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LiquidCrow

Club Legend
Oct 21, 2012
1,675
2,880
Melbourne
AFL Club
Adelaide
Tonight I was chatting to one of the nurses I used to work with and found out that there is a community fundraiser for Men's Mental Health happening on November 24 at Chirnside Park which may be of interest to those in outer east Victoria.

Looks like it could be a nice day out for a good cause with classic cars, food trucks, and an auction including plenty of footy memorabilia donated by local businesses and quite a few AFL clubs.

Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/shewontberightmate/
Event page:
 

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John Who

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 16, 2017
6,713
4,581
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Update as promised:

1) Just got home and it feels good!

2) Diagnosed with severe depression, which stems from my dependant personality type (i.e. I take my values, self worth and esteem from what others say and do, I do not establish them myself. This also impacts on me developing my own interests. I become interested in what others around me are interested in. This makes the whole concept of me having time to myself since my separation, to pursue my own interests a very difficult task ), and borderline personality (which I understand is where I will change from one mood to another. Not bi-polar as there is no mania or hyper mania, just manage to go from a depressive state to a happy state easily for example, based on what is around me. Best demonstration is my ability to be crying on my way to a meeting with clients and then being able to put the game face on immediately, perform and then get back in the car and act like it all never happened and get on with the day. Same with a disagreement with my wife, I would move on and act like it never happened).

3) Belmont hospital is great, good doctors, good nurses and great staff. Even better was my BUPA hospital cover not being adequate and them allowing me a 'once off psychiatric upgrade' in my cover so I had no waiting period. Premium went up by $35 per fortnight and excess dropped from $1000 to $500. This was such a relief as the hospital gap would have been over $400 per night. Fellow patients were pretty cool, and shows you are not alone.

4) Friends and family were amazingly supportive. A lot of calls, messages and visitors with so much encouragement and no judgement. Whist it is only representative of people in my network, I think it shows that people around you are far more accepting and will listen if you ask for help. They all just wanted what was best for me.

5) Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT) is really helpful. Split into two modules of anxiety and depression, it covers the symptoms, causes and suggested strategies for controlling your thinking and taking back your thoughts. Remarkable how possible it is, and how impossible it can seem 3 weeks ago. Also focused on gratitude, appreciation, relaxation and monitoring.

6) Lastly, completed a 'myDNA' blood test which takes a couple of weeks. Psychiatrist told me that we all metabolise medication at different rates, so often a decision to increase medication or change is more a trial and error, rather than an informed decision. My medication will be adjusted in response to the test next week. This applies to sleep meds as well I believe.

Moving forward now I have a psychologist appointment next week and we will be working on my values and understanding myself more (something that wasn't possible previously off such a low base), have weekly check-ins by the outreach program for the next 4 weeks and 2 more psychiatrist appts in the coming 4 weeks. This afternoon I see the GP to confirm a return to work schedule, which gives some anxiety as to how work will respond, but ultimately, i shouldn't worry until I get a response from them.

I am focusing on my exercise (which i developed a habit of daily in the hospital, with weights, walking and running), ensuring I make regular contact with my social network (which I had withdrawn from) and pursuing a few 'meet up' groups (a phone app) to meet people with similar interests and be out and about a lot more. The change is that I feel that it is possible and there is hope for the future, it still is on me to make the change, but again it seems possible rather than insurmountable.

I will only be engaging with my wife when it comes to matters with the kids and all other support I need, I will be going elsewhere. Her ability to be objective is quite compromised even though she cares deeply and wants to help. This also means I can start to see her my friend and a mother to my kids than an ex-lover, wife, confidant and highly cherished individual that I have 'lost'. No doubt there will be times this isn't clear for me, but spending less time around her will help for sure.

In other news, a bit of Tinder and Bumble time has meant I have started conversations with a few women which shows me again that there is possibility and my life is not 'over' when it comes to relationships (22 years since we met and faithful the whole time). While it is not the be all and end all, one of my passions is socialising (which I discovered over the last 2 weeks) and the opportunity to meet people, have conversations and a little thrill of flirting and what could happen next. Looking forward to the future.

If anyone wants to know more, share more etc, please let me know, will be happy to. I think the biggest learning I have is that it is all possible and depression/anxiety is an illness that stops you from being yourself and pushes you to judge yourself on your depressed self (does that makes sense?). You are not your depressed self.

The black dog is real my friends, but right now it is more of a puppy dog that I have to keep an eye on and ensure is trained and tamed, not ruling the yard that is my head.

Cheers
SteppingTiger
I'm quoting you again, because I've finally read through the entirety of the post. It's very rare but highly commendable for someone to recently go through an admission and then articulate their course of management so well. Thanks for sharing your recent experience, it takes a lot of courage to share your inner demons but to reach out to help others with possible similar demons.

Just one thing I picked up on that I'm curious - "borderline personality". Was that diagnosed from the psychiatrist? Borderline personality trait or disorder? The reason why I'm asking is from your post:
"borderline personality (which I understand is where I will change from one mood to another. Not bi-polar as there is no mania or hyper mania, just manage to go from a depressive state to a happy state easily for example, based on what is around me. Best demonstration is my ability to be crying on my way to a meeting with clients and then being able to put the game face on immediately, perform and then get back in the car and act like it all never happened and get on with the day. Same with a disagreement with my wife, I would move on and act like it never happened)."

What you described above could also be an indication of you having a genuine depression, but trying to stay resilient in front of others (ie. keeping a "happy face"). It might not necessarily mean you have borderline personality (trait/disorder). Hope to hear more from you regarding this, as I have an interest on the topic of BPD, particularly when one of my relatives is diagnosed with this.
 

SteppingTiger

All Australian
Feb 6, 2014
947
1,915
Brisbane
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I'm quoting you again, because I've finally read through the entirety of the post. It's very rare but highly commendable for someone to recently go through an admission and then articulate their course of management so well. Thanks for sharing your recent experience, it takes a lot of courage to share your inner demons but to reach out to help others with possible similar demons.

