'Destination clubs' - Fallout the AFL didn't see coming?

[JayJ20]

I'm telling James Stewart you said that.. and Craig Bird. You're in trouble now.

By quality I mean a high profile player at the time of trading.

Yep. Even Garlett chose a horrid 2014 Melbourne side over the finalist in Essendon.

We were after Garlett? Not too surprising I guess

 

[SizeMatters]

Port Adelaide has done quite well the last few years
Pretty much kept our core and
Brought in Ryder, Dixon and now Rockliff last 3 years.

And we are a small club by AFL Collingwood / Richmond / Adelaide / West Coast standards.

Answer to your question for me: Make the football club a destination.

How do you make the Lions and Suns a 'destination club' when you get young kids leaving for success because the clubs have no success. It's a repeating cycle that I fear we will be stuck in for years to come. Both clubs have been cellar dwellers for 7+ years now and still look years off. Don't tell me your answer is to severely overpay to keep the talent either as I have been told a few times.

 

[Powerstufff]

.... Aside from keeping the AFLPA happy, the intention and/or expectation was that combined with the salary cap, Free Agency would help the lower clubs improve faster.

The theory was that because they had a rubbish list, they'd have more salary cap space available to pinch these free agents from the top clubs that were bursting with talent ....

Free agency was brought in as part of a few measures to forestall US style 'restraint of trade' legal battles. In that sense I agree it was to keep the AFLPA happy but even if they had not sought it individual players eventually would have.
I don't believe it was ever designed that free agents would go to less successful clubs or that it was expected that would happen. Cap spend between all the teams doesn't vary hugely,
Having said that I really do agree with your title, the concept of destination clubs that have a pull beyond the dollars offered is a real 'thing' now. Whack in an ex-player as an assistant coach, someone really popular and maybe who has played at a few clubs. 3 days a week they're putting out the cones at training but much of the rest of the time they're cultivating relationships and come season's end whacko, a few players around the league decide that's where they'd like to play.

 

[Hellgood]

How do you make the Lions and Suns a 'destination club' when you get young kids leaving for success because the clubs have no success. It's a repeating cycle that I fear we will be stuck in for years to come. Both clubs have been cellar dwellers for 7+ years now and still look years off. Don't tell me your answer is to severely overpay to keep the talent either as I have been told a few times.

I don't quite buy that, you guys have managed to attract some pretty good players through both trade and free-agency in recent years. Every players motivation is different some want opportunity, some want the cash, some want leadership, some want longevity, some want a side apparently in immediate contention, some want to play with mates/brothers/coaching staff they like, some want off-field opportunities and some want to go home.

I don't think it's all doom and gloom for either Queensland club at all. The worm will turn if you are persistent enough.

 

[Farm Boy]

Port Adelaide has done quite well the last few years
Pretty much kept our core and
Brought in Ryder, Dixon and now Rockliff last 3 years.

And we are a small club by AFL Collingwood / Richmond / Adelaide / West Coast standards.

Answer to your question for me: Make the football club a destination.

Good post. Every football club is going to be different, and every club has the capacity to make theirs a destination club. Port have changed their culture under Hinkley - and have attracted players as a result.

 

[marty36]

How do you make the Lions and Suns a 'destination club' when you get young kids leaving for success because the clubs have no success. It's a repeating cycle that I fear we will be stuck in for years to come. Both clubs have been cellar dwellers for 7+ years now and still look years off. Don't tell me your answer is to severely overpay to keep the talent either as I have been told a few times.

Why not say overpay

The afl runs a handicapped competition with the rules they have in place

Too even up the comp they can allow for a larger salary cap if clubs are struggling to retain and gain players

It just proves the myth of destination clubs

$$$ are the motivating factor a two year old can work that out


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[Boomerfan99]

$2.5m is irresponsible spending though and would f*** the cap in another way. Paying that much to Dusty won't turn a basketcase club around.

High-profile recruits from other clubs don't turn poor clubs around, drafting, development, and culture do, and you can't build that by paying 1/4 of your cap to one guy, if anything Ablett to the Suns is proof of that.

How come the ignore function does not work on this guy?

 

[Marc_Remillard]

The problem has always been the fixture, everything else is just background noise.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Absolute rubbish. Geelong play Hawthorn at the MCG and actually request it for Easter Monday. Somehow they do not worry about integrity there.

and to you for the billionth time. The AFL make Geelong play home games in Melbourne so therefore, Geelong request games that are going to give them maximum exposure and profit.

North Melbourne, Hawthorn, Bulldogs, Melbourne and whoever else sell games off interstate to make money, Geelong gets forced to play home games in Melbourne to make up the AFL's contracted minimum games for the season at the MCG and Etihad.

 

[00Stinger]

I only find it funny when an OP finishes off with discuss.....

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[Herne Hill Hammer]

The problem has always been the fixture, everything else is just background noise.

100% correct.

They need one of four things to make it even.

