Developing Paddy

[12Chill]

Also I think we should all be thankful that ****head Dermie wasn't commentating.

 

[mysainters]

Also I think we should all be thankful that ****head Dermie wasn't commentating.

He gave his insight at half time for SEN and was a ripper.

Said no matter what happens, saints fans should see the first quarter as what the side will look like in a few years and to be patient.

 

[12Chill]

He gave his insight at half time for SEN and was a ripper.

Said no matter what happens, saints fans should see the first quarter as what the side will look like in a few years and to be patient.

Mind = blown.

Also good to see Wayne Carey on 7 say to be patient and all, big forwards know what it's all about I guess. Frustrating to still see everyone on places like this bag him out.

 

[AuntieBarrels]

I think we also have to remind ourselves that Paddy knew that he was playing in a big game (our only friday night game of the year) only an hour before the match began. This would be extremely taxing on an 18/19 yr old in his first season who hasn't played a proper VFL match, who is also trying to replace Roo (one of the best CHFs). Yes, he would have done all the warmups and etc with the whole team, but it would be very different knowing that you're probably not going to play the game.

Not beating around the bush here, but I was really impressed with his ability to get off his defenders and leading patterns. Yes he should have taken 3 or 4 more marks, this may sound like a soft excuse, but he was most likely too nervous. No.1 Pick, replacing Roo, knew that he was playing 1 hour before the game, wet conditions (not ideal for any key fwd)and all eyes on him all of a sudden. I would love to see him play next week, I think he's the type of kid that will get better with early opportunities. He's a big man, and the sort of guy that would want to prove the critics wrong straight away. There are plenty of stars and legends in the AFL that have had poor debuts, and Paddy's was no exception.

Give him your full support, he will get better in no time.

 

[Barrels]

Paddy's debut: 9 touches, 3 marks
Plugger's debut: 5 touches, 4 marks, 2 goals.

Differences being its a very different game, with zone defences and extra defenders and such, was also a wet night, and Paddy got no warning of his debut.

Paddy also gave off a goal to a bloke in a better spot and spent a lot of time working up the ground; something I doubt big Plugger ever did.

It's hardly the worst debut ever like some are making out.

He'll be fine.

 

[SK_MD_#7]

I can't believe hacks are even being negative about his debut. Anyone that expected much more in those circumstances must have rocks in their heads.

Hilarious to be honest.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Shows you how bad Lee and White are going?

He was clearly not ready

It was the wrong game to introduce him into really
Friday night, pro Collingwood crowd, poor conditions... Good tall defenders
Hiding to nothing really... He's not even AFL fit yet.

Tom Hickey... Would have been a liability fwd

Curren should have played for sure
Another small fwd who could push Middle and defend.
Woeful selection

I didnt think he was that bad Marty.
Sure he muffed quite a few marks. But i was happy that he seemed to be getting in the right spot to take those marks.
I was pretty happy with his leading patterns . Both of those are good signs for a young fwd.
Whether it was nerves or just being too anxious so his hands were 'too hard' when trying to mark im not sure. But like i mentioned earlier, if he held on to 2 or 3 more of those marks i think his debut wouldve looked a shitload better.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I can't believe hacks are even being negative about his debut. Anyone that expected much more in those circumstances must have rocks in their heads.

Hilarious to be honest.

Not complaining about his performance. Questioning whether it was best for the team on the night, or his long term development. Big difference.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

It's one game, he had to be thrown in at some point, why not on the biggest stage? I think this is a bit of a non-issue, the kid just needs games, games and more games. He will learn so much from each experience. It's gonna be a long journey like it is for all big key forwards. Like others have said, compare his debut to other key forwards and you will see pretty much none set the world on fire. Maybe make a thread like this after a season where one can see a clear pattern emerging of mismanagement, not after one game where he came in late as an emergency.

 

[gringo2011]

Why they didn't play Lee after they said they wouldn't do that to Paddy I don't know.

 

[Big Mart]

The fact is...

We won't know if he will become Elite/A/B Grade for 3 -5 years

We will see signs (VFL/AFL), but accurate assessment is after 50 AFL. Games

 

[Rough_Edges]

The fact is...