Just one thing I picked up on that I'm curious - "borderline personality". Was that diagnosed from the psychiatrist? Borderline personality trait or disorder? The reason why I'm asking is from your post:
"borderline personality (which I understand is where I will change from one mood to another. Not bi-polar as there is no mania or hyper mania, just manage to go from a depressive state to a happy state easily for example, based on what is around me. Best demonstration is my ability to be crying on my way to a meeting with clients and then being able to put the game face on immediately, perform and then get back in the car and act like it all never happened and get on with the day. Same with a disagreement with my wife, I would move on and act like it never happened)."

What you described above could also be an indication of you having a genuine depression, but trying to stay resilient in front of others (ie. keeping a "happy face"). It might not necessarily mean you have borderline personality (trait/disorder). Hope to hear more from you regarding this, as I have an interest on the topic of BPD, particularly when one of my relatives is diagnosed with this.
Hey mate, super drunk at a Chrissy party so probably shouldn’t reply in detail right now.

In saying that, feel free to quote/DM me to remind me that you would like a reply in the thread and I will.
 

SteppingTiger

All Australian
Feb 6, 2014
947
1,915
Brisbane
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Hey all, so the partner and I made the decision to break it off last night. Probably going to get rough as I try to find somewhere to live etc, would appreciate any resources out there for supporting blokes in this situation esp if ACT-based.
Hey mate, check my recent posts for my story/experience. Think I am the most recent in here listing a similar event and seeking help and giving an update. Help here has been good.

As per another post tonight I am at a Chrissy party so can’t reply coherently. Feel free to DM/ quote me and I will happily respond......just not when I am 18 Scotches and 1 G&T in.(the wonders of seeing the receipt from the bar tab).

Remember you have more strength that you realise, there is a future for you.

Chat soon buddy.
 

SteppingTiger

All Australian
Feb 6, 2014
947
1,915
Brisbane
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I'm quoting you again, because I've finally read through the entirety of the post. It's very rare but highly commendable for someone to recently go through an admission and then articulate their course of management so well. Thanks for sharing your recent experience, it takes a lot of courage to share your inner demons but to reach out to help others with possible similar demons.

Just one thing I picked up on that I'm curious - "borderline personality". Was that diagnosed from the psychiatrist? Borderline personality trait or disorder? The reason why I'm asking is from your post:
"borderline personality (which I understand is where I will change from one mood to another. Not bi-polar as there is no mania or hyper mania, just manage to go from a depressive state to a happy state easily for example, based on what is around me. Best demonstration is my ability to be crying on my way to a meeting with clients and then being able to put the game face on immediately, perform and then get back in the car and act like it all never happened and get on with the day. Same with a disagreement with my wife, I would move on and act like it never happened)."

What you described above could also be an indication of you having a genuine depression, but trying to stay resilient in front of others (ie. keeping a "happy face"). It might not necessarily mean you have borderline personality (trait/disorder). Hope to hear more from you regarding this, as I have an interest on the topic of BPD, particularly when one of my relatives is diagnosed with this.
HI John,

I am meeting the psychiatrist this week so will confirm for certain of trait vs disorder. I am pretty confident from the discussions it was a 'trait' as it was the dependant personality type that was a primary diagnosis and the larger of my issues.

Understand what you are referring to in regards to if it is a case of just showing resilience in the face of a depressive episode. I believe I can consciously say this isn't the case, as whilst I have had treatment for depression 3 times in my life, I can identify that my ability to switch personality / moods (that is really hard to type by the way as I definitely only have one personality, mine) has been present regardless of a depressive state.

It shows through I think with my work, as a relationship/account manager who looks to remain professional, regardless of decisions or failures of the team behind me (executive, product specialists, IT, marketing, legal all enable me to do my job but also present more challenges than clients) I go from 'your ******* kidding I need to tell the client what???' to 'we see this is a great opportunity to provide a more complete solution'......this is despite screaming blue murder in the intervening 3 minutes between the two conversations.

On a personal note it happens....my own depression in the face of the break up, could be discarded and forgotten about by a wicket in the cricket, a new movie trailer for something I want to see or a joke/song on the radio.

At least, this is the way I understand it all. Borderline Personality Disorder I believe is closer to what we colloquially use and understand as bi-polar......but not as extreme and distinct as the medical definition of bi-polar.

For myself the challenge of the switch flicking from down to happy is that addressing the problems leading to the depression becomes difficult as distraction is easy and facing them is challenging....so which do we go to? The path of least resistance. Of course, fast forward a week, a month or longer and next thing you know you are beating yourself up for failing to address those problems and identifying as a far worse, useless, pathetic human being than before.....and then a hot girl serves you at the supermarket checkout and smiles and is chatty and funny and you are no longer weak and pathetic and hopeless.......until sometime later and it happens all again....just from a lower base now, further down the hole and on a steeper slide.....until the next time.
(FYI: although that is quite dark above, I am doing fine and well for the last few weeks, I just speak honestly......after all I managed to spend Halloween in a mental hospital and organise a date for the night I was discharged! Friends that visited believe that some at the facility thought halloween had come early.....humour is our crutch)

Not suggesting your relative is depressed or going through the same process.....just how borderline personality trait has affected me.

Lastly, as a Port supporter anything borderline personality related is just par for the course....group therapy sessions begin every second week for us during the season.

Again, let me know if you have any questions or want to know more.
 

dylan93

Club Legend
Mar 16, 2011
2,079
1,494
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
A year and a bit since I last posted in here. Back into working full time in a couple weeks, also have cut out various toxic "friends" in my life that have been holding me back, constantly picking on me, etc, etc. Still on one type of medication mainly to help me sleep and does a bit for anxiety.

Also started going gym very recently for an hour each day, and have actually dropped 2 kgs in just under a week. This as well as an app such as MoodTracker I reckon can be extremely beneficial.

I've found extended family have been a great help through all of this, the bulk of my friends not so much (just goes to show that unfortunately the stigma still exists, but one day I think we'll get to the point that there's more of an understanding and at least empathy).

