Autopsy Derby 49: Too much weights, not enough speed work. - Rd 4, 2019

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BlueE

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Yeah, that's what makes him so frustrating when he gets those opportunities inside 50 and kicks it like a flour bag. It's not like he's generally a **** kick.
But he's about to turn 26, "potential" is not a word you can keep using. If he's got it, he needs to show it now.
He wasn't the only one kicking for goal and missing when it should have been a near certainty.

You practice goal kicking under fatigue mentally applying full team pressure, to make the shot. Yep, there's a drill for that!
 

Bicco

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Kennedy kicked a casual 3. He did nothing else all game. But 3 goals. That’s what a forward should do.
McCarthy is lucky he got 2, because he did next to nothing at times.
Have a read of these two quotes FreoRicci Can you understand how ridiculous this sounds? The opposition apparently played their position perfectly (my words not yours) by 'kicking a casual 3' yet our boy is 'lucky he got 2'.
Both seemingly did nothing else all game.
Then this gem.
Darling had 37% of his disposals in the defensive half.
Kennedy had 31% of his disposals in the defensive half.
Vardy had 30% of his disposals in the defensive half.

Taberner had 45% of his disposals in the defensive half (mostly on the wing).
Hogan had 34% of his disposals in the defensive half.
McCarthy had 28% of his disposals in the defensive half.
Thank you. Highlighted my point. Our forwards are too far up the ground and required to zone defend, if that makes sense.
This stat in no way 'highlights your point' that our forwards are too far up the ground. It does show that both teams forwards spend pretty much equal time in defensive areas.
You have a pre conceived image of what you want to see, that is Freo failing due to poor coaching by Ross.
That DID NOT happen in this game (to any large extent at least). We played well. How can you not see that?
 

wayToGo_

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Did the eagles their foot of the throttle in the 2nd half?
I know a lot of West Coast fans would like to think they weren't trying or they had extra gears to go but c'mon... it was their home game, they had a 7 day break whereas we only had a 6 day break, if anything they were puffing harder in the final quarter (a few more minutes on the clock and we might have got there), we had a key player go down with injury early due to injury so playing a man down whereas they had their whole team available for the entire game, and that's the strongest team they've fielded so far this season and a stronger team than the one that played in the grand final last year.

As much as our skills were poor at times they had +14 turnovers. I know some people here (and the commentators) were complaining we were giving them too much space to move the ball at times but our team defensive structure was pretty good for the whole game, once we upped the intensity an extra notch they really struggled. We won the last three quarters and if not for some good acting by Kennedy and Darling they probably would have only scored 3 goals after quarter time. If we had had a bit more polish and run on the outside (thought Hill was good but his gut run wasn't as dominant as normal I assume because of the cork last week) I think we would have moved the ball a bit easier and scored more freely. Wilson needs to sort out whatever is going on at home with his sleep imo (just a gut feel) - we need his run and precise kicking back.

Another thing some may point to as an excuse is the free kick count. We ended up +5. But we deserved it, we were harder at the contest, as proven by having more contested possessions and tackles. We weren't being gifted free kicks, West Coast just weren't getting gifted the extra 15 they normally con out of the umpires playing us - hence why their supporters were so upset. There were some iffy calls both ways but I didn't think it was over umpired and I don't think it impacted the result either way in the end - which is exactly what you want from umpires.

Apart from being way too scrappy I think the team should take a lot of confidence out of that performance heading to GWS next week.
 

fnerd

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Ha ha, that guy is such an idiot.

In fairness, I rated Sheppard's game to a point, but well behind Hurn and Mundy, and possibly a few others. He milks a lot of cheep stats off the HB that aren't that special. And Redden, LOL. He was OK, but yeah, I think I'd struggle to put him in the top 10 on ground quite frankly.
As with most things concerning glen jakovich , the most important thing to remember is glen jakovich.

He couldn’t even get the eagles best players right.

Agree regarding Sheppard, especially as a lockdown defender, can really curb the leagues most dangerous small to medium fwds. Very underated.
That said he wouldve just made top 5 for eagles let alone the ground.

