time over how we were almost matching them with contested possessions and inside 50s. What a pointless and lazy way of looking at the stats. Just watching the game, you had no way of telling we were actually matching them in this regard, because we were so far off being competitive. Even disposal efficiency is pointless. 5m handballs may technically hit a target but that's effing useless when it's just passing the buck to the next sucker. What I saw in the contest was a mess. A lot of players losing their feet and not sticking tackles. Any ball we won was dirty. Same old story as well of having players sucked into the contest yet that extra number counting for SFA once it spilled out to Port. Can't remember the quarter but there was one footage where literally four Port players were waltzing the ball up the near wing without any Demon in frame (I think our one player who had a chance to impact slipped over 3 seconds before the ball even arrived) and running the ball into an open 50. It wasn't even a training session; it was the warm up jog around the oval before you start the session.
To lose the tackle count by so much is inexcusable. Weak.

The game in general:
Flat footed, or worse, shuffling backwards. Biomechanically, that makes it near impossible to execute any kick or handball. Of course, even in the rare times we had time and space we butchered it anyway. Comically bad.
Actually got worse in the second half in terms of competitiveness, but scoreline flattered us. We got far less of the ball which gave us far less chances to turn the ball over for them.
Did anyone else notice that they were almost always first to the drop of a ball at any pack? Our defenders have such little confidence in each other that we often had four players go up and none stay down. They rarely had two keys go up in a pack at any one time. They weren't necessarily hitting lace out kicks inside 50 either, but once it hit the deck they were always there. Likewise in our 50, no-one at the drop of the ball. If Gawn doesn't mark the ball we're stuffed. Actually, even when he does mark it we're stuffed, because A) He has to kick the ball and B) He can't kick it to himself up the line.

Port:
A good team, maybe (no disrespect), but they didn't need to get out of second gear. Why should they? They faced no pressure whatsoever. They also showed every team how to smash us. They never let us get "out" which I feel is how we often get scores, and they immediately harassed the man with the ball with multiple pressure players. They knew we can't execute skills under even moderate pressure. Despite seemingly having extra players around the ball to pressure, they also seemed to have an extra defender for that rare time we'd clear the ball out of the stoppage. Teams know to just pressure enough until we turn it over and then they roll and go for easy goals.
That, and they just worked harder.

The AFL:
This is no excuse for Melb, but we looked lethargic playing after a 4 day break. If the AFL is already worried about it's brand and the style of games before this 20 game "bonanza" then they are in for a rude shock come the end of this period.

And for good measure, the umps were atrocious. Don't give me the usual sh$t about how it's p$ssweak to blame the umps. I'm not blaming them for that shambles of a game from us. But they were woeful. They just added insult to injury. Some of the weakest frees I've seen went against us, often resulting directly in goals. One of those nights where nothing went right one bit, with the exception of no injuries.

Next game:
Bennell and Tomlinson should come back in at the very least. 3 talls never again.
 
Allan Richardson coming on the screen at 3/4 time highlighting Sparrow's smother or whatever as something to hang our hat on and then Jobe Watson saying we can "win the quarter, without winning it on the scoreboard" added insult to injury. Just idiotic.

Our contested work was s**t, but to think this is the reason we were losing and not the utter lack of structure and having 5-6 players within 5 m of each other at every contest is astounding. So many in the AFL industry are idiots. We have a coaching panel full of them. We need a full clean out.
 
Good: Lockhart did some nice things early on. Jackson's mullet. The passage of play with the 10 handballs leading to a Weid goal was exciting.

Bad: Picketts decision making and disposal. He can do better. Was a s**t night to play forward.

May needs to be banned from kicking in to the same spot everytime.

Ugly: Everything else. Especially our mids

Fugly: Oliver's hair. I swear the worst his hair looks is proportional to how bad he plays.
 
They should show everyone in the team Viney's clearance and bullet kick inside 50 to a leading forward (Weid). He's not the most skilled player in the team, but he hit a pass to a leading forward and didn't bomb it long to nobody, we kicked a goal from it too. Simple.
 
AmericanAFL said:
I don’t know what the cut thread is but this thread has been 10 times more entertaining than the game.
Click to expand...

Certified Legendary Thread - The Cut

Good practice, kids. Now its time for the easiest part of any coach’s job. The cuts. Although I wasn’t able to cut everyone I wanted to, I have cut a lot of you. Brent is cut. Colin S. is cut. Mark, you’re gone. Brad, I like your hussle [Brad smiles]. Thats why it was so hard to cut...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com
 
Charlie_s123 said:
Straight to Ugly: Players standing still, waiting for the handball, no movement upfield, no one front and centre, falling off tackles, missing kicks, missing handballs, missing set shots, not attacking the ball in the marking contest, the gameplan (or lack thereof) ... the umpiring, selecting T-mac, the commentary ...

The biggest steaming pile of sh*t of a game of seen from the Dees in, well not all that long honestly, I'm actually pretty used to it, but fu** it still ******* pisses me off like nothing else ...

