Resource Depression/Anxiety the silent killers - everyday is RUOK day. #SpeakUpStayChatTy

DarkPhoenix

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Thanks guys, your messages have meant more than you'll ever know.

Family has arrived from England and we're going through all the processes, beginning the clean out of the house etc.

Found a few hilarious things as we've done so:

A picture of nan, cigarette in hand in the 50s - She was vocally against smoking
A letter detailing nan having an affair with her second husband (her first was abusive) and being told she was being watched of a weekend.

Then theres the sweet things, a copy of my graduation pamphlet, pictures we never knew she had, a newspaper clipping from 1941 regarding her sister passing away
 

Snake_Baker

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I don't quite connect with the whole depression thing, probably due to my single-minded approach to many things in life, which has it's benefits and also has it's shortcomings.

All I can add from a distance is to ask folks who are experiencing loss, or the blues, is to truly evaluate what the people that care for you in your life would want for you in regards to yourself, and utilise that source to drive yourself ever onward.

After all, it's the only sane choice you have.

Get out there and kick MUCH arse!

 

ferball

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I've been thinking about stuff.

I don't think depression is the right term for what kills people to be honest.

I've been thinking about this since the other day when I saw Swatta's speech. It reminded me of the Satre quote I stuck in the trade thread a little while ago this morning.

“it is on the far side of despair that life begins”

Despair is a hard thing. Its the absence of any hope or desire to experience the future.

Imo its the part of depression that will kill you if you don't find some way thru it.

There's probably a clinical definition for despair in the way there is for depression but I'm not talking about that.

I'm talking the visceral experience of it. Of when shit gets so bad you have no faith in the future or in existence.

How do you get thru that? All those things you mentioned:

Snake_Baker said:

All I can add from a distance is to ask folks who are experiencing loss, or the blues, is to truly evaluate what the people that care for you in your life would want for you in regards to yourself, and utilise that source to drive yourself ever onward.

After all, it's the only sane choice you have.


Firstly thanks.

Secondly - These things are impossible to conceptualise when you are ... I dunno in the abyss for seasons - ie as time passes and cycles thru year after year without an end to it. (yes - i am thinking of the Slayer song.)

You don't see choices, you don't see what your loved ones want for you, and you certainly don't see the best in yourself. Its a temporary thing tho.

But (like heroic doses of good psychedelics,) it can seem eternal.

When you are in it and there is (seemingly) no way out.

I get it but I'm not suicidal.

I need to stress that.

I dunno if I could say that years ago tho.

I've done alot of drugs, as I've mentioned before, but I've done alot of other stuff too.

Its a pretty common initiation thing among men, well boys becoming men, across the world, in so called primative societies, to go thru an experience they are told is death during their initiations into adulthood. So as a young man I kind of chased this and sitting in the bush tripping balls while your dead ancestors come out of the ground to hug you is a fu**en wild experience whatever its objective "reality".

It gives you a strength that you probably can't even comprehend before you experience it.

I've never not felt connected to them since those times.

I've never felt disconnected since those times. No matter how bad things get. (To anything. My ancestors, the world whatever else there is.)



I'm not saying take drugs and go tripping.

FFS don't. I can't stress that enough. I did this stuff in a relatively healthy frame of mind, as part of an ongoing process of healing my mind, and it was only after i was strong enough to contemplate it. I was able to take responsibility for myself, had clear goals and was well acquainted with rituals, other techniques for mental focus like visualisation (the sort sportspeople should be doing all the time) and am a stubborn prick who doesn't like to lose. Unless you are up to that I guess but don't do it on my recommendation.

But I am saying ... find some way to connect to things. To the world. To existence.
Find something to anchor yourself in. Search your DNA for a way to connect with your ancestors if you want - meditate on it and visulaise it.

Imagine being at the top of a pyramid (or the one layer below the top if you're holding up your kids) and below you stretching back to the start of life are all your ancestors.

You carry the code that gave them life within you. It doesn't have to be metaphysical or religious (tho to me there may be something along those lines there). What it is is sacred in some way. It connects you to them and it stretches back for hundreds of millions billions of years. The odds of you being here and keeping that amazing chain of life going so far for so long .. they are incredibly short. Its literally a miracle that any of us are here at all.

Feel them there. Holding you up when you can't hold yourself up. You are the eye on top of a pyramid and there at the base of that pyramid is the last common ancestor of all life on earth - 3+ billion years ago.