I'm truly in a better place now than where I was from about mid 2017 to around mid 2018. There is a light at the end of the tunnel guys, this pain is simply temporary. :)
Almost another year since I've posted in this thread. Had a new job this year but the work environment was still fairly toxic. So applied for about 20 applications and actually had a better strike rate this time around. Got offered 3 different positions, two of which are 15 minutes away from home opposed to the current 30-60+ minute daily commute. Not only that but the one I accepted will have me working alongside/under the guidance of someone I worked with for the first 6 months of this year. SO for those of you only starting out/not far away from joining the workforce, it is unfortunately more so 'who you know' and not 'what you know'.

Have heard little to nothing from those old friends of mine. But have made heaps of great new friends through my work this year. Also had an old high school friend who I hadn't seen since about 08' get back in touch with me because he found my weight loss journey and commitment towards spreading awareness around mental health inspiring. Ever since we've been catching up quite regularly which has been awesome.

Speaking of that weightloss journey. Started the year at 90.6 kgs (highest was ~100 kgs in late 2017). Cut out sugar for the most part (was drinking up to 2 cans of coke a day for quite a long time). Did the calorie counting thing for a while there (didn't last way too long), but it is good to know how many calories/kjs you require in a day. Also started taking supplements (mainly weigh protein). Got all the way down to 79.6 kgs in late July. Been a bit slack with gym as of late, but work is nearly finished for the year so I'll be getting right back into it. Been fluctuating between 79.5 & 81.5 since about May which is the longest amount of time that I've stayed at a healthy weight since I was a young child. Gym, exercise and cutting out unnecessary sugar has done wonders for my mental health. Although make sure to have cheat days and rest days. Still love smashing down a good ol' HSP and a couple beers.

Still use that MoodTracker app as well as creating checklists/to do lists. Make sure to treat yourself every now and then and buy yourself something nice. Did have a few days/weeks where I was down but make sure to do what you can to get yourself back on the right track. Think I had ~2 sessions with a new psych and that kind of helped me reset. Also still on those half tabs to help me sleep and for the most part they work well and seem to knock me out within 30 mins of taking them.

Just gotta keep chugging along. Take care everyone! :)
 

SteppingTiger

All Australian
Feb 6, 2014
947
1,915
Brisbane
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Hey all, so the partner and I made the decision to break it off last night. Probably going to get rough as I try to find somewhere to live etc, would appreciate any resources out there for supporting blokes in this situation esp if ACT-based.
Hey mate, re-read your post today whilst sober and I may have mis interpreted it.

Firstly, I thought the 'ACT Based' meant you were after assistance/experience with Acceptance Commitment Therapy (ACT), but now realise you are referring to Canberra?

Can't really suggest anything around finding places to live or support networks in Canberra other than the publicised services at the beginning of this thread, however, as people check in to this thread from time to time, you will see some suggestions come through.
 

LeverPuller

BigFooty Tanker
Jun 23, 2011
31,324
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Hey mate, re-read your post today whilst sober and I may have mis interpreted it.

Firstly, I thought the 'ACT Based' meant you were after assistance/experience with Acceptance Commitment Therapy (ACT), but now realise you are referring to Canberra?

Can't really suggest anything around finding places to live or support networks in Canberra other than the publicised services at the beginning of this thread, however, as people check in to this thread from time to time, you will see some suggestions come through.
Yes, Canberra. Think I have it under control thankfully; thanks for the support though.

Very interesting week ahead.
 

PerfectFooty

Perfect Cell
Apr 23, 2013
12,921
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Benalla
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I don't know where i am at anymore...

I really don't, i can't seem to maintain happiness for more than an hour even with medication. and even then the happiness isn't pure happiness, i don't know what that is anymore. I can't hold a thought without negativity coming in, i can't move without feeling i'm being crushed by the world. I look in every direction and i don't know where to go, because each decision i've made has been met with failure. I know things aren't always in my control, and yet i can't help but feel responcible. I live in fear, never having courage to back a decision, always second guessing myself. i don't know what the answer is, i thought i was going up.

I thought for a long time i was free of depression but instead this year decided to go against me, now i feel further from cured, not that there is a cure. Instead i've just got an increase in drugs and they don't make me feel any better. i feel as bad as ever, probably my worse since 2014. it effects me in every god damn facit. For a start i can't even do my job here properly anymore, i vannished and leave the other mods of my board alone to deal with sh*t, i avoid stuff like no tomorrow now. I stream, i try to make a fun enviroment. instead one stream i ended up crying for half n hour. i don't enjoy trips out with my family, i get snappy and moody. And yesterday i missed footy training for the first time this year. I put of chores at home and then argue, i don't shower often, i don't like going out, i put off school work and centerlink tasks. I even withdrew from a mates 21st

And yet it some ways i feel that it is deserved, i know it's me and i know what is coming to me is deserved. Everything i do doesn't warrent any luck of good things in my life. i don't shower, no wonder i can't get a relationship. i have no self esteem or confidence, no wonder i can't land a job. But as much as i hate it i allows these thoughts and feelings to grow, because i think this is the way, i should be feeling this. This is the truth and reality of me, i shouldn't accept anything good because i am not.

Now i'm just a twisted soul, conflicted, affaird and without the answers, there are no answers. i would never go so far to hurt myself because as i said i've accepted my reality, only missery, depression and pain, this is the way i should be even if i know it's unhealthy. part of me does want to break free, hence the post venting my feelings, But there is no way out for me
 

Ando727

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 12, 2009
5,954
12,357
Hobart
AFL Club
Melbourne
I don't know where i am at anymore...

I really don't, i can't seem to maintain happiness for more than an hour even with medication. and even then the happiness isn't pure happiness, i don't know what that is anymore. I can't hold a thought without negativity coming in, i can't move without feeling i'm being crushed by the world. I look in every direction and i don't know where to go, because each decision i've made has been met with failure. I know things aren't always in my control, and yet i can't help but feel responcible. I live in fear, never having courage to back a decision, always second guessing myself. i don't know what the answer is, i thought i was going up.

