Delisting Players After the ND

[blaze036]

The issue that you and most others on here have is not that he has been delisted, but the timing of it. It is worth pointing out that in the end, the timing was as a result of Winmar's actions. Saints since mid year had outlined his problems and what he needed to do to rectify these.

Before the end of season break, he once again had clear expectations of what was required of him, as to how he was to come back from his time off. Saints have given him multiple chances and wanted to do all possible, to keep him on the list.

But this should be noted, that the timing, was as a result of Winmar's poor motivation and adherence to what was required of him. The club didn't terminate him earlier, as they were trying to give him a further chance. They took the action now, as the situation was untenable. Winmar still has options. He can still be drafted and if not, he is paid for 2013.

It was obvious he wasn't part of St.Kilda's future plans prior to the draft imo, they wouldn't of just changed their mind from a few days of training sessions, better to let him go with a chance to continue his career. But without knowing actually what happened we can't really talk in definite's. There is a small chance Winmar begged them to keep him on the list until the time trial then he failed them... who knows, but on the face of it I don't like it at all.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

It was obvious he wasn't part of St.Kilda's future plans prior to the draft imo, they wouldn't of just changed their mind from a few days of training sessions, better to let him go with a chance to continue his career. But without knowing actually what happened we can't really talk in definite's. There is a small chance Winmar begged them to keep him on the list until the time trial then he failed them... who knows, but on the face of it I don't like it at all.

Blaze, club will be notified that you don't like it. I am sure that they will appreciate the feedback.

 

[mysainters]

I understand he may of dropped the ball in terms of commitment, but to cut him AFTER his best chance of continuing his career just seems like a very very cruel thing to do.

What if he dropped the ball further, AFTER thinking he had coasted through his time trial and there appeared to be no consequences?

 

[aussierulesrules]

It was obvious he wasn't part of St.Kilda's future plans prior to the draft imo, they wouldn't of just changed their mind from a few days of training sessions, better to let him go with a chance to continue his career.

That makes pretty much no sense though. If, as you are suggesting, the club had marked his papers before the deadline for him to nominate for the draft, then we would surely have just delisted him then. We had nothing whatsoever to gain by waiting until now to do it, if, as you suggested, we had already decided he was not part of our future plans. We could have had another pick in the ND, if we had done it then, allowing us to get in first on anyone that we might have otherwise been keen to take in the PSD.

It seems pretty clear that he was given one last chance to clean up his act and he chose not to and he now faces the consequences of his choices. As noted, he also has 3 more opportunities to get onto other clubs lists for next year, or at worst, gets paid for next year without having to lift a finger, which, by the sounds of it, might be right up his alley.

Then of course, is the flip side. Someone else now gets a crack at AFL footy (whoever we pick in Winmar's place). If we had kept Winmar on the list, knowing that he was not going to make it, then we may have been depriving whoever we are now going to take in either the PSD or rookie draft of their chance to play AFL footy. Someone who hopefully is committed and willing to bust a gut to get a game.

 

[Tangy Zizzle]

This isn't just footy, its a guys job and livelyhood that's been dealt an harsh and unfair blow. Really poor by St.Kilda, won't help them getting new people to the club through FA when players are treated like this

"Harsh and unfair blow"? What a crock of BS.
The bloke failed to meet the minimum required standards for his job and rightly got the sack.
It could be viewed as being unfair on the club and other players to retain, play, and pay him while he didn't put in the effort.

The notion that St.Kilda somehow owes it to him to ensure he finds employment, in the same industry, at the same level, is a joke.
Would you expect that from your employers if you got the sack tomorrow? Don't think so.
Why do you think AFL footballers should be treated any different?

 

[Freo2012]

I don't see what the problem is - there are only so many AFL players in total - if someone isn't doing enough to ensure he stays in a team, maybe he doesn't deserve it and the club should cut him to give another young footy player the opportunity to shine.

too many think once they are on an AFL list they have made it - its actually only the beginning of the hard work to achieve.