We won't know if he will become Elite/A/B Grade for 3 -5 years

We will see signs (VFL/AFL), but accurate assessment is after 50 AFL. Games

Is that a hard and fast rule is it?

 

[StFly]

I agree on Lee, it is never good to have a forward with no confidence in their shoulders, but he is also too good for state league instances, I however do not see him as anything but a serviceable third tall and with Membrey in, he arguably has more upside to persist with. I'm also on record as not rating Saunders in the AFL system, for me, he's probably same as Lee in that he is good enough and sometimes too good for the State level, but I don't see it transitioning to AFL, Spence is a tease, and I've always fallen for teases if they're forwards.

Paddy's development, I feel this was beneficial to him.

We are wishing for him to be a long term forward with a majority of that side, on that stage and as much as you can talk about it and expect what it'll be like, there is nothing like actually experiencing it, this then also allows the club and the other forwards he'll be sharing the 50 with, to have some operational in the heat of the moment understanding and discussion, the midfield will then also get to know him in the heat and we will then see if the team can learn to play to strengths. The only thing that will ultimately stifle Paddy is Paddy, and based on his game, I felt his running patterns were beyond expected that he actually got separation on his defender, he worked to create and use the space provided so if he understood why things then occurred, why he then got in the road of the other forwards or why the ball was then shallow, too deep, wobbly or how hard he had to work this will help his development as a forward in a future team of ours comprising several of those individuals. If he did not, then it will stifle him and I'll probably lump him into a "stupid" footballer who has the talent physically but is prone to just forget he's a footballer at times during games and watch everyone else be 2-5 steps in front of him.

No point bringing Lee in for mine, he would not be used, he would lose further confidence and his contract is probably one of cover as opposed to necessity, i would not bring in Spence because he is not a FF, he's a hit up type, I would not bring in Hickey because he is a ruck 1st and foremost, Paddy was the man, because he is a CHF/FF KPF.

 

[Defacto]

Nerves got the better of him, let's not beat around the bush he was extremely poor. Who cares tho? Rory Sloane had 7 hand balls in his debut, jibe Watson didn't get a kick in his and buddy was diabolical in his debut. He's blown the cobwebs out now and can knuckle down.

well said

 

[God Save Max King]

The fact is...

We won't know if he will become Elite/A/B Grade for 3 -5 years

We will see signs (VFL/AFL), but accurate assessment is after 50 AFL. Games

Funny that, call me traditional but I've always thought accurate assessment comes after the end of the career.

 

[Stewart66]

It's one game, he had to be thrown in at some point, why not on the biggest stage? I think this is a bit of a non-issue, the kid just needs games, games and more games. He will learn so much from each experience. It's gonna be a long journey like it is for all big key forwards. Like others have said, compare his debut to other key forwards and you will see pretty much none set the world on fire. Maybe make a thread like this after a season where one can see a clear pattern emerging of mismanagement, not after one game where he came in late as an emergency.

Really hope now they play him this week let him know early .
Rest Reiwoldt was mind blowing dumb decision to let him to do warm up .
Nick is always going to put his hand up to play , we are not going to play finals was dumb to the long term
Same with Montagna should have not played round 1 , medical have to show some balls especially given
Development is the key word , play only fit guys .
Rest Lonie this week look after the kids long season.

 

[sonnywalters]

I was happy with his debut to be honest.
He kept getting in the right positions which is over half the game.
I noticed he had taped his fingers together- maybe he cant mark with tape on his fingers?
Either way - he showed good signs to me.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Paddy did get into good positions and have a couple of decent follow up efforts, but the rest of his game was absolutely shocking. He had 6 clangers from 9 disposals and dropped at least 3 uncontested marks. By no means am I saying he's no good, but he's nowhere near ready. He looked slow and nervous all day and after the first half Collingwood weren't bothering to defend him closely. I'm not blaming Paddy at all, he needs time in the VFL to get his fitness and confidence up; I think the club made a mistake by playing him ahead of Hickey, Lee and White. While I'm all for supporting the young players, fans saying that he had a good debut are kidding themselves. He dropped uncontested marks, was beaten in the air and turned the ball over to Collingwood with 6 of his 9 possessions. But he's a teenage full forward who was never going to be ready by now. If Riewoldt is out then there is a chance that he Paddy could keep his spot, but I'd much rather see one of the older talls come in. We need to see if Lee and White are worth keeping around, we don't need throw a guy who has just turned 19 to the wolves when he's not ready.

