Mega Thread Delist/Trade/Draft Super-mega-ultrathread

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Masto

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I'm not blowing smoke up anyone's arse. I'm simply pointing out the ridiculous position that you've taken.
And what position is that? That we shouldn't have drafted Newman and our recruiting sucks? Don't you want to draft Marlon Pickett? Who is really the one taking a ridiculous position?
 

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Miguel Sanchez

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And what position is that? That we shouldn't have drafted Newman and our recruiting sucks? Don't you want to draft Marlon Pickett? Who is really the one taking a ridiculous position?
When have I ever, ever mentioned Marlon Pickett?

Your ridiculous position is that it should have been apparent two years ago that Newman would never make it. It's made even more ridiculous by the fact that 18 months ago you were singing his praises, and now you've suddenly become wise in hindsight and apparently everyone else should have as well.
 

Masto

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When have I ever, ever mentioned Marlon Pickett?

Your ridiculous position is that it should have been apparent two years ago that Newman would never make it. It's made even more ridiculous by the fact that 18 months ago you were singing his praises, and now you've suddenly become wise in hindsight and apparently everyone else should have as well.
Its not at all ridiculous to suggest that Newman was a massive gamble - and it hasn't worked out. I think even our recruiting staff would admit that. Praising a game where he came on as a sub against Goldcoast and kicked 2 goals in junk time is neither here nor there. Whether you like it or not - we got it badly wrong, you just can't admit it.
 

beatlesmith

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And what position is that? That we shouldn't have drafted Newman and our recruiting sucks? Don't you want to draft Marlon Pickett? Who is really the one taking a ridiculous position?
Firstly, that Newman will not succeed as a matter of certainty.
Secondly, that based on pre-draft interviews and fitness in 2011, the club should have known that he would have major fitness issues in his second season (itself not the end of the world), and that he would punch a bloke when out on the town.
Thirdly, as a nice little bonus, that the club probably didn't research his wrist injury.
 

Butler

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I'm with Masto on this one. Why didn't the recruiters look into there crystal ball before selecting Newman?

Why didn't they do a physc/background test that would have for sure seen that Newman was going to go out one night, have a few too many and punch someone? They couldn't have done it because there is no way that this incident was just a mistake.

I mean what were they thinking?
 

Masto

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I'm with Masto on this one. Why didn't the recruiters look into there crystal ball before selecting Newman?

Why didn't they do a physc/background test that would have for sure seen that Newman was going to go out one night, have a few too many and punch someone? They couldn't have done it because there is no way that this incident was just a mistake.

I mean what were they thinking?
Meh, hanging out with Dayle Garlett should be enough of a red flag. Its not rocket science.
 

Miguel Sanchez

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Its not at all ridiculous to suggest that Newman was a massive gamble - and it hasn't worked out. I think even our recruiting staff would admit that. Praising a game where he came on as a sub against Goldcoast and kicked 2 goals in junk time is neither here nor there. Whether you like it or not - we got it badly wrong, you just can't admit it.
How was it a massive gamble? We took a guy rated as a top 30 prospect with pick 23.

Twelve months later he punched an associate outside a nightclub* and got charged with GBH, then showed up out of shape to pre-season. Now he faces potential jail time as a result, which is a more than a slight chance of affecting his AFL career.

So yeah, in hindsight we could probably have picked up a player at 23 who didn't do all that stuff, and who has less than a reasonable possibility of starting the 2014 season behind bars. I don't have a problem admitting that.

What I do have a problem with is your assertion that our recruiters should have somehow seen all of that coming, and picked someone else.

By the way, could you explain the Marlon Pickett reference to me?

*allegedly.
 

Masto

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How was it a massive gamble? We took a guy rated as a top 30 prospect with pick 23.

Twelve months later he punched an associate outside a nightclub* and got charged with GBH, then showed up out of shape to pre-season. Now he faces potential jail time as a result, which is a more than a slight chance of affecting his AFL career.

So yeah, in hindsight we could probably have picked up a player at 23 who didn't do all that stuff, and who has less than a reasonable possibility of starting the 2014 season behind bars. I don't have a problem admitting that.

What I do have a problem with is your assertion that our recruiters should have somehow seen all of that coming, and picked someone else.

By the way, could you explain the Marlon Pickett reference to me?

