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Delistings

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I agree on the calls for patience on the young rucks. Even Jimmy had to go to Prahran in the VFA to learn his craft...

Newton on the other hand must be close to the chopping block. He has been on the list for quite a while and he hasn't produced much. Unless he is doing some serious mentoring of the young blokes, I'm not sure what value he is adding. Happy to be persuaded otherwise, but looking on from outside the inner sanctum... clouded his future is.
 
Wise Guy Sam said:
What if Cook and/or Watts don't make it yet Fitzy turns into a star in 3 years ...at Richmond?

It's not like we are carrying a whole lot of dead weight around, no need to swing the axe.

I think we would be crazy to get rid of Spencer this year. Let's give him a another season at least. Before he did his knee he was bulkier then Frawley, he would still have a lot of developing to go.

Patiance fella's.
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Thats why I would give him a spot on the rookie list, players can spend 3 years on it which is enough time to work and get back on the senior list if he is good enough.

As for Spencer i actually think he'll be a handy player to keep, i was at the pre season game against Essendon this year and he impressed me a fair bit that game, took 2 big marks within 30 seconds down back a bit like what Jamar does, after that game i really thought he'll get quite a few games this year but injury really ruined his season.
 
God this thread makes me angry.
 
Campbell- Martin coming on in leaaps and bounds removes his use. Get him as a ruck coach if need be.
Newton- finally, surely he has packed his things.
Warnock- can't see Neeld talking him out of a transfer request.
Bate- has to be in a lot of trouble. Would not cut it as a midfielder in a million years. Will be sorry to see Bater go but that's footy.
Wonna- wouldn't be suprised if he quit footy. Seems to lack motivation at the best of times for mine.

All for giving more time to Fitz and particularly Spence as long as list management feel we can afford to carry both. Shouldn't be an issue.
 

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Let me decipher this post...

KickLongTackleHard said:
Campbell- Martin coming on in leaaps and bounds removes his use. Get him as a ruck coach if need be.
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Agreed... he's taught the younger ruckmen a lot this year, making him ruck coach will just further strengthen his status.

KickLongTackleHard said:
Newton- finally, surely he has packed his things.
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I have been waiting for the day.

KickLongTackleHard said:
Warnock- can't see Neeld talking him out of a transfer request.
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Neither can I.

KickLongTackleHard said:
Bate- has to be in a lot of trouble. Would not cut it as a midfielder in a million years. Will be sorry to see Bater go but that's footy.
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This is the only point I disagree with. For years and years we have played Bater out of position. With Fitzpatrick coming in in the last round Bater finally got a crack in the midfield and had 26 possies (yeah, alright... it WAS against Port). Is worth another year IMO.

KickLongTackleHard said:
Wonna- wouldn't be suprised if he quit footy. Seems to lack motivation at the best of times for mine.
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Agreed.
 
I just got up and had a great thought. I'm taking the genius of you guys even further. Instead of delisting them after 5 minutes, we should have a 'no talls' drafting policy. Think about it, no need pass judgment when you clearly have no idea...nip it in the bud before it's a problem and don't draft them. Thoughts?
 
KickLongTackleHard said:
Campbell- Martin coming on in leaaps and bounds removes his use. Get him as a ruck coach if need be.
Newton- finally, surely he has packed his things.
Warnock- can't see Neeld talking him out of a transfer request.
Bate- has to be in a lot of trouble. Would not cut it as a midfielder in a million years. Will be sorry to see Bater go but that's footy.
Wonna- wouldn't be suprised if he quit footy. Seems to lack motivation at the best of times for mine.

All for giving more time to Fitz and particularly Spence as long as list management feel we can afford to carry both. Shouldn't be an issue.
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100% agree. Cannot see bate making it as an AFL mid, but he's under contract next year afaik so if he doesn't get traded it couldn't hurt for his preseason to be centred around a shot as a midfielder.
 
Fitz is under contract anyway, so free up a spot and rookie him next year if needed - that'll keep him at the club until pretty much 23 years old and we should start getting a good idea by then.
 
Are other clubs constantly sending players to the rookie list?

Do you guys realise that if we delist someone with the intention of rookie listing them because they have potential other clubs can draft them 1st.