 

[saintsrfreak]

http://www.saints.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/5315/newsid/151872/default.aspx

“From the Club’s position we’d like to make it clear that this wasn’t a huge shock and a spur of the moment decision."

“Discussions have been had with Nick about his condition and application just before the halfway mark of the season."

“Subsequent to his return his condition was still poor and that was reflected in the way he was training.”

While List Lodgement Two had occurred prior to the National Draft, Bains explained, “At that point in time we were still willing to give him opportunity to show us that he had the application and desire, particularly given the chat that took place upon his return."

Winmar is eligible to be selected as a Free Agent by another AFL club between the 30th November and the 4th December and can also nominate for both the AFL Pre-Season and Rookie Drafts on the 11th December 2012.

Well I don't see how anyone could argue we did the wrong thing after reading that.
Wait it's St Kilda, of course they will.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

He isn't prohibited. He can be drafted if he is good enough.

Get's turfed in a way that his name is mud (takes more than a week or 2 to chnage people's opinions of you).

Then has little time to get a gig elswhere with only half the teams having senior spots.

Misses out on PSD and Rookie draft. Now Prohibited from playing.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

He isn't prohibited, and I look forward to Essendon drafting him in the PSD just to "do what's right".

Ah yet again, the simpleton's argument. What if I went for a team with no PSD or Rookie picks. Then what? How will you attack me and not the argument then?

How about debating the actual topic, whihc is not Winmar's ability, but the way in which the rules allows clubs to dump players unfairly.

But I assume you will just see this as another attack on St. Kilda and criticise my club right? Even though this topic has little to do with your club other than being the test case.

 

[saintgary]

If it's true we have signed Roberton, you can understand why the club has delisted him now and not prior. Roberton has been training with the Saints recently and obviously they felt he was a better option going forward than Winmar. Ideally they would have known earlier, but Roberton hasn't being training with St Kilda for long and they needed time to decide which player to go with.

It's not entirely fair to sack a player now, but football is a brutal business sometimes.

 

[juzzo]

Get's turfed in a way that his name is mud (takes more than a week or 2 to chnage people's opinions of you).

Then has little time to get a gig elswhere with only half the teams having senior spots.

Misses out on PSD and Rookie draft. Now Prohibited from playing.

huh? He can nominate for both the PSD and rookie draft aswell as being taken through delisted free agency.

 

[Freo2012]

Ah yet again, the simpleton's argument. What if I went for a team with no PSD or Rookie picks. Then what? How will you attack me and not the argument then?

How about debating the actual topic, whihc is not Winmar's ability, but the way in which the rules allows clubs to dump players unfairly.

But I assume you will just see this as another attack on St. Kilda and criticise my club right? Even though this topic has little to do with your club other than being the test case.

How is it dumping a player unfairly - if they had real value to the club they wouldn't be dumped. Are you suggesting that once a player gets on an AFL list he is a "protected species" - why should other talent miss out on the opportunity to shine by list cloggers that haven't been able to make it for whatever reason. Give some one else the opportunity.

 

[StonesThrow]

Didn't Adelaide just do the same to Tippett? Shame on them. He should sue.

 

[Tiger2709]

He ran last in a time trial, after three years of doing not much....

He is responsible for the consequences of his actions surely?

Sure it's tough, but that's life sometimes.

Nicks AFL dream has been crushed because he didn't work hard enough.

Saints are being tough, I can't be sorry about that, it's about time.

But why wait until after the draft why didn't they cut him before, this isn't a club getting tough this is the sort of thing that turns players off a club, I hope he at least gets his contract paid out.

 

[BACCS]

Same thing happened to Peter Yagmoor today, after getting a pretty good endorsement by Eade in the media recently. Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet...

Only been at the club for one season hasn't he? So effectively, has been cut with a year still to run as well. Haven't heard Collingwood say the reasons behind the decision yet though, so I guess probably should wait for that.