*allegedly.
There is no point discussing Marlon Pickett because you deleted all the posts, so I can't prove anything. But that's the advantage you have in being a moderator. If you can't remember it then that's not my problem.
 

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There is no point discussing Marlon Pickett because you deleted all the posts, so I can't prove anything. But that's the advantage you have in being a moderator. If you can't remember it then that's not my problem.
Yeah. Something should have been done to separate the two Swan Districts colts players...
 

Miguel Sanchez

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There is no point discussing Marlon Pickett because you deleted all the posts, so I can't prove anything. But that's the advantage you have in being a moderator. If you can't remember it then that's not my problem.
What posts? In what thread?

I've never seen Marlon Pickett play. As I understand it he's played about two league games for Souths, during that time I've been in Victoria. Am I supposed to be pro-drafting him or against it?
 

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Butler

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Meh, hanging out with Dayle Garlett should be enough of a red flag. Its not rocket science.
Most of the Garlett criticism came before last years draft wasn't it? Newman was taken a year before that.

By the sounds of it you're expecting a lot more than just rocket science from the recruiters.
 

Miguel Sanchez

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In hindsight there is always red flags, they just couldn't see them. Next time, they have to do better.
What are some of these red flags they should have been looking out for?

You should probably specify what they are, so our recruiters can "do better"
 

beatlesmith

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In hindsight there is always red flags, they just couldn't see them. Next time, they have to do better.
Guys I've got it! We put every draftee that we're looking at through extensive psychological testing that I'm fairly certain we're not allowed to do and we investigate all of their 17 year-old friends and make sure there aren't any bad eggs. If they're not super-fit pre-draft they never will be because all of our players have to be complete packages out of the box absent any AFL level training or conditioning. With these things we can say for certain whether they will be good players or wasted picks!

I call it black ops.
 

Miguel Sanchez

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I've already listed them previously in this thread.
In this particular discussion over the last two pages?

You've said "it was obvious he had a small tank", which EH rebuked saying his fitness wasn't a particular concern.

You've also said he was hanging out with Garlett, which beatlesmith and butler pointed out was before Garlett was in any sort of trouble.

You've asserted that the club didn't look deep enough into Newman's broken wrist, which (a) appears to be just a guess on your part, (b) has had no effect on his senior career and (c) may not have been a broken wrist at all.

Have you listed any other red flags the club should have been looking out for?
 

Masto

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In this particular discussion over the last two pages?

You've said "it was obvious he had a small tank", which EH rebuked saying his fitness wasn't a particular concern.

You've also said he was hanging out with Garlett, which beatlesmith pointed out was before Garlett was in any sort of trouble.

You've asserted that the club didn't look deep enough into Newman's broken wrist, which (a) appears to be just a guess on your part, (b) has had no effect on his senior career and (c) may not have been a broken wrist at all.

Have you listed any other red flags the club should have been looking out for?
I'll list them again for you since you seem incapable of reading.

1. Broken arm in so called 'skating accident'
2. Hangs out with the wrong people and in the wrong places
3. Fitness tests
4. Psychology tests
5. Played few colts or wafl games before drafted.

How many red flags do you want? There is plenty there in hindsight.
 

Miguel Sanchez

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I'll list them again for you since you seem incapable of reading.

1. Broken arm in so called 'skating accident'
2. Hangs out with the wrong people and in the wrong places
3. Fitness tests
4. Psychology tests
5. Played few colts or wafl games before drafted.

How many red flags do you want? There is plenty there in hindsight.
You got me. I'm terrible at reading things that aren't actually in existence. It's my secret shame.

1. You had it as a broken wrist, someone else said he fell through a glass table and severed a tendon, now it's a broken arm in a skating accident. In any case, how is it a red flag? Kids ride skateboards, and occasionally fall off.
2. Hangs out with a colts teammate, before said teammate was in any trouble.
3. One of our more knowledgable draft experts said fitness wasn't perceived to be an issue at the time.
4. We have no way of knowing how they went.
5. Where did you say that?
 

QS

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I'll add something beyond xxxpls twitter quotes. We whinge about drafting vanilla players, we have a player who could provide some x factor that is in a little strife and needs some assistance growing up. It could be for a variety of reasons, which the club have accepted and willing to work with.

Yet those things are red flags? Michael Walters, Andrew Krakouer, Ben Cousins, Steve Johnson, Alan Didak, Dane Swan. Have a think about those names.
 
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