You're all loco.
 
lose said:
Yeh mate I'm old enough I remember watching Gary nd the ox destroy the dogs in '94.. awesome times..

I no u have too wait wit the big guys, mate I've had a million arguments bout watts wit my mates nd luckily he's starting to show.. however, wit Gawn showing way more than Spencer has already, I'm not sure if it's worth keeping him.. to be perfectly honest I'd rather we move Spencer on, he's so much like Blake it's rediculous.. nd with the need for a ruckman to be able to be mobile nd take a big mark, well Spencer can't do either of these things.. the game has changed, nd u can't compare him to sandilands cos he's not that big nd can't dominate his opponent simply due to size..

we can't keep everyone guys, I'd much rather keep Dunn because he generally offers us something, nd I think he'll majorly benefit from a more structured game plan.. spencer warnock newton Johnston all gone I do believe.. plus others,
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I'm with you on this mate. Wona or Maric might get the shot at being the small forward under the new coach, but just because Spencer is young does not mean he will make it. Both he and Fitzy were gambles, rather than early picks, and unfortunately for them tough calls need to be made sometimes. With Gawn, Jamar and Martin have plenty of footy ahead of them, I think we can afford to go young with another 18 year old ruckman and give him a couple of years to see if he can show more than Spencer or Jack. The reason we kept Jamar is because after Whitey retired, there was nobody else. We tried to trade for ruckmen, but Meesen and Johnson were the best we could get and we all know how that ended up... Now that we seem to have a strong, three-man ruck division, we can afford to make the hard calls that we couldn't in the past. Yes, Spencer or Fitzy may prove us wrong ala Jamar, but we don't need them now as much as we needed him then...
 
maxmustard said:
I just got up and had a great thought. I'm taking the genius of you guys even further. Instead of delisting them after 5 minutes, we should have a 'no talls' drafting policy. Think about it, no need pass judgment when you clearly have no idea...nip it in the bud before it's a problem and don't draft them. Thoughts?
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With any young tall player, I not expecting them to dominate, but I do want to see glimpses of their skill-set that would suggest that they'll make it at AFL level.

I'm genuinely excited by Gawn who has been at the club 5 minutes. With their average skill-sets, I just can't see Spencer making it as a no.1 ruckman or Fitzpatrick as a key forward.

Recruiters don't always get it right, so to say that you have to give a young tall 4 years before making an assessment is BS.
 
pjfairbairn said:
I'm with you on this mate. Wona or Maric might get the shot at being the small forward under the new coach, but just because Spencer is young does not mean he will make it. Both he and Fitzy were gambles, rather than early picks, and unfortunately for them tough calls need to be made sometimes. With Gawn, Jamar and Martin have plenty of footy ahead of them, I think we can afford to go young with another 18 year old ruckman and give him a couple of years to see if he can show more than Spencer or Jack. The reason we kept Jamar is because after Whitey retired, there was nobody else. We tried to trade for ruckmen, but Meesen and Johnson were the best we could get and we all know how that ended up... Now that we seem to have a strong, three-man ruck division, we can afford to make the hard calls that we couldn't in the past. Yes, Spencer or Fitzy may prove us wrong ala Jamar, but we don't need them now as much as we needed him then...
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not sure how you could realistically think Wona could make the list. He was unfit when he was playing..
 

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Wise Guy Sam said:
Are other clubs constantly sending players to the rookie list?

Do you guys realise that if we delist someone with the intention of rookie listing them because they have potential other clubs can draft them 1st.

You're all loco.
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I know, every time I read the term "re-rookie" or "let just send him to the rookie list" I shudder the lack of rational thought behind the post.

It's not that simple, we have to delist them (including early termination if they're still contracted), leaving them available to all other clubs through the national & rookie drafts until we take them, which would usually be with our last rookie pick. If they had a contract & we get them on to the rookie list, we pay them on that contract wage but they are now on our rookie list.