I thought for a long time i was free of depression but instead this year decided to go against me, now i feel further from cured, not that there is a cure. Instead i've just got an increase in drugs and they don't make me feel any better. i feel as bad as ever, probably my worse since 2014. it effects me in every god damn facit. For a start i can't even do my job here properly anymore, i vannished and leave the other mods of my board alone to deal with sh*t, i avoid stuff like no tomorrow now. I stream, i try to make a fun enviroment. instead one stream i ended up crying for half n hour. i don't enjoy trips out with my family, i get snappy and moody. And yesterday i missed footy training for the first time this year. I put of chores at home and then argue, i don't shower often, i don't like going out, i put off school work and centerlink tasks. I even withdrew from a mates 21st

And yet it some ways i feel that it is deserved, i know it's me and i know what is coming to me is deserved. Everything i do doesn't warrent any luck of good things in my life. i don't shower, no wonder i can't get a relationship. i have no self esteem or confidence, no wonder i can't land a job. But as much as i hate it i allows these thoughts and feelings to grow, because i think this is the way, i should be feeling this. This is the truth and reality of me, i shouldn't accept anything good because i am not.

Now i'm just a twisted soul, conflicted, affaird and without the answers, there are no answers. i would never go so far to hurt myself because as i said i've accepted my reality, only missery, depression and pain, this is the way i should be even if i know it's unhealthy. part of me does want to break free, hence the post venting my feelings, But there is no way out for me
Mate, that's a pretty rough spot you're in right now. Your self-esteem is at critically low levels - that's clear from how much you talk yourself down and denigrate yourself. Don't forget that our brains become specialised at what we do most of. Your brain is now a specialist "you-criticiser". It's not even looking for signs of things you are good at - it's only interested in seeing failure. This becomes habitual, then obsessive if left unchecked. For this reason, your only way out of this is to become a different kind of specialist - a you-improver, and a you-encourager. It means you have to get out of the business of having running commentaries of how crap you are. You have to actively stop yourself every time you do it. It also means doing a complete inventory of your strengths - and work to those. Find ways where you can use whatever positive attributes you have - even as a volunteer. There has been a recent trend towards practicing "gratefulness" - that is doing a regular inventory of things that you can be grateful for. Even the most basic comparison to somebody who grew up in Ethiopia or the Sudan will make you see a dozen reasons why you should be grateful for being born in Australia. There's more to it than that, but that's a beginning. You'll probably need somebody to help you practice accessing this stuff, as well as implementing strategies to stop being a you-criticiser. No doubt you've already got a therapist, but you need to find a very good one, and one that you click with. By the way, psychiatrists are not therapists. They are drug dealers who don't understand anything about emotions or changing thought patterns. If you are only under the care of a psychiatrist, find a good psychologist.

Finally, people have been just as down and out as you and managed to turn things around. Don't give up. I was bloody useless for about 8 years in my life. 10 years later, I'm happy, I've got a partner, a child, a house. I really didn't see any of that happening at my lowest point. I was just waiting around to die, quite frankly. The first step I took was getting a puppy. He became a focus and a respite from negativity, and then became a trusted companion. You can't be a sad sack all the time with a dog that loves you. I think he opened my heart to letting more good things in. Something you might consider, perhaps. I also believe I have become excellent at being grateful for what I have. It doesn't mean I forgot about being psychologically abused by my father, or any number of tough experiences I had, but I can still recognise that I am luckier than most of the world's population. I never starved, I never went to war, I never lived in terror, I never experienced racism or discrimination, I wasn't denied an education, or the chance to read and learn, I wasn't born a girl in a country that enslaves women - the list is endless. If I were negative I could come up with a long list of things I'm not grateful for, but that doesn't change the fact that I have so many things to be grateful for. I think you need to get yourself on this train, as well as finding an avenue to work better with yourself instead of being your own judge jury and executioner.

Hope that helps in some way. You're welcome to contact me for support anytime, here or via PM. There are plenty of great people here who can suggest helpful things to you. You just need to keep an open mind to letting things change. Take care, mate.
 

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mxett

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 1, 2007
24,208
9,917
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Mate, that's a pretty rough spot you're in right now. Your self-esteem is at critically low levels - that's clear from how much you talk yourself down and denigrate yourself. Don't forget that our brains become specialised at what we do most of. Your brain is now a specialist "you-criticiser". It's not even looking for signs of things you are good at - it's only interested in seeing failure. This becomes habitual, then obsessive if left unchecked. For this reason, your only way out of this is to become a different kind of specialist - a you-improver, and a you-encourager. It means you have to get out of the business of having running commentaries of how crap you are. You have to actively stop yourself every time you do it. It also means doing a complete inventory of your strengths - and work to those. Find ways where you can use whatever positive attributes you have - even as a volunteer. There has been a recent trend towards practicing "gratefulness" - that is doing a regular inventory of things that you can be grateful for. Even the most basic comparison to somebody who grew up in Ethiopia or the Sudan will make you see a dozen reasons why you should be grateful for being born in Australia. There's more to it than that, but that's a beginning. You'll probably need somebody to help you practice accessing this stuff, as well as implementing strategies to stop being a you-criticiser. No doubt you've already got a therapist, but you need to find a very good one, and one that you click with. By the way, psychiatrists are not therapists. They are drug dealers who don't understand anything about emotions or changing thought patterns. If you are only under the care of a psychiatrist, find a good psychologist.

Finally, people have been just as down and out as you and managed to turn things around. Don't give up. I was bloody useless for about 8 years in my life. 10 years later, I'm happy, I've got a partner, a child, a house. I really didn't see any of that happening at my lowest point. I was just waiting around to die, quite frankly. The first step I took was getting a puppy. He became a focus and a respite from negativity, and then became a trusted companion. You can't be a sad sack all the time with a dog that loves you. I think he opened my heart to letting more good things in. Something you might consider, perhaps. I also believe I have become excellent at being grateful for what I have. It doesn't mean I forgot about being psychologically abused by my father, or any number of tough experiences I had, but I can still recognise that I am luckier than most of the world's population. I never starved, I never went to war, I never lived in terror, I never experienced racism or discrimination, I wasn't denied an education, or the chance to read and learn, I wasn't born a girl in a country that enslaves women - the list is endless. If I were negative I could come up with a long list of things I'm not grateful for, but that doesn't change the fact that I have so many things to be grateful for. I think you need to get yourself on this train, as well as finding an avenue to work better with yourself instead of being your own judge jury and executioner.

