Delistings - predictions 2020

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DST

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Not sure that's correct. He's been convicted - sentencing won't alter that.

I honestly fail to see how a conviction for domestic violence isn't enough to be deemed a breach warranting dismissal.

Anyway, time will tell. The Swan's legal people will be all over it.
It has everything to do with it. If he does jail time, that will mean he can’t perform what is required in his contract.

That will give us leverage to negotiate the terminating of the contract in the lowest settlement cost possible and thus with the lowest outcome on the TPP for 2021.


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SeanM

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Stoddart was one good confidence boosting game away from having a future in AFL IMO. Thought he and McInerney combined well in NEAFL.
I think if he managed to latch onto somewhere like Geelong who probably need a bunch of cheapies to go with their new big money signings he might do ok as a running halfback.
Probably in the minority on him though.🤷‍♂️
Stoddart got criticised on here for his last game for repeatedly bombing the ball. But I thought he showed good signs in that game in taking contested marks and winning the ball. It was bad luck to get injured mid season.

It is also competitive with a few other uncontracted defenders in Melican, Fox, Thurlow and Ling. And several contracted defenders in Brand, CoR, Gould and O'Connor.
 
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RobbieK

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Not sure that's correct. He's been convicted - sentencing won't alter that.

I honestly fail to see how a conviction for domestic violence isn't enough to be deemed a breach warranting dismissal.

Anyway, time will tell. The Swan's legal people will be all over it.
I would be truly shocked if he is still on the list next year. Not just for the criminal acts he has confessed to, but also for the repeated instructions from the club that he chose to ignore. There should be plenty of grounds in all of that for the contract to be terminated.

I can understand the desire around here for the club to have him officially off the list as quickly as possible, but this is a complex situation involving the law of the country, AFL rules, contracts, Taylor's welfare and the welfare of his partner too. At this point I see no reason to doubt that the club is doing their best to navigate the difficult situation in a way that allows us to remove him from the list while satisfying our legal and moral obligations to those involved.
 

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SeanM

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When they stood Elijah down I think they talked about him repeatedly not following club directives. So even if he had not pleaded guilty to the incident at the hotel in Perth. He could have been in trouble if the club had told him that the most important thing was to stay away from his ex girlfriend.

In any case it might be better for all parties for Elijah to be fully paid out his final year, stay in Perth and then eventually join a WAFL club. Rather than return to Sydney for a year.
 

Big Blood

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I'm guessing Maibaum, Stoddard, Ling. Plus a couple of others - Sam Gray would be lucky to survive.

For Elijah, I assume we have a protocol to follow for players convicted of criminal offence (I assume he's convicted -- last I heard he had pleaded guilty??). Although now I think of it the NRL clubs despite their vast experience with criminal convictions always seem completely baffled.

I'm also guessing it (the axings) will be announced tomorrow (19th).
 

RobbieK

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I'm guessing Maibaum, Stoddard, Ling. Plus a couple of others - Sam Gray would be lucky to survive.

For Elijah, I assume we have a protocol to follow for players convicted of criminal offence (I assume he's convicted -- last I heard he had pleaded guilty??). Although now I think of it the NRL clubs despite their vast experience with criminal convictions always seem completely baffled.

I'm also guessing it (the axings) will be announced tomorrow (19th).
The first bunch have already been announced...


Gray has a contract for next year, so he won't be delisted.
 

BruceFromBalnarring

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Not sure that's correct. He's been convicted - sentencing won't alter that.

I honestly fail to see how a conviction for domestic violence isn't enough to be deemed a breach warranting dismissal.

Anyway, time will tell. The Swan's legal people will be all over it.
Conviction (plea) is about the act.

Sentencing takes into account the circumstances.
 

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RobbieK

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Yes.

But I decline to outline them after the response last time and the lazy labelling of those who suggest a cautious response as *insert derogatory label*.
He has already put in his guilty plea, so I truly am curious what circumstances remain in which you could possibly think he gets retained.
 

BruceFromBalnarring

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He has already put in his guilty plea, so I truly am curious what circumstances remain in which you could possibly think he gets retained.
Here we go.....

Ok. What if she was already hooking into him? What if she had a good handful of his nuts and wouldn’t let go? What if alcohol makes him violent and he was in the hotel detoxing and she turned up with a bottle of whiskey looking hot and said “Let’s Party one more time?”

It’s likely he’s in trouble and will lose his contract. But the moral absolutism of some around here is pathetic. None of us know the details. Every situation is different. That’s why he gets a sentencing hearing.
 

