Development of junior batsmen

Mofra

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Is it a worry that Lyon had to do some work with his bro during the off-season to improve his batting?

What if our other players don't have brothers?
Maybe you've nailed it - Husseys, Waughs, Chappells - we need to find guys with brothers (lord knows we've given the Marshes every opportunity).

Kind of leaves us in a tough spot with Khawarja though...
 

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big_e

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I'd be interested to know what the equivalent figure of new baggy greens was in the decade preceding 2000. Let's call it 1989 to 1999. 2000 is 2007 was an uncommonly strong era for Australian cricket, so possibly any other era looks large by comparison in terms of debutants.

58 in 11 years is still extraordinary though.
Just had another look at the stats - average number of tests played by players who made their debut in a certain decade. The thinking is this will show how many of those selected play a lot (ie are any good):

2010s: 16 tests
2000s: 25.5
1990s: 42.3
1980s: 27.6
1970s: 20.3
1960s: 22.5
1950s: 18.9
1940s: 21.2
1930s: 8.7
1920s: 17.2
1910s: 2.8
1900s: 18.3
1890s: 16.8
1880s: 7.1
1870s: 10

Really anything before the 60s or 70s should be ignored, but it shows again how few have kicked on.
 

Doss

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Just had another look at the stats - average number of tests played by players who made their debut in a certain decade. The thinking is this will show how many of those selected play a lot (ie are any good):

2010s: 16 tests
2000s: 25.5
1990s: 42.3
1980s: 27.6
1970s: 20.3
1960s: 22.5
1950s: 18.9
1940s: 21.2
1930s: 8.7
1920s: 17.2
1910s: 2.8
1900s: 18.3
1890s: 16.8
1880s: 7.1
1870s: 10

Really anything before the 60s or 70s should be ignored, but it shows again how few have kicked on.
Good stuff again. It's interesting to compare the 1980s figure with the 2010s; similar level of chaos in terms of the revolving door of players selected itself, but an average of almost 28 Tests against 16 (granted this is not yet a complete picture because many of those will play more Tests) kind of points to a shallower pool of talent coming through.
 

gordo2016

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I heard a comment today that in India they don't allow their younger players to play T20 cricket. If that's so, it certainly has to tell us something.
Their younger players are allowed to play T20 cricket, as long as it is in India. They are not allowed overseas to play it.
 

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Not sure if it’s already been mentioned but Victoria this year introduced the youth premier league to replace the pathways system. All under 18 matches are T20s while at under 14s and under 16s are a mix of T20s and one dayers
 
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Their younger players are allowed to play T20 cricket, as long as it is in India. They are not allowed overseas to play it.
No, he's talking about the youth system. Aakash Chopra mentioned that there are no u15, u19 or u23 T20 competitions.

The BCCI ban on Indian cricketers playing T20 overseas is unrelated.
 

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western royboy

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Not sure if it’s already been mentioned but Victoria this year introduced the youth premier league to replace the pathways system. All under 18 matches are T20s while at under 14s and under 16s are a mix of T20s and one dayers
Yep & all sides consist largely of bigger kids who can hit the boundary on the leg side - it’s not rocket science
 

Doss

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Not sure if it’s already been mentioned but Victoria this year introduced the youth premier league to replace the pathways system. All under 18 matches are T20s while at under 14s and under 16s are a mix of T20s and one dayers
I might be not understanding this properly, but are you saying there at U18 level in this 'youth premier league', there is nothing other than T20?

That appears to be what you're saying here, and I'm asking for clarification because if that is really the case, it is so obviously such a terrible idea that it makes me almost incandescent with rage.
 

baz_machine

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I might be not understanding this properly, but are you saying there at U18 level in this 'youth premier league', there is nothing other than T20?

That appears to be what you're saying here, and I'm asking for clarification because if that is really the case, it is so obviously such a terrible idea that it makes me almost incandescent with rage.
Rage away Doss

https://www.cricketvictoria.com.au/cricket-victoria-launches-youth-premier-league/

"The Under-18 men’s competition will exclusively play T20 fixtures and act as a feeder for Premier Cricket T20 competition and future Big Bash talent pools"

At least the Big Bash standard will be better
 

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Those week long representative cricket carnivals seem to be getting shortened across the board. National junior carnivals are all one dayers.