As for redden I was amazed he had as much of the ball . He was nigh on invisible and like your say lucky to be top 10
 

Hazelsnuts

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Agreed on the skills being poor, but it isn’t as simplistic as that.
For major periods of the game we are playing reactive football, West Coast look better with the ball because of the chip and draw possession style of gameplan.
When our experience comes so to will our composure with the ball which then enables better skill execution, we really are a work in progress.
What I really like is that we are taking the game on, sure errors will be made but when we get more overlap and composure we will be quite lethal - exactly what happened in the first game against North.
 
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Another thing some may point to as an excuse is the free kick count. We ended up +5. But we deserved it, we were harder at the contest, as proven by having more contested possessions and tackles. We weren't being gifted free kicks, West Coast just weren't getting gifted the extra 15 they normally con out of the umpires playing us - hence why their supporters were so upset. There were some iffy calls both ways but I didn't think it was over umpired and I don't think it impacted the result either way in the end - which is exactly what you want from umpires.
Did anyone else notice how quiet the Eagles crowd got in the last two quarters? The fact is the were shitting themselves because they knew we had by far the better of it. As for the free kick count, it highlights how much our blue and gold rivals miss Margetts. Razor Ray may like the limelight but he doesn't let players take the piss.

Agreed on the skills being poor, but it isn’t as simplistic as that.
For major periods of the game we are playing reactive football, West Coast look better with the ball because of the chip and draw possession style of gameplan.
When our experience comes so to will our composure with the ball which then enables better skill execution, we really are a work in progress.
What I really like is that we are taking the game on, sure errors will be made but when we get more overlap and composure we will be quite lethal - exactly what happened in the first game against North.
For some composure comes with experience - Tucker, Brayshaw, Cerra, Hughes, Switta, Shultz, Duman and Pearce are still on a pretty steep learning curve. None of Tabs, Hogan or Cam Mac have played a 100 games so all of these guys can be expected show some improvement with ball in hand. And before everyone jumps on the Colyer/Conca quinella I know that some blokes struggle with composure and skills their whole career. My point is that as a group we should improve.
 
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Did tucker have a run with role on seagull Shoey? If so, a bit low for only the 15 touches for him, but the seagull only had 24 and I didn’t see him do anything game breaking. A good effort from tucker


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fnerd

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Yeah lol at all these claims ‘we had good run with the umps’ and WC fans whinging they got shafted.

Just goes to show how MUCH we’ve (freo fans and wc)been conditioned to just expect us to get reamed and wc fans to expect an arm chair ride.
WC unbelievably consistently good run with the umps has actually shifted the footballing public’s psyche

There was no real favouring ,tho when things got close they got some crucial calls and non calls their way .
Admittedly we got some soft ones too.
 

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DaveLister

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we had 86 intercepts last night and kept them to 10 goals. Anyone that thinks the Eagles win that game because they had a whole bunch of 'effective' sideways and backwards kicks is silly goose. We absolutely constricted their gameplan, in fact that's possibly the best we have defended against that Hawks chip kick game.

People melting about us not hitting as many targets are the same nuffies that cry when we try a switch, our game plan is fast and we don't control by defensive half kick mark like they do. So of course we have less kicks but they were stuck, absolutely rooted in their back half, looking only at the heat map you'd say we won that game. They couldn't play their chosen gameplan effectively at home against a team with 7 less players 150 gamers. They were spanked in groundball, both coaches noted that, that's absolutely huge for a team missing Fyfe.

We hit the post 3 times, miss some really easy shots a few don't even score, We were 1-9 at one stage. They shoot straight at the start.
Yes they're the more skilled team and so this isn't just luck but there is some luck involved here. Both teams regressed to the mean but we couldn't quite overcome the premiers, with bonus Gaff and sheppard.

As hard as it is watching us miss was, that game was a game where we executed our plan (apart for the shooting) exceptionally well.
 

FreoRicci

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Have a read of these two quotes FreoRicci Can you understand how ridiculous this sounds? The opposition apparently played their position perfectly (my words not yours) by 'kicking a casual 3' yet our boy is 'lucky he got 2'.
Both seemingly did nothing else all game.
Then this gem.