Still travelling to Utah with the team though next Tuesday, which I guess means he'll be kept on as a rookie?

 

[Tiger2709]

Didn't Adelaide just do the same to Tippett? Shame on them. He should sue.

Wasn't that the reverse Adelaide wouldn't delist him so he delisted himself and is therefore not able to be picked up as a restricted free transfer?

 

[juzzo]

Same thing happened to Peter Yagmoor today, after getting a pretty good endorsement by Eade in the media recently. Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet...

We'll be redrafting him.

 

[BACCS]

We'll be redrafting him.

Yeah, just read up on that. Similar type story I guess though, along with Callum Bartlett from the Lions, who will redrafted also. Just seems odd clubs wait so late to make calls like this though, if they plan on redrafting anyway.

 

[BACCS]

Wasn't that the reverse Adelaide wouldn't delist him so he delisted himself and is therefore not able to be picked up as a restricted free transfer?

Well, the sarcasm meter clearly didn't work here.

 

[bunsen burner]

How is it dumping a player unfairly - if they had real value to the club they wouldn't be dumped. Are you suggesting that once a player gets on an AFL list he is a "protected species" - why should other talent miss out on the opportunity to shine by list cloggers that haven't been able to make it for whatever reason. Give some one else the opportunity.

What a lame argument.

1. No one has suggested players are protected species. Just dump them before the draft
2. If he's a list clogger then dump him before the draft so he has a reasonable opportunity to get picked up somewhere else.

Absolutely disgraceful by St Kilda and Watters. They just shafted him big time. Other club delist and then have an option of redrafting that same player if nothing else becomes available.

St Kilda = grub of a club.

 

[santa claws]

I don't see what the problem is - there are only so many AFL players in total - if someone isn't doing enough to ensure he stays in a team, maybe he doesn't deserve it and the club should cut him to give another young footy player the opportunity to shine.

too many think once they are on an AFL list they have made it - its actually only the beginning of the hard work to achieve.

too many are of the attitude right across society that they are owed something and they dont need to take responsibility for their actions. its always someone elses fault. we need only read this thread to see a good example.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

They pushed Winmar to get Cockie. That's OK. Timing was pi55 poor from Winmar's perspective. How hard is it to act with a bit of class and dignity.

 

[saintgary]

They pushed Winmar to get Cockie. That's OK. Timing was pi55 poor from Winmar's perspective. How hard is it to act with a bit of class and dignity.

We did it to get Roberton. I think that is pretty clear by now. Clearly Winmar showed us he didn't want to be on the list by performing poorly and we had someone training with us who was desperate to be picked up. Easy choice. Unfortunate on Winmar's behalf, but that's how it go. In a ideal world it would have happened earlier, but Roberton hasn't been training with St Kilda for long, it's only been recent.

 

[bunsen burner]

too many are of the attitude right across society that they are owed something and they dont need to take responsibility for their actions. its always someone elses fault. we need only read this thread to see a good example.

What absolute rubbish. Every other club delists players before the draft. No one has an issue with him being delisted, just the timing of it. They've left him out on a limb.

If he's not up to it, fine, delist him. But do it before the draft.

What is it about that you don't understand?

 

[Freo2012]

What absolute rubbish. Every other club delists players before the draft. No one has an issue with him being delisted, just the timing of it. They've left him out on a limb.

If he's not up to it, fine, delist him. But do it before the draft.

What is it about that you don't understand?

Its easy to take the high moral ground on what would be the best order of doing things in hindsight. Reality is often different though - changed circumstances changes things. Are you saying they should not have delisted him, even though it was within the rules, when a far better player (including character) became available - we don't know all the details - they are acting in the clubs best interests and will also do the best by their players wherever possible, sometimes though timing of changed circumstances means things have to be done at not the best timing.

I am sorry Freo lost Roberton and hope he gets a long successful career at St's if that is where he ends up.