All of that life wants you to succeed. To pass the code on if you can and to use it to your fullest whether you can pass it on or not.

Sorry for the long rave but tying that comment as a smart arse response to King Corey really got me thinking.

i reckon there's no point making a pithy comment like that unless you can add something helpful to it.

Life begins on the far side of despair.

It may seem hard to get there but you are connected to the things that will help you when you can't help yourself.

You just might not realise that yet.
 

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Val Keating

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Heard about SGB (Stellate Ganglion Block) today. A US marine named Dakota Meyer was talking about it, said it gave him relief almost straight away. Sounds too good to be true. I’m going to run it by my psychiatrist and see what she thinks.

 

ferball

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Heard about SGB (Stellate Ganglion Block) today. A US marine named Dakota Meyer was talking about it, said it gave him relief almost straight away. Sounds too good to be true. I’m going to run it by my psychiatrist and see what she thinks.

I first heard about this years ago with some guy in the NT - a horse breeder - who had anger control issues and had it done after punching one of his favorite/best horses to death. (Dunno how true the "to death" part is but its the story I heard.) Worked immediately and permanently iirc. I used to plant trees with a guy who was involved with that specific procedure in a "former life". I presume its the same treatment as what he described seems very similar. (My mate was a psych nurse in Sydney who quit cos it was too much after a few years.) Its an old therapy - been around forever.

I think PTSD had something to do with this guys anger issues. IIRC he was also barred from nearly every pub in the NT. So he was definitely out there.

Its just an anecdote and I heard it over 20 years ago planting trees with this guy but it stuck with me.

There is also evidence mounting that Psilocibin, MDMA and CBDs from pot are among the most effective PTSD treatments available if used in conjunction with good clinical therapy.
 

Val Keating

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I first heard about this years ago with some guy in the NT - a horse breeder - who had anger control issues and had it done after punching one of his favorite/best horses to death. (Dunno how true the "to death" part is but its the story I heard.) Worked immediately and permanently iirc. I used to plant trees with a guy who was involved with that specific procedure in a "former life". I presume its the same treatment as what he described seems very similar. (My mate was a psych nurse in Sydney who quit cos it was too much after a few years.) Its an old therapy - been around forever.

I think PTSD had something to do with this guys anger issues. IIRC he was also barred from nearly every pub in the NT. So he was definitely out there.

Its just an anecdote and I heard it over 20 years ago planting trees with this guy but it stuck with me.

There is also evidence mounting that Psilocibin, MDMA and CBDs from pot are among the most effective PTSD treatments available if used in conjunction with good clinical therapy.
Imagine an injection in the neck resetting that part of your brain that has the flight or flight setting on high alert all the time. Man that would be magic. So sick of being on edge. Ive been working with a EMDR specialist for ages now and haven’t even got to the stage where we can get to the actual therapy. Finally next week we’re starting a block of 5x90 minute sessions. If that doesn’t do anything I’m going for the neck injection. Sometimes i wonder if staying in therapy stops me from moving on.
 

ferball

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Imagine an injection in the neck resetting that part of your brain that has the flight or flight setting on high alert all the time. Man that would be magic. So sick of being on edge. Ive been working with a EMDR specialist for ages now and haven’t even got to the stage where we can get to the actual therapy. Finally next week we’re starting a block of 5x90 minute sessions. If that doesn’t do anything I’m going for the neck injection. Sometimes i wonder if staying in therapy stops me from moving on.
I once had a book called We've had 100 years of psychotherapy and the world is getting worse.

It may have a point.

EMDR. I might have a book that talks abit about that lying around. If I find it I'll give it a read and tell you if there's anything worth checking out.

FWIW ... This isn't anything official just my opinion.

Most states of mind are a form of trance.

PTSD is just another one, when its triggered. Some trances are good, some obviously aren't and what really matters is being able to control your attention and direct where it needs to be. This is obviously easier said than done. But not as hard as it probably seems. The sort of trance you are in when you are working, especially carpentry, is a form of meditation that be really healthy for people.

Sometimes memory triggers and eye movements are connected. So you might move your eyes up and to the right when remembering something, or you might move them somewhere else. I can't remember the specifics off hand. And there's more than that one idea or association. EMDR seems to be involved with interfering with that physical process and specific neural circuitry when its associated with the traumatic memory. But don't quote me, check with your therapist. (I could be wrong and it may use some other mechanism.)