This stat in no way 'highlights your point' that our forwards are too far up the ground. It does show that both teams forwards spend pretty much equal time in defensive areas.
You have a pre conceived image of what you want to see, that is Freo failing due to poor coaching by Ross.
That DID NOT happen in this game (to any large extent at least). We played well. How can you not see that?
If you’re happy with our forwards working hard when our star forward only gets 1 goal, whereas Kennedy gets 3 and Darling 3 even when they were very quiet, then by all means.
I’m just highlighting forwards within our structure having to be more defensive then usual. It’s not exactly a secret of Ross’.

We’ve played three games with this forward line. Averaging 61.66. That’s no secret. Hogan has kicked 1 goal in three games. Does that not worry you? Even with the forward line we have, Ross still can’t have a gameplan that can kick a high score. He’s coaching Hogan out of his potential. Forcing him to do more defensively, and pushing numbers high up the ground. Plus this bomb it at all cost. Look at West coast’s ball movement. Sure they were pressured, but how often was Kennedy marking on the chest without a defender around him? It’s a massive difference. But hey effort before skills right..
 

MadMundy

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Overall, a game we probably should have won, but unfortunately silly mistakes and missinh our opportunities cost us in the end. The boys can hold their heads up high after that performance. Battled until the end but West Coast were too good. Taberner while missing a lot still played well for us, loved Hogan snagging his first goal and Dardy continuing his good form. Onto next week. Mundy was amazing.
 

Cesoir

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we had 86 intercepts last night and kept them to 10 goals. Anyone that thinks the Eagles win that game because they had a whole bunch of 'effective' sideways and backwards kicks is silly goose. We absolutely constricted their gameplan, in fact that's possibly the best we have defended against that Hawks chip kick game.

People melting about us not hitting as many targets are the same nuffies that cry when we try a switch, our game plan is fast and we don't control by defensive half kick mark like they do. So of course we have less kicks but they were stuck, absolutely rooted in their back half, looking only at the heat map you'd say we won that game. They couldn't play their chosen gameplan effectively at home against a team with 7 less players 150 gamers. They were spanked in groundball, both coaches noted that, that's absolutely huge for a team missing Fyfe.

We hit the post 3 times, miss some really easy shots a few don't even score, We were 1-9 at one stage. They shoot straight at the start.
Yes they're the more skilled team and so this isn't just luck but there is some luck involved here. Both teams regressed to the mean but we couldn't quite overcome the premiers, with bonus Gaff and sheppard.

As hard as it is watching us miss was, that game was a game where we executed our plan (apart for the shooting) exceptionally well.
This 100%. It was a game which will do nothing to convince those who think we are still playing defensive "Ross Lyon" football, but for anyone who is looking for some green shoots I think they were there.

Apart from the first quarter where our defence leaked like a pensioner's bladder, I thought we played tough, uncompromising football for the rest of the game and they didn't like it one little bit. The fact they were happy to over possess it in the back line rather than taking on our zone should give the boys some real confidence moving forward. If we can add some polish to that manic pressure we win that game easily - I am honestly looking forward to the next derby for the first time in quite a while.

Remember, that was last year's premiers virtually at full strength versus us without our best player, and missing Hamling for most of the game.

My advice - stay away from any thread with Lyon in the title and enjoy the fact that the Eagles fans will be scrambling for excuses as to why we got so close, rather than gloating about how they smashed us.
 

GoFreo4eva

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Did the eagles their foot of the throttle in the 2nd half?
Didn’t look like that to me... They looked as spent as the Freo boys at the end so if that is any measure they were trying hard throughout. While I never felt we were going to win the game I was pleased with the boys persistence and pressure. Just a kick or two or individual bit or brilliance away from stealing it.

The turnovers by Mundy and Conca were incredibly costly. A few posters from Taberner and Hill also stuffed our monemtum up as well...
 

Dockernut

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I’d be incredibly disappointed with that effort if I were a Weags fan. Just sneaking a win against a likely bottom four team missing their best player at home is pathetic by them.
 

Danny82

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we had 86 intercepts last night and kept them to 10 goals. Anyone that thinks the Eagles win that game because they had a whole bunch of 'effective' sideways and backwards kicks is silly goose. We absolutely constricted their gameplan, in fact that's possibly the best we have defended against that Hawks chip kick game.

