'Defense' Minister David Johnson sinks his own boat.

[madmug]

Just another LNP gaffe thread. I was bewildered & disgusted by David Johnson's comment in the senate regards the ASC. 'He wouldnt trust them to build a canoe'!! It is beyond the pail to say such a stupid thing. Their are overuns in military projects around the world, let alone by the ASC.

The F35 development in the USA is way way behind & way way over budget, the HMS QE aircraft carrier went from 3.9billion pounds to 6.2billion pounds & doesnt yet have any aircraft! The new USS Gerald Ford Class of super carriers is also way over budget.

The reasons are they are dealing with new technologies at the cutting edge. They are not mass producing cars off an assembly line. The Hobart Class AWD are an adapted technology. They are bound to run into problems trying to fit new things together in a new boat. It was the same with the Collins class subs, which are now well regarded. One would think that ASC would have built up some experiences when building the Collins class. The Canberra class support ships have also had problems. Defense & BAE are again blaming each other.

Sure, If their are work practise inefficiencies then yes, fix them. But to slag off the whole organisation because you are a big fat pathetic politician with an ulterior motive, is just a disgrace. The public are not privy to what actually goes on in the plant that builds/repairs our naval assets. So without giving us that information it is not good enough to put s**t on a whole organisation.

 

[Gough]

'twas only a rhetorical flourish, move on people, nothing to see here.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Sinks his own boat. Nice work, madmug

 

[Gough]

Maybe Pyne could start another petition to help save SA jobs, it worked so well for him last time.

 

[Xsess]

Yes why on earth would a defence minister demand the best defence outcome from taxpayer $'s?

 

[Tasmaniac]

The sky is falling in!

Seriously, ASC struggled with the Collins Class boats (plenty of other problems too).

If we (actually the ASC) are going to build the next generation of subs here, then yes, ASC (including engineering/and management) really do need to pull their collective fingers out, giving them a verbal smack is fine, reminding everyone of our glorious history of cost over-runs and late delivery of major defence projects in Australia.

 

[Maggie5]

The sky is falling in!

Seriously, ASC struggled with the Collins Class boats (plenty of other problems too).

If we (actually the ASC) are going to build the next generation of subs here, then yes, ASC (including engineering/and management) really do need to pull their collective fingers out, giving them a verbal smack is fine, reminding everyone of our glorious history of cost over-runs and late delivery of major defence projects in Australia.

Then hopefully he will also speak out when the Americans blow out the cost of the F-35. Something like can't trust them to make a paper plane?

 

[madmug]

Yes why on earth would a defence minister demand the best defence outcome from taxpayer $'s?

The sky is falling in!

Seriously, ASC struggled with the Collins Class boats (plenty of other problems too).

If we (actually the ASC) are going to build the next generation of subs here, then yes, ASC (including engineering/and management) really do need to pull their collective fingers out, giving them a verbal smack is fine, reminding everyone of our glorious history of cost over-runs and late delivery of major defence projects in Australia.

Their are better ways to make a point, if you have one, than to just insult people in our Cowards castle.

As above, its not a problem isolated to Australia. Cost overuns are a common situation with such complicated equipment. If workplace issues are involved, then sort them, dont just bitch with cheap one liners. But just what is/are the problem? We really dont know.

 

[Gough]

Their are better ways to make a point, if you have one, than to just insult people in our Cowards castle.

As above, its not a problem isolated to Australia. Cost overuns are a common situation with such complicated equipment. If workplace issues are involved, then sort them, dont just bitch with cheap one liners. But just what is/are the problem? We really dont know.

Something, something Labor, something Gillard.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Who put Johnston in charge of the canoes?

 

[Belnakor]

Their are better ways to make a point, if you have one, than to just insult people in our Cowards castle.

As above, its not a problem isolated to Australia. Cost overuns are a common situation with such complicated equipment. If workplace issues are involved, then sort them, dont just bitch with cheap one liners. But just what is/are the problem? We really dont know.

complicated projects do finish on time. Simply saying that "common situation with such complicated equipment" is a complete cop out.