 

[Mowman]

Watching Hawks & Dogs game, I hope Paddy 13 game is as good as Boyd 13 game, I think he has shown plenty today Dogs supporters should be happy

 

[sonnywalters]

When I said happy with his debut - I mean that in the context.
I agree hes not ready yet and shouldnt be rushed into the side this year.

Id much rather see White get games this year and then next year if we dont draft Schache and we go for a midfielder then we should draft Mitch Brown as a transition player.

I'd also like to see Lee in defence in the AFL - I have written him off as an AFL fwd and with Bruce going fwd - we need to look at replacements for Fisher and Dempster asap.

 

[Big Mart]

I can pretty accurately assess Nate Fyfe as elite... He's only 23
I will also predict he will become One of the greats

And yes
For most (exceptions as always) players are best judged after 50 games

 

[Mat Mann]

Ike, surely you are taking the piss with this thread? You have absolutely NO IDEA what is going on with Patty, you aren't involved in the inner sanctum, you aren't there 6 days per week, what an insult to our full time professional coaches and staff.

enlighten us then please, I think most here think it was the wrong time, wrong game, wrong build up, surely your inner sanctum knowledge would dispel the fears many of us share with Paddy's debut this game

I can't believe hacks are even being negative about his debut. Anyone that expected much more in those circumstances must have rocks in their heads.

Hilarious to be honest.

don't think many are blaming him or even having a go, an over-reaction imo

 

[sauce_head]

Hey, he's no Jack Watts (mark dropping).

And I'm not sure if it was serious or not but one of the Sunday footy shows said he has so little notice he didn't get to wear his lucky jocks in time but played anyway. Now that is commitment!
Luckily he got them at half time and wet from zero to 9 possessions.

I think we all noticed the improvement!

 

[ike2112]

Ike, surely you are taking the piss with this thread? You have absolutely NO IDEA what is going on with Patty, you aren't involved in the inner sanctum, you aren't there 6 days per week, what an insult to our full time professional coaches and staff.

Of course, I forgot that even though half of your prophecies turn out to be incorrect, and you rarely base your statements on factual evidence, you ARE the inner sanctum, and this decision to play Paddy was run past yourself beforehand.
I actually appreciate your informative contributions on this forum, but I have no idea why at other times you choose to take a militant stance to shooting down other people's views?

I guess staff never make mistakes?

Richo and others have already said, he wasn't ready.

White's development isn't going very well - is that the same staff? He was injured as it turns out, but I'd make a pretty big bet they would have still named Paddy as emg instead of White. If they had known Roo was out definitely, and on Thursday were picking a starter, I think they would have named Lee and not Paddy. Richo and others more or less admitted that how the situation turned out, was not ideal. A lack of foresight in terms of what could have happened by not having any other tall cover.
Another question - what would we have done if Fisher went down during warmup - play Bruce at the back, and have Paddy lead the line on his own in his first game?...

The other thing on my mind, is that with both Lee and White, attitude has been mentioned by coaches either in preseason or in Sandy reviews. I believe that's why they perhaps don't get elevated at times; as they don't quite deserve it and/or it would set a poor precedent. But we need to know by August if either of them are up to it - I've never been a fan of either personally, but I want to see them play and ideally be proven wrong.

I have sat and watched and chuckled at other clubs making errors in development of players, and I would just rather we stayed the course and didn't get impatient with ours. We are on a sloooow build. In the offseason there were a lot of comments about "speeding up the rebuild". Not for me - take our time, leave Paddy to play VFL, let JB find his way too and don't force him into MF, don't have people playing through injuries.

 

[Speck]

You could tell the kid was nervous as hell dropping those marks but when the ball hit the ground and his instinct kicked in he was very good. Once he loses those nerves he will be much much better for sure.