People melting about us not hitting as many targets are the same nuffies that cry when we try a switch, our game plan is fast and we don't control by defensive half kick mark like they do. So of course we have less kicks but they were stuck, absolutely rooted in their back half, looking only at the heat map you'd say we won that game. They couldn't play their chosen gameplan effectively at home against a team with 7 less players 150 gamers. They were spanked in groundball, both coaches noted that, that's absolutely huge for a team missing Fyfe.

We hit the post 3 times, miss some really easy shots a few don't even score, We were 1-9 at one stage. They shoot straight at the start.
Yes they're the more skilled team and so this isn't just luck but there is some luck involved here. Both teams regressed to the mean but we couldn't quite overcome the premiers, with bonus Gaff and sheppard.

As hard as it is watching us miss was, that game was a game where we executed our plan (apart for the shooting) exceptionally well.
This is exactly what I thought. I don’t get why people are blaming Ross and the game plan. The game plan was what kept this game close and the finishing is what ultimately lost the game.
 

Cesoir

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If you’re happy with our forwards working hard when our star forward only gets 1 goal, whereas Kennedy gets 3 and Darling 3 even when they were very quiet, then by all means.
I’m just highlighting forwards within our structure having to be more defensive then usual. It’s not exactly a secret of Ross’.

We’ve played three games with this forward line. Averaging 61.66. That’s no secret. Hogan has kicked 1 goal in three games. Does that not worry you? Even with the forward line we have, Ross still can’t have a gameplan that can kick a high score. He’s coaching Hogan out of his potential. Forcing him to do more defensively, and pushing numbers high up the ground. Plus this bomb it at all cost. Look at West coast’s ball movement. Sure they were pressured, but how often was Kennedy marking on the chest without a defender around him? It’s a massive difference. But hey effort before skills right..
Out of the country for the first game? It is very convenient to miss a quarter of our games when quoting statistics, but let's be real. Over the first four games we have averaged 81.5 points for and 63.75 against. The Eagles have averaged 82.25 for and 71.5 against. Adelaide have averaged 69 points for - there is no way that Don Pyke can have an attacking game plan. Oh, wait...

We are learning a new style of play which is more attacking, and other than the Suns game which was terrible it has mainly been our own mistakes under pressure which have cost us. This will improve as the guys become more familiar with the plan and each week gives us opportunities to "fine tune" things. If we can keep the team relatively stable I am confident we will be a much better side this year than last, and that is my pass mark based on where we are.
 
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I know a lot of West Coast fans would like to think they weren't trying or they had extra gears to go but c'mon... it was their home game, they had a 7 day break whereas we only had a 6 day break, if anything they were puffing harder in the final quarter (a few more minutes on the clock and we might have got there), we had a key player go down with injury early due to injury so playing a man down whereas they had their whole team available for the entire game, and that's the strongest team they've fielded so far this season and a stronger team than the one that played in the grand final last year.

As much as our skills were poor at times they had +14 turnovers. I know some people here (and the commentators) were complaining we were giving them too much space to move the ball at times but our team defensive structure was pretty good for the whole game, once we upped the intensity an extra notch they really struggled. We won the last three quarters and if not for some good acting by Kennedy and Darling they probably would have only scored 3 goals after quarter time. If we had had a bit more polish and run on the outside (thought Hill was good but his gut run wasn't as dominant as normal I assume because of the cork last week) I think we would have moved the ball a bit easier and scored more freely. Wilson needs to sort out whatever is going on at home with his sleep imo (just a gut feel) - we need his run and precise kicking back.

Another thing some may point to as an excuse is the free kick count. We ended up +5. But we deserved it, we were harder at the contest, as proven by having more contested possessions and tackles. We weren't being gifted free kicks, West Coast just weren't getting gifted the extra 15 they normally con out of the umpires playing us - hence why their supporters were so upset. There were some iffy calls both ways but I didn't think it was over umpired and I don't think it impacted the result either way in the end - which is exactly what you want from umpires.

Apart from being way too scrappy I think the team should take a lot of confidence out of that performance heading to GWS next week.
Great post.
 