1. A 17/5 competition.
2. 34 h&a games per season.
3. 17 h&a games per season.
4. Less teams and an even h&a fixture.

1 is about the only one that might get a look in.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

100% correct.

They need one of four things to make it even.

1. A 17/5 competition.
2. 34 h&a games per season.
3. 17 h&a games per season.
4. Less teams and an even h&a fixture.

1 is about the only one that might get a look in.

Disagree.

The only way for it to be even, is to play each other twice - once at your home ground and once at your opponents home ground.
And....
To ensure that no team ever plays an 'away' final at their home ground.
And...
Play all games at the same time on the same day.
And....
Draw it out of a hat.


Until that happens, it will never be 'fair' and can never be called 'even'.

But it will never happen, and should never happen in my opinion (in terms of what I value about the Footy).


There are certain scenarios though when the AFL makes an error that is just too blatantly unfair toward one club or a few clubs. And they should rectify these.


However the complaining and outrage generally about the uneveness is a bit silly considering we all know it happens every single year, and we also all know why.


Having said that, the celebrations from the winners should surely also be subdued somewhat for the same reasons, don't you think?

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Abolish the salary cap and where do you think destination clubs would be


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Probably not teams that currently offer more and still can't get the deal done.

There is more to it than just $$

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[Herne Hill Hammer]

Disagree.

The only way for it to be even, is to play each other twice - once at your home ground and once at your opponents home ground.
And....
To ensure that no team ever plays an 'away' final at their home ground.
And...
Play all games at the same time on the same day.
And....
Draw it out of a hat.


Until that happens, it will never be 'fair' and can never be called 'even'.

But it will never happen, and should never happen in my opinion (in terms of what I value about the Footy).


There are certain scenarios though when the AFL makes an error that is just too blatantly unfair toward one club or a few clubs. And they should rectify these.


However the complaining and outrage generally about the uneveness is a bit silly considering we all know it happens every single year, and we also all know why.


Having said that, the celebrations from the winners should surely also be subdued somewhat for the same reasons, don't you think?

That's what number 2 is, a 34 round h&a season which is obviously ridiculously too long and number 4, cull teams so that they can play each other twice a year, once at home and once away.

I'm not against a longer h&a season, but I would limit how many games each player could play. Currently the maximum you could play in a season if your club made the gf is 26, limit it to that for each player. It would throw the extra dynamic in of which games do stars get rested for and whether the rival club / fans feel slighted by it.

Just because we know it happens every year doesn't make it right nor that we shouldn't complain abou it.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Design a game plan to win on a ground you rarely play and even rarer play good clubs at.

Weve spent the last ten years playing melbourne there as cellar dwellers

Every other ground in australia bar the gabba is a heap skinnier.

Why didn't WCE/Freo demand that the new Perth Stadium have the same dimensions as the MCG? It was the perfect opportunity to do something about it!

 

[marty36]

Probably not teams that currently offer more and still can't get the deal done.

There is more to it than just $$

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Then if the salary cap is irrelevant get rid of it

Are you agreeing with me


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[kranky al]

Why didn't WCE/Freo demand that the new Perth Stadium have the same dimensions as the MCG? It was the perfect opportunity to do something about it!

Ok the state govt built the new oval for all sports - we got 10m more than subi - but rugby league, union and soccer want thin grounds.

Not unusually large ones like the g.


As ive said in other threads - changing the grannys mcg dimensions to match the home teams as vlosely as practicable costs a tin of paint.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

I have one eye open at all times, enough to see that 7 home games compared to Adelaide and Richmond who played 14 times at home in 2017 including two and three finals is a huge advantage! No wonder they played off! Man oh man do i love silly footy fans, it's a laugh a minute. Geelong played half the number of home games than any other team in the top 4 and i'm the one who is blind?

Whether it's a politician whose point has been refuted or a one eyed footy fan who has been definitively proven insane, they will immediately shift to the next talking point that in their mad mind backs up their side, not even skipping a beat. Forget the facts, the facts don't enter into it. They keep fighting to defend their position even after it is factually shown to be untrue. What's really weird is that process of sticking to your guns even after you've been proven definitively wrong is apparently the entire reason humans invented arguing. 14 home home games to 7...where exactly is this tremendous home ground advantage? How wrong is that? What am i not seeing here?

The Internet has introduced a golden age of ill-informed arguments. On Big Footy everyone is a pundit and the very wiring of our brains ensures that all these lively debates only make us dumber and more narrow-minded. Logic and reason mean little to footy fans, it does not compute. Reasoning doesn't have this function of helping us to get better beliefss and make better decisions, it's purely a social phenomenon. It evolved to help us convince others and to be careful when others try to convince us, truth and accuracy were beside the point.
"We won and you lost" is the only argument a footy fan can comprehend, everything else is irrelevant to the conversation. It's all okay really, you're from a long line of people who finally got to the winner's circle again and by ignoring facts in favor of advancing your side... the argument falls flat very quickly. I understand that.
Playing 14 home games a year is one hell of an attraction for a player wishing to move clubs. Now that brings probability into play. Our brains are great for doing a lot of things. Calculating probability is not one of them.
In real life Our brains are not meant to instinctively understand any equation more complex than this:

Huge Croc on river bed = Run Away

In football terms that means : 14 games at home = Good bloody chance of playing finals! Player managers calculate that probability.