View attachment 923438
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That pretty much covers it all. I'd just add the constant cut-shots to Goodwin standing on the sidelines with that deadpan expression on his face. I swear I see far more intelligence shining out through the eyes of my dog.
 

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I have a theory - and hear me out.

I fully believe that Simon is having some sort of mental/neurological breakdown.
Having seen this happen to someone in my life before, I'm suspect that there is something going with him that's similar to what I saw.

Take literally any press conference or interview or simply just any time he knows he's on camera. He just always looks like he's about to erupt in tears.
Now you could perhaps argue that this is simply his normal "look" but go back and watch interviews with him when under Roos (or for a while after), or any from his playing career. Never anything like this back then.

He simply has something else going on behind those eyes.

Now my theory is that he is suffering from some sort of mental breakdown or an overload of excessive stress, and I fully believe the club and high up officials know this.

But unfortunately (only from the sense of removing him while he deals with it) in the current day and age, it is extremely risky to remove someone who is struggling with mental issues. The only acceptable response is 100% support.

So I believe the club is absolutely hamstrung by this. They can't remove him due to the visual of punishing someone who is battling mental health issues, and also the added risk of adding to his woes (and the real potential consequences of that).

Which leaves them with only one actual option - simply accept it and hope he improves. Unless he voluntarily steps down himself, I cannot see any other way he could be replaced (temporarily or otherwise).

Now I may be waay off the mark, but to me all the tell tale signs are there. The lack of emotion/emotional response, the welling up of his eyes and his constant inability to front the media and cameras without looking like he's about to break down in tears.

Maybe the Dees themselves have done it to him, but regardless of why, I reckon there's a possibility this is occurring and we are simply caught between a rock and a hard place.

If I'm wrong, good for Simon, and the question then falls on our CEO and co as to whether they truly believe he can lead us to a grand final?

If they are honest with themselves, they should already know that answer. Which leads to the obvious follow up question - why continue?
 
A11dAtP0w3R said:
Yep, like I said on the previous page, last night had a bailey ball and 186 stench about it.

Something's happened for them to put in a performance like that, Goody may have lost them. Even when we were playing sh*t footy earlier in the year you could see effort from all the team. Last night had none. Players playing for themselves, zero hussle defensively or for when a teammate had the ball.

Wouldn't be surprised to see the arse completely fall out from here at all, if it didn't already in 2019. Crows could defientley beat us. They have been putting in effort of late, and thats sometimes all you need to do to beat Melbourne.
Click to expand...

This was the most concerning thing I noticed last night. Players were playing for themselves. A lot of guys were trying stupid individual heroics and almost none of them were playing for the team. They were just out to save face on an individual level.
 
ptrg said:
I have a theory - and hear me out.

I fully believe that Simon is having some sort of mental/neurological breakdown.
Having seen this happen to someone in my life before, I'm suspect that there is something going with him that's similar to what I saw.

Take literally any press conference or interview or simply just any time he knows he's on camera. He just always looks like he's about to erupt in tears.
Now you could perhaps argue that this is simply his normal "look" but go back and watch interviews with him when under Roos (or for a while after), or any from his playing career. Never anything like this back then.

He simply has something else going on behind those eyes.

Now my theory is that he is suffering from some sort of mental breakdown or an overload of excessive stress, and I fully believe the club and high up officials know this.

But unfortunately (only from the sense of removing him while he deals with it) in the current day and age, it is extremely risky to remove someone who is struggling with mental issues. The only acceptable response is 100% support.

So I believe the club is absolutely hamstrung by this. They can't remove him due to the visual of punishing someone who is battling mental health issues, and also the added risk of adding to his woes (and the real potential consequences of that).

Which leaves them with only one actual option - simply accept it and hope he improves. Unless he voluntarily steps down himself, I cannot see any other way he could be replaced (temporarily or otherwise).

Now I may be waay off the mark, but to me all the tell tale signs are there. The lack of emotion/emotional response, the welling up of his eyes and his constant inability to front the media and cameras without looking like he's about to break down in tears.

Maybe the Dees themselves have done it to him, but regardless of why, I reckon there's a possibility this is occurring and we are simply caught between a rock and a hard place.

If I'm wrong, good for Simon, and the question then falls on our CEO and co as to whether they truly believe he can lead us to a grand final?

If they are honest with themselves, they should already know that answer. Which leads to the obvious follow up question - why continue?
Click to expand...

He did pass out during an interview last year, definitely is a man under pressure. I'm open to all of the most arcane theories about Crazy Goody
 
ptrg said:
I have a theory - and hear me out.

I fully believe that Simon is having some sort of mental/neurological breakdown.
Having seen this happen to someone in my life before, I'm suspect that there is something going with him that's similar to what I saw.

Take literally any press conference or interview or simply just any time he knows he's on camera. He just always looks like he's about to erupt in tears.
Now you could perhaps argue that this is simply his normal "look" but go back and watch interviews with him when under Roos (or for a while after), or any from his playing career. Never anything like this back then.

He simply has something else going on behind those eyes.