Hope that helps in some way. You're welcome to contact me for support anytime, here or via PM. There are plenty of great people here who can suggest helpful things to you. You just need to keep an open mind to letting things change. Take care, mate.
I'd like this post 3 times if I could. Super advice as always Ando
 

mxett

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 1, 2007
24,208
9,917
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
I don't know where i am at anymore...

I really don't, i can't seem to maintain happiness for more than an hour even with medication. and even then the happiness isn't pure happiness, i don't know what that is anymore. I can't hold a thought without negativity coming in, i can't move without feeling i'm being crushed by the world. I look in every direction and i don't know where to go, because each decision i've made has been met with failure. I know things aren't always in my control, and yet i can't help but feel responcible. I live in fear, never having courage to back a decision, always second guessing myself. i don't know what the answer is, i thought i was going up.

I thought for a long time i was free of depression but instead this year decided to go against me, now i feel further from cured, not that there is a cure. Instead i've just got an increase in drugs and they don't make me feel any better. i feel as bad as ever, probably my worse since 2014. it effects me in every god damn facit. For a start i can't even do my job here properly anymore, i vannished and leave the other mods of my board alone to deal with sh*t, i avoid stuff like no tomorrow now. I stream, i try to make a fun enviroment. instead one stream i ended up crying for half n hour. i don't enjoy trips out with my family, i get snappy and moody. And yesterday i missed footy training for the first time this year. I put of chores at home and then argue, i don't shower often, i don't like going out, i put off school work and centerlink tasks. I even withdrew from a mates 21st

And yet it some ways i feel that it is deserved, i know it's me and i know what is coming to me is deserved. Everything i do doesn't warrent any luck of good things in my life. i don't shower, no wonder i can't get a relationship. i have no self esteem or confidence, no wonder i can't land a job. But as much as i hate it i allows these thoughts and feelings to grow, because i think this is the way, i should be feeling this. This is the truth and reality of me, i shouldn't accept anything good because i am not.

Now i'm just a twisted soul, conflicted, affaird and without the answers, there are no answers. i would never go so far to hurt myself because as i said i've accepted my reality, only missery, depression and pain, this is the way i should be even if i know it's unhealthy. part of me does want to break free, hence the post venting my feelings, But there is no way out for me
Life becomes a tough gig when our mind becomes our biggest critic and we believe everything it says. The first part is completely normal, our minds are pre-programmed for self-criticism to help us identify issues so we can make the necessary changes to remain accepted by our 'tribe'. We naturally compare ourselves to others, usually judging ourselves far more harshly in comparison. Basically, we have a predisposition for negative bias against ourselves and our circumstances. If we pay attention and believe every negative thought, we can experience distress.

Things that have helped me in this area:

- Mindfulness. The act of meditation can be relaxing and all that, but this is a side benefit. The main benefit is learning to identify when we are caught in thoughts (which are usually negative), identify them as merely thoughts (even if true), and return to the present moment. With practice you can identify and observe negative or judgemental thoughts as merely our natural negative bias, and let them go on their way without any negative impact. Once you really learn to observe your 'default' thoughts as just meaningless noise you will feel an amazing sense of freedom. But it does take some practice.

- Gratitude (as Ando rightly said). Being grateful for what we have, even the small things, can lift our mood very quickly. This becomes a habit when practiced regularly.

- Compassion for others (and ourselves). I find when I make others feel good about themselves through compliments, friendliness or compassion, it makes me feel that bit better. I go out of my way to do this these days.

- Acceptance. This is key for me. Accept that negative emotions and thoughts are part of life, just like happiness and joy. Accepting them allows us to ride these emotions without struggle until they pass on their own. Also, accept your current circumstances. Doesnt mean you cant seek change. But this is how things are right now, not forever.

There are so many good books covering the above areas which are well worth reading. Seeing a psychologist can also help. Consoling in others, as you have here, can also help. You'd be surprised how common your challenges are when you start talking to people. Good luck
I doubt this is a helpful claim, though.
Pretty much spot on though. Psychiatrists primarily work with medications. Where they believe therapy will be of benefit they usually outsource this to a psychologist.
 

Shane Heard

Premiership Player
Mar 11, 2018
3,175
5,557
AFL Club
Essendon
I don't know where i am at anymore...

I really don't, i can't seem to maintain happiness for more than an hour even with medication. and even then the happiness isn't pure happiness, i don't know what that is anymore. I can't hold a thought without negativity coming in, i can't move without feeling i'm being crushed by the world. I look in every direction and i don't know where to go, because each decision i've made has been met with failure. I know things aren't always in my control, and yet i can't help but feel responcible. I live in fear, never having courage to back a decision, always second guessing myself. i don't know what the answer is, i thought i was going up.

I thought for a long time i was free of depression but instead this year decided to go against me, now i feel further from cured, not that there is a cure. Instead i've just got an increase in drugs and they don't make me feel any better. i feel as bad as ever, probably my worse since 2014. it effects me in every god damn facit. For a start i can't even do my job here properly anymore, i vannished and leave the other mods of my board alone to deal with sh*t, i avoid stuff like no tomorrow now. I stream, i try to make a fun enviroment. instead one stream i ended up crying for half n hour. i don't enjoy trips out with my family, i get snappy and moody. And yesterday i missed footy training for the first time this year. I put of chores at home and then argue, i don't shower often, i don't like going out, i put off school work and centerlink tasks. I even withdrew from a mates 21st

And yet it some ways i feel that it is deserved, i know it's me and i know what is coming to me is deserved. Everything i do doesn't warrent any luck of good things in my life. i don't shower, no wonder i can't get a relationship. i have no self esteem or confidence, no wonder i can't land a job. But as much as i hate it i allows these thoughts and feelings to grow, because i think this is the way, i should be feeling this. This is the truth and reality of me, i shouldn't accept anything good because i am not.