You obviously cannot tell the difference between home games and home games with a huge home ground advantage. Yes we play more games at the MCG than Geelong does at KP. None of them have the same home ground advantage as Geelong enjoys. If you want facts, just look at your record at home. Which Victorian club gets anywhere near the same win % at their home ground? None. That's because we play teams who also either play the MCG as their home ground or they play there more than once a year (or once every 2 years) as what happens when teams play at KP. Dude, starting off with 7 victories in the bag means you only have to win another 6 to make the finals. But how can you talk facts with a one eyed supporter....

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Ok the state govt built the new oval for all sports - we got 10m more than subi - but rugby league, union and soccer want thin grounds.

Not unusually large ones like the g.


As ive said in other threads - changing the grannys mcg dimensions to match the home teams as vlosely as practicable costs a tin of paint.

I would have thought it's easier to make a new stadium's dimensions bigger and then put the coat of paint on your own new stadium for the occasional other sport.

 

[kranky al]

I would have thought it's easier to make a new stadium's dimensions bigger and then put the coat of paint on your own new stadium for the occasional other sport.

No perhaps i didnt explain well.

Rugby union, league and soccer dont like venues where the spectors are further away from the sidelines.

Look at a rectangular sport on the g and its lost in the middle.




Thats is why most grounds are around 120-130m - we have the rugby league soo there and regular major rugby union internationals.

If we ever get a world cup it is skinny grounds they want as well.

The mcg at 146m wide is very very unusual.


And hey - if you come higher on the ladder play a game that suits that size ground - more power to you.

But if we come higher - and play you in a granny - i think seeing as we are already diadvantaged by travel - a tin of paint is just common sense isnt it

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Lol this is the first time in so long that a quality player nominated us

And only after it became apparent that Geelong would probably struggle to get the deal done.

 

[PowerForGood]

How do you make the Lions and Suns a 'destination club' when you get young kids leaving for success because the clubs have no success. It's a repeating cycle that I fear we will be stuck in for years to come. Both clubs have been cellar dwellers for 7+ years now and still look years off. Don't tell me your answer is to severely overpay to keep the talent either as I have been told a few times.

Not saying it is easy, Lions Suns and Giants have the hardest task no doubt.
I think it comes from being as perfect as possible in all aspects of the club that you can control. Eg Even when players leave, you do it as professionally as possible, knowing that the players have been supported and given every chance to succeed, thus making sure that if they do leave that you get a glowing reference about the club.

I've noticed how different Port have been about departing players this year (Trengove and Impey) as per some in previous years (Chaplin as one example).

 

[demondavey]

I never said they must play the GF at the MCG BUT there is the small thing about a contractual obligation with the MCC which forces the AFL to play there. So as long as that is present, teams have to be prepared to have the personnel and game plan that suits the MCG. I also can't see them getting out of that obligation in future contracts as the MCC have them over a barrel in a way.

The fact it was signed until 2037 really does reaffirm the VFL really is the AFL

 

[kranky al]

Not saying it is easy, Lions Suns and Giants have the hardest task no doubt.
I think it comes from being as perfect as possible in all aspects of the club that you can control. Eg Even when players leave, you do it as professionally as possible, knowing that the players have been supported and given every chance to succeed, thus making sure that if they do leave that you get a glowing reference about the club.

I've noticed how different Port have been about departing players this year (Trengove and Impey) as per some in previous years (Chaplin as one example).

I think suns need to fix their culture. Gc isnt a bad spot to live at all - id rather live there than pretty much anywhere else on offer as a wa’lian

Brisbane on the other hand - lived there hated it. Much rather live in melbs or adelaide or even geelong

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

That's what number 2 is, a 34 round h&a season which is obviously ridiculously too long and number 4, cull teams so that they can play each other twice a year, once at home and once away.

I'm not against a longer h&a season, but I would limit how many games each player could play. Currently the maximum you could play in a season if your club made the gf is 26, limit it to that for each player. It would throw the extra dynamic in of which games do stars get rested for and whether the rival club / fans feel slighted by it.

Just because we know it happens every year doesn't make it right nor that we shouldn't complain abou it.

Even if you play each other twice, how is it fair for Geelong to play their 'home' games at Hawthorn and Richmond's home ground?

Or Essendon to play Collingwood at their home ground?

And then once that is sorted, how is it fair for a team to get a 7 day break whilst other teams get 6 or 8? You have to play all games on the same day.


The point is, it's never going to be truly fair or even.

In reality, it's almost like the Stawell Gift. Certain teams start each season off 20m back, whilst others start from scratch.

The best team doesn't always win.