This is the companies core competency. if they can't finish projects on time then why are we using them.

 

[Taylor]

Every nation building their own versions of the same thing just leads to thousands of redundant hours and dollars wasted. Joint efforts of nations will result in better outcomes for all, what would we bring to the table?

We have allies, they make better things than we have. Buy the product from them.

The real issue here is that we don't produce anything of value here because a guy painting a boat grey wants to be paid $80,000 a year. (made up stat)

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Now that Johnson has apologised, I suggest ASC build him a canoe and dare him to take it out.

 

[little graham]

Every nation building their own versions of the same thing just leads to thousands of redundant hours and dollars wasted. Joint efforts of nations will result in better outcomes for all, what would we bring to the table?

We have allies, they make better things than we have. Buy the product from them.

To build ships you need to educate poor people, provide them healthcare, infrastructure and an escape (holiday/arts/festivals). Poor people tend to join unions. These things all build a strong labor party. Strong labor parties try and make the country self sufficient,improve health and education for all, spread the wealth as evenly as possible.

You learn this if you have a good political science lecturer.

The 60's movement throughout the world was a direct result of educated men and women rearing their children in such away, rejecting the very war that lead them to be educated. When you have war, you have to train engineers, doctors ect on mass. Everyone has some sort of employment, role in society. Gov has to look after them if they're going to be efficient in the war machine. You end up with healthy people making healthy lifestyle choices, rearing healthier children.

Its civil war.

South Australia is an amazing state that has lead this country socially in many areas. This is the peoples state and I dare suggest its contributions to modern humanity are near unrivaled. Currently we're being put threw the ringer by this fascist federal gov, partly so the mining companies have an easier time raping our resources. We'd make more stringent agreements if we're not held back by the feds in other areas.

It also effects our ability to go 100 % renwables, which we're aiming for and ahead of schedule. This fed gov is anti renewables because of Palmer and reinhart. We have half of all the countries renewables.




Education changes the world.

 

[Taylor]

To build ships you need to educate poor people, provide them healthcare, infrastructure and an escape (holiday/arts/festivals). Poor people tend to join unions. These things all build a strong labor party. Strong labor parties try and make the country self sufficient,improve health and education for all, spread the wealth as evenly as possible.

You learn this if you have a good political science lecturer.

The 60's movement throughout the world was a direct result of educated men and women rearing their children in such away, rejecting the very war that lead them to be educated. When you have war, you have to train engineers, doctors ect on mass. Everyone has some sort of employment, role in society. Gov has to look after them if they're going to be efficient in the war machine. You end up with healthy people making healthy lifestyle choices, rearing healthier children.

Its civil war.

South Australia is an amazing state that has lead this country socially in many areas. This is the peoples state and I dare suggest its contributions to modern humanity are near unrivaled. Currently we're being put threw the ringer by this fascist federal gov, partly so the mining companies have an easier time raping our resources. We'd make more stringent agreements if we're not held back by the feds in other areas.

It also effects our ability to go 100 % renwables, which we're aiming for and ahead of schedule. This fed gov is anti renewables because of Palmer and reinhart. We have half of all the countries renewables.




Education changes the world.

If you're right about poor people joining unions, have the unions shot themselves in the foot by lifting their members to a middle class group?

The tradies in WA are very well paid now.

 

[little graham]

Who put Johnston in charge of the canoes?

In mt barker, the thickness of the bark is around 4 inches. Evidently as thick as anywhere. The permangk would make canoes from these trees and then steer them down the tributaries off the mount lofty ranges to the mob that lived at whats now is Goowla and the Murray mouth. This has been happening for a few thousand years.

Proof that aboriginals had free trade agreements long before most. Proof ship building in SA has been a thriving industry for thousands of years.

The mob at goolwa was the biggest mob in all the lands pre 1788 , as result of the abundance of food and fresh water. With the canoos they would catch all sorts of fish, then trade those fish. Those cannoos built in the Adelaide hills, resulted in the kaurna(adelaide plains) being able to produce fire all year around. Flint form down the south east, washed up on beaches, would pass threw 3 tribes before reaching them. That cannoo building skill of the permangk, came form the kimberly a few thousand years ago. Permangk were strong into witch craft and had to leave the Kimberly. Made thier home in the mount lofty ranges. Previously those hills were left unoccupied because it is the burial ground of one of the creators in the dreamtime stories.