Now i'm just a twisted soul, conflicted, affaird and without the answers, there are no answers. i would never go so far to hurt myself because as i said i've accepted my reality, only missery, depression and pain, this is the way i should be even if i know it's unhealthy. part of me does want to break free, hence the post venting my feelings, But there is no way out for me
Small steps mate. Small steps taken to improve your overall state of mind.
First one would be to get rid of all drugs completely out of your life. If it’s pot, all the more important to get rid of it. Smoking pot while depressed will only amplify things. If it anything stronger..get off it asap. Drinking too.

Then start moving..running, walking or anything that gets your heart rate up. Build up some endorphins and use physical exercise as your new drug of choice.

Get off all social media. Including BF. And stay off it for a few months.

Clean up your room. Make your bed every day. Start the day with a shower and wear fresh clean clothes. Take pride in your appearance..even though you still might feel crap on the day.

Do all these things and more for a month and you’ll probably get confidence to crack in and get a job.

Small steps at a time.

Start a diary today and write down your thoughts. Read them back at the end of each week.

Connect with your friends and be grateful for their friendship.

All the best.
 

John Who

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 16, 2017
6,713
4,581
AFL Club
Adelaide
HI John,

I am meeting the psychiatrist this week so will confirm for certain of trait vs disorder. I am pretty confident from the discussions it was a 'trait' as it was the dependant personality type that was a primary diagnosis and the larger of my issues.

Understand what you are referring to in regards to if it is a case of just showing resilience in the face of a depressive episode. I believe I can consciously say this isn't the case, as whilst I have had treatment for depression 3 times in my life, I can identify that my ability to switch personality / moods (that is really hard to type by the way as I definitely only have one personality, mine) has been present regardless of a depressive state.

It shows through I think with my work, as a relationship/account manager who looks to remain professional, regardless of decisions or failures of the team behind me (executive, product specialists, IT, marketing, legal all enable me to do my job but also present more challenges than clients) I go from 'your ******* kidding I need to tell the client what???' to 'we see this is a great opportunity to provide a more complete solution'......this is despite screaming blue murder in the intervening 3 minutes between the two conversations.

On a personal note it happens....my own depression in the face of the break up, could be discarded and forgotten about by a wicket in the cricket, a new movie trailer for something I want to see or a joke/song on the radio.

At least, this is the way I understand it all. Borderline Personality Disorder I believe is closer to what we colloquially use and understand as bi-polar......but not as extreme and distinct as the medical definition of bi-polar.

For myself the challenge of the switch flicking from down to happy is that addressing the problems leading to the depression becomes difficult as distraction is easy and facing them is challenging....so which do we go to? The path of least resistance. Of course, fast forward a week, a month or longer and next thing you know you are beating yourself up for failing to address those problems and identifying as a far worse, useless, pathetic human being than before.....and then a hot girl serves you at the supermarket checkout and smiles and is chatty and funny and you are no longer weak and pathetic and hopeless.......until sometime later and it happens all again....just from a lower base now, further down the hole and on a steeper slide.....until the next time.
(FYI: although that is quite dark above, I am doing fine and well for the last few weeks, I just speak honestly......after all I managed to spend Halloween in a mental hospital and organise a date for the night I was discharged! Friends that visited believe that some at the facility thought halloween had come early.....humour is our crutch)

Not suggesting your relative is depressed or going through the same process.....just how borderline personality trait has affected me.

Lastly, as a Port supporter anything borderline personality related is just par for the course....group therapy sessions begin every second week for us during the season.

Again, let me know if you have any questions or want to know more.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. It is encouraging to see you progress in the recent weeks and seemingly more thick-skinned. Have you got the answer to trait vs disorder? My bets lie with “trait”..

Though I just want to give you a tip. Don’t be discouraged by the labelling of so many psychiatric terms. Rather, think of it as a tool for the professionals to know how to manage you the best they can, and for yourself to know how to deal with life when things turn darker.

Think of it as a doctor saying you have “glucose intolerance, dyslipidemia and an overweight issue”. It might be early stage findings and you don’t have any complications as yet, but the labelling is there for you to know how to best approach your body to further improve it. Hope that helps! :)
 

John Who

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 16, 2017
6,713
4,581
AFL Club
Adelaide
I don't know where i am at anymore...

I really don't, i can't seem to maintain happiness for more than an hour even with medication. and even then the happiness isn't pure happiness, i don't know what that is anymore. I can't hold a thought without negativity coming in, i can't move without feeling i'm being crushed by the world. I look in every direction and i don't know where to go, because each decision i've made has been met with failure. I know things aren't always in my control, and yet i can't help but feel responcible. I live in fear, never having courage to back a decision, always second guessing myself. i don't know what the answer is, i thought i was going up.

I thought for a long time i was free of depression but instead this year decided to go against me, now i feel further from cured, not that there is a cure. Instead i've just got an increase in drugs and they don't make me feel any better. i feel as bad as ever, probably my worse since 2014. it effects me in every god damn facit. For a start i can't even do my job here properly anymore, i vannished and leave the other mods of my board alone to deal with sh*t, i avoid stuff like no tomorrow now. I stream, i try to make a fun enviroment. instead one stream i ended up crying for half n hour. i don't enjoy trips out with my family, i get snappy and moody. And yesterday i missed footy training for the first time this year. I put of chores at home and then argue, i don't shower often, i don't like going out, i put off school work and centerlink tasks. I even withdrew from a mates 21st

And yet it some ways i feel that it is deserved, i know it's me and i know what is coming to me is deserved. Everything i do doesn't warrent any luck of good things in my life. i don't shower, no wonder i can't get a relationship. i have no self esteem or confidence, no wonder i can't land a job. But as much as i hate it i allows these thoughts and feelings to grow, because i think this is the way, i should be feeling this. This is the truth and reality of me, i shouldn't accept anything good because i am not.