By interfering I mean changing what happens as the trance that you enter (as you suffer an episode of PTSD) begins. Short circuiting it.

Being mindful and conscious of these processes will make them heaps better and more effective. Its like when you first learned to use your tools. Or to kick a footy, throw a punch or any other skill.

I dunno if you already know this or not. And hopefully your therapist is telling this sort of thing. Even if EMDR is some other process what i'm talking about is helpful. Identifying triggers then what follows them as a process happens is good cos it gives you the chance to develop strategies to interrupt the process before it fu**s you over.
 

Sopwiths North

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The neck injection thing makes me a bit nervous. I guess for the "magic" (read "easy fix") aspect of it. It feels like the risk of losing part of you is there if you get it, even if that's the part of you that's wounded. I dunno. It's not for me to say, that's for sure, because I'm not the one living what you experience every day Val, but it does make me nervous. I'm just always leery of stuff that you can't take back I guess. Like, an injection that changes you forever, to me seems scary.

I don't think staying in therapy stops you from moving on though. I think you always keep moving. Just sometimes doesn't feel like it is all, because stuff is hard, and it's painful to be in for so freaking long, and we want it to end so we just can get our lives going again. I guess you just have to have hope mostly. That it will. Just never let go of hope. If you keep hope, then you are essentially your own therapist, and that's the most valuable thing of all. Keeps you going somehow.

Maybe do a test run of sorts with an acupuncturist. They could needle that point for you, and see what it does. And just overall, energetically, they might be able to help you, with other points to needle as well. It's just a thought. Before you go for the "big one", if you do.
 

Hojuman

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Everyday here should be RUok day.

For all our differences and opinions, like it or not, we are here for one of life's great loves. The NMFC.

Hope all you buggers, wherever you are, l raise me Friday 4 p.m. gin & tonic to 'youse.

Struggling, talk. We are here. We will listen.
 

Val Keating

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The neck injection thing makes me a bit nervous. I guess for the "magic" (read "easy fix") aspect of it. It feels like the risk of losing part of you is there if you get it, even if that's the part of you that's wounded. I dunno. It's not for me to say, that's for sure, because I'm not the one living what you experience every day Val, but it does make me nervous. I'm just always leery of stuff that you can't take back I guess. Like, an injection that changes you forever, to me seems scary.

I don't think staying in therapy stops you from moving on though. I think you always keep moving. Just sometimes doesn't feel like it is all, because stuff is hard, and it's painful to be in for so freaking long, and we want it to end so we just can get our lives going again. I guess you just have to have hope mostly. That it will. Just never let go of hope. If you keep hope, then you are essentially your own therapist, and that's the most valuable thing of all. Keeps you going somehow.

Maybe do a test run of sorts with an acupuncturist. They could needle that point for you, and see what it does. And just overall, energetically, they might be able to help you, with other points to needle as well. It's just a thought. Before you go for the "big one", if you do.
Sorry I missed this post.

I brought it up with the psychologist that im doing the emdr with. She’d never heard of it and will have a look (more out of curiosity)

She advised me to bring it up with psychiatrist next time I see her, which is in a about a month.

From what I understand the injection doesn’t change you, it just resets the part of your brain that controls the fight or flight mode (which is something we really don’t need anymore). There’s some pretty complex science behind it that I don’t really understand. Still, I’d gladly do it.
 

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Sopwiths North

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Sorry I missed this post.

I brought it up with the psychologist that im doing the emdr with. She’d never heard of it and will have a look (more out of curiosity)

She advised me to bring it up with psychiatrist next time I see her, which is in a about a month.

From what I understand the injection doesn’t change you, it just resets the part of your brain that controls the fight or flight mode (which is something we really don’t need anymore). There’s some pretty complex science behind it that I don’t really understand. Still, I’d gladly do it.
I hear you Val, in that this stuff you've gone through as a little kid still affects your life. Which is to be expected, given the magnitude and traumatic nature of it. I do think we still need our fight/flight mechanism though - to a certain degree. Not in the sense that we need it to be reactive like in a bar fight or something, but it's part of our survival mechanism. (I know I need my flight mechanism for spiders, for instance!) I guess my trepidation about it was more along the lines of "Can you fix me without turning me into a robot?" sort of thing. Like, don't erase something that maybe I'll wish later wasn't gone, but now can never tap back into. I always feel it's better to heal something, whenever possible, rather than just block it out or erase it altogether, but then I also know that our lives are ticking away every day, and maybe we just don't have enough days in our life to wait for that healing to happen. Or they're too painful to live through while we try and work on it. Or you just want to live your life, and get on with it. All those things.