With death theirs life.

You can do alot with a canoo. More than Johnston would ever realise.

 

[madmug]

If you're right about poor people joining unions, have the unions shot themselves in the foot by lifting their members to a middle class group?

The tradies in WA are very well paid now.

Well paid mining workers causes shortages in other regions/areas of the economy. Its called supply & demand, so wages go up to attract or keep them from leaving.
I'm surprised the LNP supporters on here would not support the workings on supply & demand for labor. Or is it just a 'conservative' approach that its better to keep the working class poor & hungry for their business mates?

Wouldnt we be better off training more tradies & engineers? It is a pity that so many businesses now wont take apprentices. They are happy for the tax payer to train then & take the benefits at the end.

Its a funny old world, not.

 

[Floor Pie]

Yes why on earth would a defence minister demand the best defence outcome from taxpayer $'s?

He should.
But he should be consistent, and demand it from everyone.

And there is no reason for him to be so disparaging towards an Australian market.

I understand that with the new FTA, that we have sold our arse. But that doesn't mean that we need to devalue Australian assets as well.

 

[little graham]

If you're right about poor people joining unions, have the unions shot themselves in the foot by lifting their members to a middle class group?

The tradies in WA are very well paid now.

Tradies teach their kids how to build s**t, do their own home maintenance, do their friends ect. There's always positives in educating people, always negatives as well.




Sometimes when you help someone, if you succeed, you become redundant.

 

[Taylor]

He should.
But he should be consistent, and demand it from everyone.

And there is no reason for him to be so disparaging towards an Australian market.

I understand that with the new FTA, that we have sold our arse. But that doesn't mean that we need to devalue Australian assets as well.

The government took the same attitude to the car industry.

The next will be steel I guess.

Cutting off the struggling business.

 

[Floor Pie]

The government took the same attitude to the car industry.

The next will be steel I guess.

Cutting off the struggling business.

I don't know if you are pro or con.

Basically, you cannot defend our stance on the JSF, and defend the comments on the ASC.

Adults in Charge....

 

[JeffDunne]

A convenient distraction from what we should be debating . . . why do we need submarines at all?

 

[Taylor]

Well paid mining workers causes shortages in other regions/areas of the economy. Its called supply & demand, so wages go up to attract or keep them from leaving.
I'm surprised the LNP supporters on here would not support the workings on supply & demand for labor. Or is it just a 'conservative' approach that its better to keep the working class poor & hungry for their business mates?

Wouldnt we be better off training more tradies & engineers? It is a pity that so many businesses now wont take apprentices. They are happy for the tax payer to train then & take the benefits at the end.

Its a funny old world, not.

A business isn't operating to serve as charity for the community, the average time in a job now is under 5 years and any trainee that ends up with a qualification spends a significant period of that training time costing money to their employer. After that period, which will obviously be different for every job, there is a window where the trained up employee is making money but hasn't yet left. That's where a business tries to get return on the years prior. Let's pretend that it costs $40,000 a year for two years training before the apprentice is able to be profitable, the business' competitor can offer the apprentice a $40,000 payrise (half the cost of training) and poach them on a great deal for the apprentice.

Everyone wins except the person training.

So that's why nobody wants to.

 

[Taylor]

I don't know if you are pro or con.

Basically, you cannot defend our stance on the JSF, and defend the comments on the ASC.

Adults in Charge....

I'm not trying to take a side on it, I just want the best deal for Australia/Earth in general but I don't have all the information to take a side one way or another.

I was noting that the government propping up of business is rolling back and those businesses are dropping off the scene because of it.

We can't compete because what we make isn't uniquely desirable and what is unique can't compete on value to the rest of the world.

 

[LennyStarkiller]

I bring you the latest ASC Warship/Canoe!