RobbieK

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Here we go.....

Ok. What if she was already hooking into him? What if she had a good handful of his nuts and wouldn’t let go? What if alcohol makes him violent and he was in the hotel detoxing and she turned up with a bottle of whiskey looking hot and said “Let’s Party one more time?”

It’s likely he’s in trouble and will lose his contract. But the moral absolutism of some around here is pathetic. None of us know the details. Every situation is different. That’s why he gets a sentencing hearing.
None of those things sounds like the kind of "extenuating circumstance" that could warrant any sort of reconsideration. Do you really think that any of those scenarios you just hypothesised should see the club maintain him on the list?
 

Corpuscles

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You were asked to say what circumstances would make the club consider hanging on to him after you suggested such circumstances existed.

Are you now walking back on that claim? Seems a bit like it...
No BfB was originally asked whether there could be circumstances?
Reply was yes however he BfB did not know them specifically. No suggestion direct claim that "such circumstances existed"

BfB: " (ET) likely he’s in trouble and will lose his contract. But the moral absolutism of some around here is pathetic. None of us know the details."

:thumbsu:



We do not know the contract details either. But a review of AFL salary cap rules means that any termination payment is counted in the salary cap when payout occurs.
It would be in Swans best interest not to delist this salary cap year, delay until next. I believe (not certain) which is after all 2020 de listings are registered and trade week begins / ends. (I do not think AFL cap year is a calendar year but relative to season activities- prior to sentencing in Dec 2020)

I am glad Swans have a highly skilled team of professionals that will make decision based on known facts, rather than sanctimonious ramblings and sundry sooks on BF who know nothing other than what the media speculates and reports!
 
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BloodySwan

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When I put together a quick 22 + emergencies I'm surprised with some of the ones we have kept going. There's players out of contract like McLean, Ronke, Amarety, Ling who don't make my extended list and I'm pretty generous for some of these players. Definitely not the last of the cuts

FB: Mills, Melican, Lloyd
HB: Rampe, McCartin, Fox
C:Clarke, Rowbottom, Florent
CHF: Heeney, Reid, Dawson
F: Papley, Buddy, Wicks
C: Naismith, Kennedy, Parker
Int: Cunngingham, Sinclair/Aliir, Blakey, McInerney
Emg: Hayward, Thurlow, Gray, Taylor, Stephens
 

Corpuscles

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When I put together a quick 22 + emergencies I'm surprised with some of the ones we have kept going. There's players out of contract like McLean, Ronke, Amarety, Ling who don't make my extended list and I'm pretty generous for some of these players. Definitely not the last of the cuts

FB: Mills, Melican, Lloyd
HB: Rampe, McCartin, Fox
C:Clarke, Rowbottom, Florent
CHF: Heeney, Reid, Dawson
F: Papley, Buddy, Wicks
C: Naismith, Kennedy, Parker
Int: Cunngingham, Sinclair/Aliir, Blakey, McInerney
Emg: Hayward, Thurlow, Gray, Taylor, Stephens

You do realise that Swans are required to field a reserves team?
 

RobbieK

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No BfB was originally asked whether there could be circumstances?
Reply was yes however he BfB did not know them specifically. No suggestion direct claim that "such circumstances existed"

BfB: " (ET) likely he’s in trouble and will lose his contract. But the moral absolutism of some around here is pathetic. None of us know the details."

:thumbsu:



We do not know the contract details either. But a review of AFL salary cap rules means that any termination payment is counted in the salary cap when payout occurs.
It would be in Swans best interest not to delist this salary cap year, delay until next. I believe (not certain) which is after all 2020 de listings are registered and trade week begins. (I do not think AFL cap year is a calendar year but relative to season activities- prior to sentencing in Dec 2020)

I am glad Swans have a highly skilled team of professionals that will make decision based on known facts, rather than sanctimonious ramblings and sundry sooks on BF who know nothing other than what the media speculates and reports!
Bruce said that there could be circumstances which would see the club retain Taylor but declined to make what they could be. I asked him for examples and he responded as he did. At no point was the question whether Bruce has inside knowledge about the actual situation, it was about what he would consider to be the kind of situation that would warrant us keeping him. Bruce's inability to imagine a reasonable extenuating circumstance is instructive - there isn't one.
 
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Tedeski

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None of those things sounds like the kind of "extenuating circumstance" that could warrant any sort of reconsideration. Do you really think that any of those scenarios you just hypothesised should see the club maintain him on the list?
Was he a part of the first names of players delisted?
Nope!
I was expecting him to be delisted first up. Nope!
 

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