I think it's good that you're asking lots of people in the profession about it. Try and gather as much info as you can. If you go in, go with as much knowledge as possible. In a perfect world I'd try to talk with families and loved ones of people who've had it done - see what their take is on the before/after version of that person, and also of course, what that person themselves has to say about having it done to them. But I know all that may not be possible.
 

ferball

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I hear you Val, in that this stuff you've gone through as a little kid still affects your life. Which is to be expected, given the magnitude and traumatic nature of it. I do think we still need our fight/flight mechanism though - to a certain degree. Not in the sense that we need it to be reactive like in a bar fight or something, but it's part of our survival mechanism. (I know I need my flight mechanism for spiders, for instance!) I guess my trepidation about it was more along the lines of "Can you fix me without turning me into a robot?" sort of thing. Like, don't erase something that maybe I'll wish later wasn't gone, but now can never tap back into. I always feel it's better to heal something, whenever possible, rather than just block it out or erase it altogether, but then I also know that our lives are ticking away every day, and maybe we just don't have enough days in our life to wait for that healing to happen. Or they're too painful to live through while we try and work on it. Or you just want to live your life, and get on with it. All those things.

I think it's good that you're asking lots of people in the profession about it. Try and gather as much info as you can. If you go in, go with as much knowledge as possible. In a perfect world I'd try to talk with families and loved ones of people who've had it done - see what their take is on the before/after version of that person, and also of course, what that person themselves has to say about having it done to them. But I know all that may not be possible.
I totally get where you are coming from but I can see how this could really work well if done right.
Neurons become more favoured the more you use them. Myelinisation changes your brain all the time.

IIRC it forms and favours habitual behaviours by thickening nerves and changing their electrical properties. Decreasing resistance and making electrical activity in the brain more likely to include those pathways that are frequently used.
Causing a feedback loop that can make unhelpful (for lack of a better term) behaviours more frequent and easier to revert to.
Hojuman might know a bit more about this than me.
The longer a series of neurocircuits is used the more likely they are to be used next time.
If you can interfere with that processing any way it can help end behaviour that you don't want.
I think of that sort of thing as jury rigging your own brain.
 

Hojuman

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I totally get where you are coming from but I can see how this could really work well if done right.
Neurons become more favoured the more you use them. Myelinisation changes your brain all the time.

IIRC it forms and favours habitual behaviours by thickening nerves and changing their electrical properties. Decreasing resistance and making electrical activity in the brain more likely to include those pathways that are frequently used.
Causing a feedback loop that can make unhelpful (for lack of a better term) behaviours more frequent and easier to revert to.
Hojuman might know a bit more about this than me.
The longer a series of neurocircuits is used the more likely they are to be used next time.
If you can interfere with that processing any way it can help end behaviour that you don't want.
I think of that sort of thing as jury rigging your own brain.



Not my area of expertise Furry. But thanks for the acknowledgement 😊
 

Marstermind

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Merry Christmas everyone! For most people it's a fun time with friend, family, a few drinks and fabulous food. Also a time to reflect upon our achievements and experiences over the past year or even longer.

But it's not like that for everyone. There are many reason one might feel this way. So I implore anyone who might be anxious about the holiday season to have a chat to someone. Anyone. A professional, a mate, your partner, your parents, or even someone more anonymous. It doesn't matter. You aren't alone. Speak up.
 

Val Keating

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Sorry to go to dark for a minute, but I read that most people struggling with suicidal thoughts without acting on them, don’t actually plan out their suicide in advance, like setting a date or whatever. It’s often that those people suicide within about an hour after an incident or a particularly shit day.

To be honest that scares the shit out of me.

Remember in your darkest moments, no matter how bad, you need to persevere, ride it out. Don’t pass your battle on to other people by taking the easy way out.

Edit- Honestly don’t know how they learned that. My guess is that they’ve interviewed enough survivors by now to see the pattern.
 
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