Now i'm just a twisted soul, conflicted, affaird and without the answers, there are no answers. i would never go so far to hurt myself because as i said i've accepted my reality, only missery, depression and pain, this is the way i should be even if i know it's unhealthy. part of me does want to break free, hence the post venting my feelings, But there is no way out for me
Already a lot of great responses to your post. I just wanted to say your post represents what I would say have happened to me on several occasions (and I’m guessing several others on this thread). I call it “the state of living in limbo”. Not wishing it on anyone!

Please have a serious chat with your GP/psychologist/psychiatrist. If your mind seems overloaded and only seemingly worsening, then you might consider discussing whether hospital treatment is warranted?
 

Ando727

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 12, 2009
5,954
12,357
Hobart
AFL Club
Melbourne
I doubt this is a helpful claim, though.
I can understand why you would react that way. There was some hyperbole in what I said, but it's only because I've seen a lot of people fall by the wayside with regard to mental health treatment due to being treated purely on the "medical" or "chemical imbalance" model.

The vast majority of people who suffer from depression and anxiety need cognitive and behavioural therapy first and foremost, and also psychodynamic type therapy to process past traumas, limiting self-beliefs, abusive experiences, and other serious issues. Anti-depressant and anti-anxiety medication can be an adjunct to this therapy, but on its own it's basically useless.

Unfortunately, a lot of people wind up at psychiatrists who pay scant regard to their emotional issues and prescribe meds right off the bat. This is not the way to handle this. It needs a much more holistic approach. Psychiatrist's generally disrespect and disregard psychology and call it "unscientific". They have a mechanistic view of the human body and they don't treat the mind much differently. Of course there are exceptions to this, and also dangerously incompetent psychologists too, but by and large, psychiatry is a risky way to manage your mind for most people. I don't think anybody's mental health should be exclusively in the hands of a psychiatrist. They leave a lot of people worse off than when they started because they are famously poor at relating to patients on an emotional level and if the meds don't help, the patient can be left feeling utterly without hope. Generalisations, sure, but not without merit.
 

SteppingTiger

All Australian
Feb 6, 2014
947
1,915
Brisbane
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I don't know where i am at anymore...

I really don't, i can't seem to maintain happiness for more than an hour even with medication. and even then the happiness isn't pure happiness, i don't know what that is anymore. I can't hold a thought without negativity coming in, i can't move without feeling i'm being crushed by the world. I look in every direction and i don't know where to go, because each decision i've made has been met with failure. I know things aren't always in my control, and yet i can't help but feel responcible. I live in fear, never having courage to back a decision, always second guessing myself. i don't know what the answer is, i thought i was going up.

I thought for a long time i was free of depression but instead this year decided to go against me, now i feel further from cured, not that there is a cure. Instead i've just got an increase in drugs and they don't make me feel any better. i feel as bad as ever, probably my worse since 2014. it effects me in every god damn facit. For a start i can't even do my job here properly anymore, i vannished and leave the other mods of my board alone to deal with sh*t, i avoid stuff like no tomorrow now. I stream, i try to make a fun enviroment. instead one stream i ended up crying for half n hour. i don't enjoy trips out with my family, i get snappy and moody. And yesterday i missed footy training for the first time this year. I put of chores at home and then argue, i don't shower often, i don't like going out, i put off school work and centerlink tasks. I even withdrew from a mates 21st

And yet it some ways i feel that it is deserved, i know it's me and i know what is coming to me is deserved. Everything i do doesn't warrent any luck of good things in my life. i don't shower, no wonder i can't get a relationship. i have no self esteem or confidence, no wonder i can't land a job. But as much as i hate it i allows these thoughts and feelings to grow, because i think this is the way, i should be feeling this. This is the truth and reality of me, i shouldn't accept anything good because i am not.

Now i'm just a twisted soul, conflicted, affaird and without the answers, there are no answers. i would never go so far to hurt myself because as i said i've accepted my reality, only missery, depression and pain, this is the way i should be even if i know it's unhealthy. part of me does want to break free, hence the post venting my feelings, But there is no way out for me
Hey mate, sorry to hear how you are feeling. Many here can relate with their own stories, you are not alone in this.

I can recognise your pain and refer to my recent post #1427 in this thread only a page back, 2.5 months ago, but a lifetime of difference ago too.

1) medication not working, is usually a sign it is not right for you. My psychiatrist completed a ‘myDNA’ test to see how I metabolised certain medications and it was a real insight. Whilst it appeared the standard Zoloft/Sertraline was helping, over time all the GP did was increase it (each time I went through a depressive phase). Turns out I was metabolising very fast. Diazepam too, was barely touching the sides, explained why after a week or so I could have two of them and even with a few whiskey chasers, if I didn’t fall asleep within 20 mins, I was awake and not impacted by them.

New meds work great and will be working on reducing them once a couple more lifestyle improvements are made.

2) are you seeing a psychologist? I got the impression you weren’t, perhaps seeing a GP only? The GPS are great to get you started and onto a mental health plan and a referral to a psychologist. If you are not aware Medicare will cover about $115 per visit for 6 visits, plus another 4 after review (GP review, not a govt social worker/assessment). Whilst it doesn’t cover the whole cost, it certainly puts a dent in it. Also, if a psychologist doesn’t feel like the right fit, you can change to another.

3) even before the mental health plan/GP route. Many employers offer an EAP (employee assistant program) that extends to family members, so if you are not working, your parents, siblings etc can likely get you an appt. my experience is these are a good place to start, 4 free hours with a counsellor who can listen and start assisting, but most importantly share what your options are.

4) in patient program was mentioned by someone else. I can personally vouch for this as that was my October 2019 for 18 days and it was the best thing I could have done. The GP has to refer it. Cost can seem scary but if you have private health cover it can be almost no cost....I get the impression you are early 20’s at most, so you may be under your parents cover if they have it. My health fund even allowed me to upgrade and not have a waiting period for the psych hospital cover. The break from the day to day, being surrounded by support and the regular activities along with the cognitive based therapy program was such a game changer for me.

5) cognitive based therapy- it helps you to understand and control your thoughts rather than letting them run away on you. Remember you are looking at many things through a depressive mind or lens, everything will look or turn bad. It makes it very difficult for finding the positive, the happy and the grateful thoughts. If there aren’t options for you in the care system, try to get an Ebook/ library book n CBT or similar.