There's always two elements to the carnivals:
1) Talent ID - choosing state teams or national teams or squads or whatever at the end of them
2) Development - playing cricket against other good cricketers and testing yourself

I think the latter is coming a distant second to the former in the minds of CA and other cricket authorities. From a talent ID perspective, one dayers are easier. You see the players bat/bowl more often. Selectors can go to a game and be guaranteed to see all the batters/bowlers from each team. Tick that off - move onto two more teams tomorrow.

If a 'gun' misses out or cops a rough decision, he'll get a hit tomorrow.

Two dayers (or 3 or 4 dayers) are harder.

At the youngest levels when kids are giving the game a try, I'm all for shorter games, smaller numbers on a team, fast, fun, exciting, everyone gets a turn etc.

But once it gets up to any sort of representative level we're dealing with kids who are already sold on the game. They love cricket and want to take it further.

One advantage cricket has over other sports is that every state has SIX WEEKS of school holidays crash bang in the middle of our season.

Cram it full of cricket competitions. Cheap baby sitting for parents. Start in the early morning to beat the heat.

Have a week of T20 games. Have a week of 40 over one dayers. Have a week with 2 x 80 over two day matches. Have a four day game to finish.
 

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Richard Hinds seems to think that the junior system that produced our current crop of batsmen is only two years old.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01...stralia-cricket-failings-not-juniors/10688162
Possibly the new format and it's slightly misguided because the 4 over block certainly existed when I played U12s more than 20 years ago (4 overs with your batting/bowling partner).

It is a fair question to ask though, is the junior system really to blame? I think the pathway system has to share a fair portion of the blame, because it's attempted to fast-track potential, rather than reward proven applicable of ability. It's nearly as bad as the pathways in the Australian football/soccer competitions. Kids are scouted, approached by representatives of grade NFL teams and then asked to trial. If they're successful, the parents have to shell out thousands per year in fees just for their kid to play in grade 3/4 NFL, which is really just a step above standard club.

A lot of that system is geared towards club maximising their revenue, while there's a degree of nurturing talent. Representative teams in AFL are far different, it's geared towards recognition as early as possible, realisation of talent as early as possible, and then nurturing of talent for as long as possible. The mindset is completely different, it's less about the money and more about the prestige. It's why the TAC has always been a good indicator for a footballer's potential, with players typically succeeding in greater numbers than failing.

Pathway systems that promote talent and potential on a fast track system, are inevitably set up to fail. When those fast-track systems promote shorter forms of cricket to try to maximise the exposure the kids have, it tends to weaken techniques and mental fortitude, as the goal for players is often score harder and faster, rather than the long game. The BBL isn't the main cause of the batting depth crisis in Australia, it's just the final stage in a flawed development system.

When promoted players return to grade and club cricket, they often do so with bigger holes in their games than they had previously. While quality of coaching can certainly be improved as well as consistency, if kids are going to be fast tracked, they have to stay in the system, essentially as another league.
 

Caesar

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No at junior level it is all long form cricket, no limited overs and no forced retirements
Whilst I agree this is good in theory for developing professional unlimited-overs batsmen, I wonder how many Australian kids would be willing to play cricket under these circumstances (and how many of their parents would be keen to support them).

Participation rates matter a lot more than people in this thread seem to think. Talent can't emerge and develop if there's nobody to play with.
 

TigerCraig

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Whilst I agree this is good in theory for developing professional unlimited-overs batsmen, I wonder how many Australian kids would be willing to play cricket under these circumstances (and how many of their parents would be keen to support them).

Participation rates matter a lot more than people in this thread seem to think. Talent can't emerge and develop if there's nobody to play with.
Agree, but no reason you cant have both. Div 1 in an age group play proper cricket. Div 2 play modified.
 
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