If another club took them then we'd have to pay the difference between the base rookie wage the other club offered them & their contract with us, like the Woey situation

Yes it happens sometimes & yes we have done it in the past, but only as a last resort situation where we had contracted list cloggers (Newton) & we wanted to free up list space for draftees. If we're not taking many draftees, couldn't see us employing this tactic
 
maxmustard said:
I just got up and had a great thought. I'm taking the genius of you guys even further. Instead of delisting them after 5 minutes, we should have a 'no talls' drafting policy. Think about it, no need pass judgment when you clearly have no idea...nip it in the bud before it's a problem and don't draft them. Thoughts?
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Thoughts? You're an idiot. Sorry we can't all be like you and not pass judgement on players who clearly won't be any good.

I'd keep Fitzpatrick for a few more years but Spencer is well behind Jamar, Martin, Gawn and Fitzpatrick. No need for him.
 
sivart said:
For every Jamar there are 5 Newtons

FWIW I would keep him another year, I'm just saying
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Ain't that the truth.

I don't think Spencer will make it, but no use cutting him while contracted & works out well that unless he's dramatically improves he's an automatic out at the end of next year for the next supposed super draft. I'm sure we'd listen to any trade offers we got for him though

Fitz I'm not sure on & I think they'd persist with him a little while longer, was rated quite high & slipped down the draft to where we took him, I think we'd be silly to cut our losses this early & at worst should get a 1 year deal.
 
CowboyFromHell said:
Thoughts? You're an idiot. Sorry we can't all be like you and not pass judgement on players who clearly won't be any good.

I'd keep Fitzpatrick for a few more years but Spencer is well behind Jamar, Martin, Gawn and Fitzpatrick. No need for him.
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Wow haha. Mine was a smart arse post and I may well be an idiot, but did you honestly rate Stefan Martin one year ago? I didn't. How many people back then wanted him gone you think? I also thought Jamar was a huge hack. Just saying after these examples I'm not going to be so quick to pull the trigger with these guys. Just a different opinion is all no need to be so cranky.
 

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Wise Guy Sam said:
Are other clubs constantly sending players to the rookie list?

Do you guys realise that if we delist someone with the intention of rookie listing them because they have potential other clubs can draft them 1st.

You're all loco.
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I don't think its unreasonable to suggest guys such as Fitzpatrick and Wonna would make it through to our rookie picks.
 
tasmanlvr said:
This is the only point I disagree with. For years and years we have played Bater out of position. With Fitzpatrick coming in in the last round Bater finally got a crack in the midfield and had 26 possies (yeah, alright... it WAS against Port). Is worth another year IMO.
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No point taking my post apart and agreeing with 95% of it..but anyway.

Why do people think Bate can cut it as a midfielder? He has the build of Swan without the pace or skills on either side of the body. The fact he got a run in the middle vs. Port late in the year made me raise my eyebrows.
 
KickLongTackleHard said:
No point taking my post apart and agreeing with 95% of it..but anyway.

Why do people think Bate can cut it as a midfielder? He has the build of Swan without the pace or skills on either side of the body. The fact he got a run in the middle vs. Port late in the year made me raise my eyebrows.
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He was racking up 30-40 disposals for Casey in the midfield. People have been crying out for bigger bodied mids, and he was doing what none of our other mids do: shepherding, blocking, helping others out.

That said, I'm about as confident in the Master being anything more than a stopgap as I was about Bails being the one to lead us to the promised land: hopeful but rather unconvinced.
 
KickLongTackleHard said:
Why do people think Bate can cut it as a midfielder? He has the build of Swan without the pace or skills on either side of the body. The fact he got a run in the middle vs. Port late in the year made me raise my eyebrows.
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TBF Swan's skills are nowhere near elite, the man can barely kick a drop punt half the time. Yes he's a gun, but it's his workrate which is elite.
 
KickLongTackleHard said:
No point taking my post apart and agreeing with 95% of it..but anyway.

Why do people think Bate can cut it as a midfielder? He has the build of Swan without the pace or skills on either side of the body. The fact he got a run in the middle vs. Port late in the year made me raise my eyebrows.
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Bate played there as a junior in the under 18's TAC comp, he has a good engine and oppourtunities up forward will be limited. Yea he is one sided and not overly agile, but is a bigger body that could help moloney with clearences and winning some contested footy. If it was a surprise that he played in the midfield against Port, read some of the Casey reports becuase he played some great footy in midfield and won plenty of the footy.
 

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