Lastly, if you think there is nothing or no-one else to turn to, we are here. You clearly took a brave and positive first step to reach out here, so you are clearly capable and the peeps are happy to assist. Happy to respond to your posts or a DM if you prefer.

Be good to hear from you soon.
 

John Who

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 16, 2017
6,713
4,581
AFL Club
Adelaide
I can understand why you would react that way. There was some hyperbole in what I said, but it's only because I've seen a lot of people fall by the wayside with regard to mental health treatment due to being treated purely on the "medical" or "chemical imbalance" model.

The vast majority of people who suffer from depression and anxiety need cognitive and behavioural therapy first and foremost, and also psychodynamic type therapy to process past traumas, limiting self-beliefs, abusive experiences, and other serious issues. Anti-depressant and anti-anxiety medication can be an adjunct to this therapy, but on its own it's basically useless.

Unfortunately, a lot of people wind up at psychiatrists who pay scant regard to their emotional issues and prescribe meds right off the bat. This is not the way to handle this. It needs a much more holistic approach. Psychiatrist's generally disrespect and disregard psychology and call it "unscientific". They have a mechanistic view of the human body and they don't treat the mind much differently. Of course there are exceptions to this, and also dangerously incompetent psychologists too, but by and large, psychiatry is a risky way to manage your mind for most people. I don't think anybody's mental health should be exclusively in the hands of a psychiatrist. They leave a lot of people worse off than when they started because they are famously poor at relating to patients on an emotional level and if the meds don't help, the patient can be left errfeeling utterly without hope. Generalisations, sure, but not without merit.
I can see the general point you’re making, though I think it’s a bit of an overgeneralisation that “psychiatrists generally disrespect and disregard psychology and call it “unscientific” “.

I believe what you’re implying is that psychotherapy/counseling is what benefits all cases, whereas medications alone do not. Am I right in summarising your point?

How I view mental illness is that there are 2 main groups:
1. Reactive (to environmental stress triggers)
2. Biological (born with a brain weakness or chemical imbalance).

You can also have combinations of the above in varying degrees. Once you figure out the individual cause, then you can target your treatment approach:
1. Reactive => counseling, CBT, psychologist (mostly what you are emphasising)
2. Biological => medications, psychiatrist.

I see GPs, psychologists, counselors and psychiatrists are all important health professionals depending on the individual needs of the mental illness sufferer.
 

SteppingTiger

All Australian
Feb 6, 2014
947
1,915
Brisbane
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I can see the general point you’re making, though I think it’s a bit of an overgeneralisation that “psychiatrists generally disrespect and disregard psychology and call it “unscientific” “.

I believe what you’re implying is that psychotherapy/counseling is what benefits all cases, whereas medications alone do not. Am I right in summarising your point?

How I view mental illness is that there are 2 main groups:
1. Reactive (to environmental stress triggers)
2. Biological (born with a brain weakness or chemical imbalance).

You can also have combinations of the above in varying degrees. Once you figure out the individual cause, then you can target your treatment approach:
1. Reactive => counseling, CBT, psychologist (mostly what you are emphasising)
2. Biological => medications, psychiatrist.

I see GPs, psychologists, counselors and psychiatrists are all important health professionals depending on the individual needs of the mental illness sufferer.
My simple take on this.

The medication helps get you out of the mire and see some light, the rest gets you to it.
 

Ando727

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 12, 2009
5,954
12,357
Hobart
AFL Club
Melbourne
I can see the general point you’re making, though I think it’s a bit of an overgeneralisation that “psychiatrists generally disrespect and disregard psychology and call it “unscientific” “.

I believe what you’re implying is that psychotherapy/counseling is what benefits all cases, whereas medications alone do not. Am I right in summarising your point?

How I view mental illness is that there are 2 main groups:
1. Reactive (to environmental stress triggers)
2. Biological (born with a brain weakness or chemical imbalance).

You can also have combinations of the above in varying degrees. Once you figure out the individual cause, then you can target your treatment approach:
1. Reactive => counseling, CBT, psychologist (mostly what you are emphasising)
2. Biological => medications, psychiatrist.

I see GPs, psychologists, counselors and psychiatrists are all important health professionals depending on the individual needs of the mental illness sufferer.
It seems unpopular to criticise psychiatry here, so this will be the last thing I say about it. Suffice to say, I have personal experience, friend's and acquaintances' experiences, and read countless case studies which has helped to form my opinion. If anybody is interested in it, you can PM me for more details. I was quite clear in not damning all psychiatrists in my posts, but I do think the psychiatric industry as a whole has some major problems. To anybody who is getting good care from a psychiatrist: I congratulate you on finding a good one. To anybody else: I'm not saying don't see one, there are some good ones, but be wary and trust your instincts if something doesn't feel right, because a bad one can really set you back in your recovery.
 

John Who

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 16, 2017
6,713
4,581
AFL Club
Adelaide
It seems unpopular to criticise psychiatry here, so this will be the last thing I say about it. Suffice to say, I have personal experience, friend's and acquaintances' experiences, and read countless case studies which has helped to form my opinion. If anybody is interested in it, you can PM me for more details. I was quite clear in not damning all psychiatrists in my posts, but I do think the psychiatric industry as a whole has some major problems. To anybody who is getting good care from a psychiatrist: I congratulate you on finding a good one. To anybody else: I'm not saying don't see one, there are some good ones, but be wary and trust your instincts if something doesn't feel right, because a bad one can really set you back in your recovery.
The ones that focuses purely on medications and not suggesting alternative approaches should indeed be avoided. However, most psychiatrists should understand the values of psychotherapy/counseling/relaxation techniques. The same issue with most psychologists should be somewhat appreciative of psychiatric medications being used for relevant cases.

I personally think the issue is that there are good and bad eggs in all fields/jobs. It’s more the issue of seeing the right professional for the right needs. Also, mental illness isn’t an exact science - what works the last time, may not work for this time or the next one. So patience is the key, and figuring out the right avenues to treatment is the aim.
 

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