Rion

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At least the outlines of a workable game-plan are there. And I reckon a more direct style of play is definitely more watchable than the boring chippy crap WC/Collingwood play. Slight issues with whether we can actually beat the Collingwoods/West Coasts' playing the brand of footy that we are (Richmond are a much better team and couldn't do it last year) but considering our skill level I hardly think a possession style is ideal for us.

Agree that our skill level should hopefully improve as the players get more comfortable with the plan/each other. Don't agree that'll give us enough improvement though. Playing such a direct style if our skills aren't on we're going to be in enormous trouble, constantly exerting enormous effort for little end-gain. The only time we've shown passable skills this year was against a team that provided basically no pressure. The last three games have been diabolical.

Maybe we need a specialized skills coach?
 

Cesoir

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At least the outlines of a workable game-plan are there. And I reckon a more direct style of play is definitely more watchable than the boring chippy crap WC/Collingwood play. Slight issues with whether we can actually beat the Collingwoods/West Coasts' playing the brand of footy that we are (Richmond are a much better team and couldn't do it last year) but considering our skill level I hardly think a possession style is ideal for us.

Agree that our skill level should hopefully improve as the players get more comfortable with the plan/each other. Don't agree that'll give us enough improvement though. Playing such a direct style if our skills aren't on we're going to be in enormous trouble, constantly exerting enormous effort for little end-gain. The only time we've shown passable skills this year was against a team that provided basically no pressure. The last three games have been diabolical.

Maybe we need a specialized skills coach?
The thing that gives me hope Rion is that even our really skilful players are making basic skill errors. Dave Mundy butchered the ball on a number of occasions when under little pressure. Sonny missed a very gettable shot at goal which basically set the tone for the rest of the match. These are not ball-butchers, they are highly skilled players who are over thinking things rather than just playing on instinct. Once everyone settles down and understands what is required I think you will see a lot less of these clangers and much more creative ball use from our good ball users. When Stephen Hill comes back in we will have some really good users pumping the ball into the forwards - Mundy, Hill, Hill, Walters, Cerra, Wilson, Ryan, Duman, Tucker. They have the skills already, they just need to settle down and take some time with their disposal. Norths allowed us to do that and we saw the results.
 

tants

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Apart from the first quarter where our defence leaked like a pensioner's bladder
This is a function of all our misses. We pushed hard forward and didn't have extras behind the ball. We dominated play and got decent shots on goal. Then kicked a point, which gave them possession. Often this would go down the other end for a shot (and goal). If we kick 2 of those 5 behinds then the cheapies out the back are acceptable collateral damage. The misses were the issue.
 
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Agree with Cesoir , stay away from the Ross thread, unless you enjoying throwing your head against a brick wall...

I'm reasonably happy from what I've seen in the first month. I think the Gold Coast game is the only one we played 'poorly' by turning up and expecting to win, there was no effort or intensity and it will cost us come the pointy end of the season.

I like how we are trying to play, the run'n'gun style works for our team with our tall forwards and speed on the outside. Skills the last two weeks have been poor but St Kilda brought finals like pressure and it was very slippery last night.

You can see what we try to do works so well when the skills are at the level we want them to be. We have seen that in snippets the last 3 weeks and against North, who didnt turn up, it was in effect the whole game.

The defensive structure is also looking magnificent imo. Pearce and Ryan are leading the league in intercepts as far as I'm aware and we are keeping opposition teams to very small totals. If Wilson wakes up and decides he still wants an AFL career we are looking at one of the best back 6 in the competition for the next 3-4 years
 
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Conca made two monumental kicking **** ups but apart from that his game was actually good I thought, used his body consistently well. I am surprised people didn't notice the good stuff.

On the opposition I disagree with those saying Mundy was BOG, Hurn was clearly the best player out there. Deserved winner.

I had zero respect for Shuey before so am not surprised at all to see him flop forward with every contest trying to milk a free. But to see actual stars like JK do it too, far out, it's embarrassing. That free he got in the last when the ball went miles over his head and he leapt forward like superman was appalling. But fair to the umps, most of the night they didn't fall for this crap and we got a good run. If that game had different umpires paying those fraudulent frees we'd be sitting here having lost by 50 points.
 
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