Now my theory is that he is suffering from some sort of mental breakdown or an overload of excessive stress, and I fully believe the club and high up officials know this.

But unfortunately (only from the sense of removing him while he deals with it) in the current day and age, it is extremely risky to remove someone who is struggling with mental issues. The only acceptable response is 100% support.

So I believe the club is absolutely hamstrung by this. They can't remove him due to the visual of punishing someone who is battling mental health issues, and also the added risk of adding to his woes (and the real potential consequences of that).

Which leaves them with only one actual option - simply accept it and hope he improves. Unless he voluntarily steps down himself, I cannot see any other way he could be replaced (temporarily or otherwise).

Now I may be waay off the mark, but to me all the tell tale signs are there. The lack of emotion/emotional response, the welling up of his eyes and his constant inability to front the media and cameras without looking like he's about to break down in tears.

Maybe the Dees themselves have done it to him, but regardless of why, I reckon there's a possibility this is occurring and we are simply caught between a rock and a hard place.

If I'm wrong, good for Simon, and the question then falls on our CEO and co as to whether they truly believe he can lead us to a grand final?

If they are honest with themselves, they should already know that answer. Which leads to the obvious follow up question - why continue?
Click to expand...

I think you're right. The way he was doing the deep breathing before the post-match press conference started looked like someone suffering from some serious anxiety ... fight or flight stuff. Unfortunately it looks like he's been caught out of his depth and the club has no choice but to persist with him. Bad outcome for everyone.
 
Charlie_s123 said:
I think you're right. The way he was doing the deep breathing before the post-match press conference started looked like someone suffering from some serious anxiety ... fight or flight stuff. Unfortunately it looks like he's been caught out of his depth and the club has no choice but to persist with him. Bad outcome for everyone.
Click to expand...

Interesting you mention fight or flight, as more recently psychologists have inserted a third term "or freeze".
Fight is obvious and usually a desired response, flight is to run away, but they reckon the vast majority in critical events actually freeze. And that's clearly what he's doing during games and during media commitments.

But I stand by the belief that he is going through something significant behind the scenes and don't believe the club could possibly be unaware of it.
Good on them for supporting someone in that position if so, but geez it could do long term damage to the club (as if there wasn't enough)

Was saying to a mate today, I reckon the club is closer to folding than any time since the near-merger period with the Dawks.

We have zero onfield presence or brand, clearly sub zero culture, no real senior leadership outside of what Jones can provide, anecdotely kids are just not choosing to follow us, and most likely memberships will fall off a cliff next year.
Throw in the financial wasteland of Covid and we truly are in a critically bad position imo. Then consider the whispers of Petracca wanting out due to the lack of professionalism and culture and our one glimmer of hope could be close to gone.

In normal circumstances the board and CEO simply cannot wait to act - but like I said, if the above is correct, then their hands are effectively tied.
It would come down purely as to whether Goodwin chooses to step aside..
 
Call me old fashioned, but someone having a mental breakdown isn’t equipped to manage a professional sports team. If true, it would be for his own well being to be relieved of his duties so he can focus on treatment.
 
Was our worst performance since 2016, I thought, effortwise. Haven’t seen anything like it since losses to Essendon, Carlton and Geelong that year. Collingwood R23 2017 and Sydney R22 last year go close, but we also had a lot of injuries both times at the end of the season. Port game was just an abomination on all fronts with a fit list. Similar losses to GWS, St Kilda and Collingwood coming up I dare say.
 
ptrg said:
Interesting you mention fight or flight, as more recently psychologists have inserted a third term "or freeze".
Fight is obvious and usually a desired response, flight is to run away, but they reckon the vast majority in critical events actually freeze. And that's clearly what he's doing during games and during media commitments.

But I stand by the belief that he is going through something significant behind the scenes and don't believe the club could possibly be unaware of it.
Good on them for supporting someone in that position if so, but geez it could do long term damage to the club (as if there wasn't enough)

Was saying to a mate today, I reckon the club is closer to folding than any time since the near-merger period with the Dawks.

We have zero onfield presence or brand, clearly sub zero culture, no real senior leadership outside of what Jones can provide, anecdotely kids are just not choosing to follow us, and most likely memberships will fall off a cliff next year.
Throw in the financial wasteland of Covid and we truly are in a critically bad position imo. Then consider the whispers of Petracca wanting out due to the lack of professionalism and culture and our one glimmer of hope could be close to gone.

In normal circumstances the board and CEO simply cannot wait to act - but like I said, if the above is correct, then their hands are effectively tied.
It would come down purely as to whether Goodwin chooses to step aside..
Click to expand...

I can nearly fully buy into your diagnosis - it certainly seems that way, and he is clearly out of his depth. I hope fir the guy he turns it around, but one does really wonder after the last 6 years if the club can ever be saved. Would the Tasmanian club be called the Demons?

EDIT: Wanted to add I've seen it happen to quite a few people in my career (including myself a couple of times) when overwhelmed. I would say most (>90%) of people who experience this in a prolonged manner don't continue whatever the career was that put them in that state
 
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